Don’t Believe Anything Iain MacIntyre Tells You

[stawns]

5 hours ago, Down by the River said:

Media, in this case MacIntyre, misrepresented (IMO) the beliefs of a large chunk of the fanbase instead of making the easy argument: the small but loud and persistent group of dimwits that make criticizing the fanbase an easy target. 

 

It is very easy to mistake prevalence for frequency, and MacIntyre has fallen into this trap, and in turn, made a very stupid statement. 

I think you're mistaking who the larger of the two crowds and the noisier of the two really is.

[189lb enforcers?]

Looks like he is effective at doing exactly what he, and none of us, are paid to do. 

Mission accomplished, says his boss. 

[hearditall]

"3. Come trade deadline, we will be close enough to a playoff spot that Benning doesn't even consider touching any of his pending UFA's. Instead he gives up his 2nd and possibly more for another average RFA with a high a eye test score and low possession numbers. 

 

4. WD will scramble and bury young players deep into the bench. He will grossly overplay the Sedin's and LE to the point of collapse. By the end of the season WD will be in shambles. Falling short of the playoffs and stalling the development of players like Guance and Tryamkin. 

 

Let the dark ages begin."

 

 

 

OR THIS GUY ^...

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Western Red said:

Man I wish I was thinking as clearly as you. Great points.

 

But uhh, there are injuries and illnesses rampantly circulating the dressing room... Ya no sane fan is going to be up in arms about how our season has went.

 

I would be up in arms if we didn't have a look at what we have. INCLUDING SUBBAN. If it's true and WD coaches not to lose... he's already lost.

Western, this is a Canucks Army article by Jackson McDonald.  Full of holes frankly.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I do find Iain to be a bit pretentious, but it could just be the extra "i" in his name.  He's the voice of the "fan" that tells me to stop yelling and sit down the odd times I get to a live game.

[YummyCakeFace]

Nice half effort in the offensive zone by Daniel leads to a breakdown in the D zone. Goal Pittsburgh 

[Barry_Wilkins]

On 3/11/2017 at 8:20 AM, stawns said:

Guaranteed the same tools on this board screaming about a rebuild will turn on the kids the second they show their inexperience.

Yes, then it will be, "we gave up Hansen for Goldolbin? We could have had a 1st and ___ instead!?"

 

The rebuild (not retool) is most likely gonna be a long one. Expect pain. Prepare for it with patience.

[Barry_Wilkins]

On 3/11/2017 at 11:14 AM, xereau said:

'Journalists' reporting (sh*tting) on other journalists, is the lowest of the low.

Why? CDCers b!tch and moan about Canucks' journalists in an endless numer of self-righteous posts. Very few people outside this community knows or cares about those opinions.

 

A journalist with a greater general readership, however, can more incisive counter-opinions to greater effect. I want those initial journalists (MacIntyre, in this case) to be held accountable. It certainly isn't gonna be by instantly discredited, illiterate, hyper-reactive toddlers on CDC.

[Nuxfanabroad]

HA! I Mac is referencing this derisive article in today's Sun..wouldn't surprise me if he scrolls this site, as a barometer.

 

He devolves into existential-angst, & the like. Hey I Mac, we all got the same worries & stresses, mate. Don't be navel-gazing, publicly in the Sun,,it's not about YOU. If we were winnin', no one gives a crap who writes what!

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

HA! I Mac is referencing this derisive article in today's Sun..wouldn't surprise me if he scrolls this site, as a barometer.

 

He devolves into existential-angst, & the like. Hey I Mac, we all got the same worries & stresses, mate. Don't be navel-gazing, publicly in the Sun,,it's not about YOU. If we were winnin', no one gives a crap who writes what!

I think the timing of the article, the same week as another round of layoffs at the Sun/Province got to I-Mac.  It just speaks to the level of writing going on at Canucks Army.  It's really bush league.

 

MacIntyre takes a different position than much of the other media.  It differentiates him from them.  If everybody wrote from the same point of view then they would all be writing the same sorts of articles.  If you're doing the same as everybody else, then you're more likely to be seen as expendable by the powers that be.  Cudo's to MacIntyre for taking a less popular route.  I appreciate him for trying to take a positive view (and he's far from all positive) because I find myself drawn that way on CDC but it's only in response to so much negativity.  I think it's easier to be negative.  It's hard to understand just what Jim Benning is up to.  Nobody is privy to what goes on behind closed doors.  It's like the proverbial black box.  We can only shake it and try to figure out what's going on inside.

[RU SERIOUS]

23 hours ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

I'm enjoying reading posts defending MacIntyre by the same posters that consistently trash the local media.   Seems to be the same group that also spend considerable resources, trashing other posters.  Conclusion - anyone who does not agree with them has to be not only wrong, but delusional. 

 

Me thinks Thou dost protest too much.   

 

 

You just described TRUMP supporters perfectly!

[RU SERIOUS]

Once Uncle Wille is fired in 28 days,  10 hours and 42 minutes, the Canucks organization should turn the page and fire all of their scouts who have an almost perfect record of failing us for 45 years, then take the hatchet to the 2 John "Home boys" announcers and then Ian.   Management need to get rid of the "STALE" image of this team and have to start soon before there are few fans left!

[stawns]

10 hours ago, Barry_Wilkins said:

Yes, then it will be, "we gave up Hansen for Goldolbin? We could have had a 1st and ___ instead!?"

 

The rebuild (not retool) is most likely gonna be a long one. Expect pain. Prepare for it with patience.

The rebuild is close to done, now the painful process of growing is going to begin

[garthsbutcher]

On March 11, 2017 at 6:01 AM, Rocksterh8 said:

Don’t Believe Anything Iain MacIntyre Tells You About The Canucks And Rebuilding

MARCH 10, 2017, 4:20 PM | JACKSON MCDONALD

Iain MacIntyre was on Team 1040’s morning show yesterday to discuss the team’s direction and the job Willie Desjardins has done as head coach. MacIntyre provided about six minutes of analysis, but it was an early exchange that caught my ear and struck me as a bit misguided:

Iain MacIntyre: “The one thing that I’ll say, that I think is unfair about criticism of the hockey team generally is that it seems often now people are advocating… that the priority needs to be on development and bringing kids along and making the team younger… and yet they’re outraged and hyper-critical when the team loses.” 

Don Taylor: “There you go. That’s well said.” 

IM: “You can’t have everything. You can have one or the other. If people think that the young players are already better than the experienced players I’m afraid that’s just not reality. Older players, even ones that might be considered journeymen, or pedestrian, or depth players in the NHL, if they’ve been around they still have more know-how, they have more trade craft than younger players who have, granted, perhaps more talent, and certainly more potential, but haven’t learned to play the game.”

There’s a lot to chew on here, so I’ll deconstruct this point by point.

It seems often now people are advocating… that the priority needs to be on development and bringing kids along and making the team younger… and yet they’re outraged and hyper-critical when the team loses.  

This is perhaps the greatest misconception to plague the Vancouver hockey media over the past three seasons, and to be fair, this isn’t unique to Iain MacIntyre in the slightest. He’s just the most recent example. The purpose isn’t to put him on blast, but rather to finally put a group of misconceptions that have permeated the local media to bed.

What MacIntyre is completely failing to understand here, as others have before him, is the distinction between criticism of process and criticism of results. I don’t claim to have insight into the thoughts and feelings of every Canucks fan, but the majority of the criticism I’ve seen and the majority of which we’ve published in this space and others like it, has very little to do with the fact that the Canucks are losing, and much more to do with how they’re losing.

They’ve been raked over the coals for playing boring, low-event hockey, for doling out undeserved ice time to marginal players, or for scratching promising youngsters, but they’ve rarely been criticized simply for failing to close out games.

You can’t have everything. You can have one or the other. 

This was the highlight of MacIntyre’s radio hit for me. It’s funny to see one of management’s biggest defenders in this market suggest that the team can’t have it both ways considering having it both ways has been their stated goal from day one. It’s even funnier in the context of the rest of the interview, where IMac goes on to defend the Canucks’ attempts to be competitive and rebuild at the same time, something he just said doesn’t work. Hmm…

In this instance, IMac has provided us with a classic example of moving the goal posts. The message from the outset from this management group has been that they could compete for the playoffs, and that a winning environment will help the development of their young players. There have been many people in this market that disagree with that direction, but it only seems fair to judge the team based on the criteria they themselves have established.

If people think that the young players are already better than the experienced players I’m afraid that’s just not reality. 

It’s difficult to know what players IMac is talking about specifically, but at face value this couldn’t be further from the truth. In general, this line of thinking is extremely flawed from the outset, as it can be used to imply that experience makes Paul Gaustad a better forward than Auston Matthews. That’s likely distorting MacIntyre’s point, but his assertion doesn’t ring any more true when applied to the Canucks. This season, only three Canucks’ players produced offense at a top-six clip: Bo Horvat, Jannik Hansen, and Sven Baertschi. Those players rank 5th, 7th, and 8th among Canucks forwards in TOI/GP, respectively. So, the idea that ice time has been divvied up in a manner befitting a meritocracy doesn’t exactly hold water. Even Hansen, one of the team’s most established players prior to the trade to the San Jose Sharks, wasn’t being used to his full potential at even-strength, and certainly not on the power play.

Older players, even ones that might be considered journeymen, or pedestrian, or depth players in the NHL, if they’ve been around they still have more know-how, they have more trade craft than younger players who have, granted, perhaps more talent, and certainly more potential, but haven’t learned to play the game.”

Given what MacIntyre says immediately following his claim that the Canucks’ veterans are still better options than the team’s youth, it’s likely he’s actually referring to less established players like Nikolay Goldobin and Reid Boucher. That doesn’t make MacIntyre’s claims any less ridiculous, though. While players like Brandon Sutter and Jayson Megna may have the edge over these players in terms of experience, that experience isn’t driving results. They’re among the team’s worst forwards by both offensive and defensive metrics, whereas Boucher’s numbers have been positively glistening, albeit over a small sample. Goldobin is still an unknown commodity for the most part, and carries a reputation for poor defensive play, but he at least provides the team with some form of tangible value, which is more than can be said for some players in the team’s lineup.

I think I speak for most fans when I say that frankly I’m sick and tired hearing that this team has to fight tooth and nail to finish 20th overall because the market won’t support a team that finishes 30th overall. Clearly, this market can’t stand the thought of a rebuild, right? I assume that’s why the trades for Jonathan Dahlen and Nikolay Goldobin, transactions that clearly substituted short-term pain for long-term gain, where met with almost unanimous approval by the fanbase? And why the moves the team has made with it’s eye on the present day have been much less well-received?

Anyone who suggests this market isn’t accustomed to losing needs a serious history lesson, not only regarding the past three years, but also the majority of the thirty or so that preceded the West Coast Express Era. What’s made the Canucks’ recent run of awful play so unpalatable hasn’t been the losses themselves, but the amount of assets, money, and effort that’s been poured into putting lipstick on this pig. Brandon Sutter, Erik Gudbranson, Loui Eriksson… those aren’t transactions that were made with the intention of making the team’s future brighter. They were made for the express purpose of improving the team in the here and now. From that standpoint, they failed spectacularly.

To his credit, IMac does have enough sense to see that the team’s young players have more talent and potential than their older counterparts. They just have to learn to play the game. From where I stand, it would seem that the easiest way to learn to play would be for those players to get as many reps as possible while the games don’t mean anything, rather than by sitting in favour of players that won’t be here next season.

Maybe that’s unfair criticism. You can’t have it both ways. Unless you’re the Canucks from six months ago, apparently.

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I'm nauseous 

[CanadianRugby]

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:20 AM, stawns said:

Guaranteed the same tools on this board screaming about a rebuild will turn on the kids the second they show their inexperience.

Guaranteed your guarantee is baseless and worthless.  Give the kids ice time, trade for more picks at the draft.  The more prospects, the easier losing seasons are to stomach.

 

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Wilbur said:

It'll be because the kids aren't "elite" enough.  Gotta have those top 3 picks y'know.

7 out of last 8 Stanley Cup Champions were led there (in part) by top 3 picks.  It is nearly impossible to aquire franchise players outside the draft, those players tend to go top 3.  

 

Not sure why you mock top draft picks.  

[Team Bagues]

14 hours ago, Raymond Luxury Yacht said:

I do find Iain to be a bit pretentious, but it could just be the extra "i" in his name.  He's the voice of the "fan" that tells me to stop yelling and sit down the odd times I get to a live game.

I have met Iain and sat down with him for a couple of hours at the rink.

Based off of my time with him I would say he is anything but pretentious.

Very humble and knowledgeable about the team. He had balanced and open perspective.

He has been around the team for a very, very long time.

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

The rebuild is close to done, now the painful process of growing is going to begin

Until there is a legit elite level first line in place..the rebuild is nowhere near done..IMO...We're starting to accumulate prospects,hopefully some will surprise and overachieve (like Horvat).

[ilduce39]

Im not sure what iMacs was really going for, but I've noticed that if a team is bad someone is going to complain about everything you do.

 

Every single non-scorched earth rebuild move (ice time, trades, signings, who you draft, who you trade for, coaching decisions) if it's not trading for a draft pick, it's getting crapped on.  If it's not the youngest players on the roster getting the most ice time, someone is complaining.

 

But on the other hand, when the team performs poorly on the ice, the complaints shower down using poor performance to get rid of everyone and every thing.  "The team sucks rabble rabble trade everyone then fire everyone rabble rabble"

 

Meanwhile, the team is getting younger by the second, young players are improving and contributing more and more every day AND we're on pace for another very high draft pick, with the potential for two firsts and two seconds.  

 

Dahlen just scored 5 points in a game, Demko has morphed into a brick wall and even JAKE is putting up points on a Utica stretch run to the playoffs.  

 

So, I don't blame iMac for highlighting the sunnier side now and then... And Jackson McDonald can go back to making passive aggressive little quips to people who don't agree with him in the comments section.

[Honky Cat]

I believe this is iMacs reply to the blog:

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/macintyres-thoughts-cannibal-media-the-analytics-altar-and-a-game-of-poetry

[CeeBee51]

7 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

I believe this is iMacs reply to the blog:

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/macintyres-thoughts-cannibal-media-the-analytics-altar-and-a-game-of-poetry

Thanks HC.  Good read. I guess these days everybody is an expert for good or for bad. Sometimes I ,miss the dark ages.