[Proposal] Balanced Scoring & Sandpaper!

[EdgarM]

I think its all about balance and we have seen what happens when this team goes out of balance. . Giving away our 2 best dmen(Tanev/Edler) is asking for major trouble.

Stay the course. We are doing fine the way we are going. Slow and steady and rely on JB. He kind of knows what he is doing.

[Angry Goose]

anyone that has schaller in the line up over motte is insane.

 

also ferland is someone worth targeting in FA

[Uber Dave]

Thanks for the greating's!

There are some very knowledgeable fans here.

Great suggestions all..!

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Uber Dave said:

After Boeser's valiant, but feeble, attempt to send a message to Tampa Bay by fighting from his butt, we need to really consider protecting these assets that can so easily embarrass other teams. (Petey/ Boes) and move some other assets for picks in the upcoming draft.

 

Baer - Horvat - Goldy

Boes - Petey - JV18

Leivo - Gaude - Loui

Schaller - Beags - Rouss

 

Fire Sale for picks:

Motte, Sutter, Grandlund, Nilsson, Del Zotto, Puliot, Edler, Tanev, 

 

I'd keep Motte (and Granlund FTM) over Schaller and I'd trade Edler (assuming he waives) and gladly re-sign him in July for +/- 2 years.

 

Tanev, Sutter I'd certainly entertain moving but only if the return is there. And we've got time to move them next year as well, should we choose.

[Uber Dave]

48 minutes ago, gameburn said:

Woo and Juolevi look better than Brisebois, imo; and Tryamkin might be available.   ON PAPER, lol, these guys along with Hughes can replace Edler, Tanev and Biega.   Hughes won't "defend" like Edler or even Tanev.  And he won't even be as physical as Stecher, let alone Biega or Gudbranson.   He will defend like Orr, Housley and Leetch did: using brains, skating ability and the fact that he'll have the puck a lot of the time himself.  Whether he can defend sufficiently will be seen soon enough.  I would love to refer to a contemporary defenseman who can defend like Orr and Housley did, but none come to mind.  (Ellis in Nashville?  Subban? Not sure.) 

 

Like you, I would still rather keep one of Edler and Tanev, to play it safe. You have to admit though: wouldn't it be nice to get a return on one of these guys rather than end up in a Hamhuis situation? 

 

A tough physical player who would happily defend Pettersson, Boeser and now Hughes could probably be picked up in free agency.  Or drafted perhaps, although that would be slower.  Ryan Reeves comes to mind... maybe a D man who plays 10 minutes a game but is a huge physical force/fighter.  I don't even know where we would find one.  Worth trying though.

Some strong arguments for sure!. Hughes after his fight the other day said he throws down with Brady Tkachuk! He's tough! He said its part of his game but he wears a cage in college! Woo is tough. Tryamkin is tough. I think we'll be ok there. However, I am suggestion a bit more of a depletion to advance this draft. We are close to being a complete team. That includes depth. Players that can come up and compete, not just fill space. I think we need several more skilled players in the minors; young D men specifically. 

And...now is the highest value will may get for Tan Man, Edler etc. Your point about the Hamuis situation is exactly why I would force our hand now. They have value and are in demand. We are a rebuilding team. Our defence are coming up. Hughes this year. Jiolevi next etc...

[mll]

8 minutes ago, Uber Dave said:

Some strong arguments for sure!. Hughes after his fight the other day said he throws down with Brady Tkachuk! He's tough! He said its part of his game but he wears a cage in college! Woo is tough. Tryamkin is tough. I think we'll be ok there. However, I am suggestion a bit more of a depletion to advance this draft. We are close to being a complete team. That includes depth. Players that can come up and compete, not just fill space. I think we need several more skilled players in the minors; young D men specifically. 

And...now is the highest value will may get for Tan Man, Edler etc. Your point about the Hamuis situation is exactly why I would force our hand now. They have value and are in demand. We are a rebuilding team. Our defence are coming up. Hughes this year. Jiolevi next etc...

Juolevi only has 2 month more of experience to where he was last year.  His surgery sets his timeline back.  Coach Agnew in Utica thinks that he is behind Brisebois, Sautner and  Chatfield in terms of NHL readiness.  He talks about how he needs to learn how to play at AHL pace before being able to take the next step and he also has to work on his defensive game.  

 

[gameburn]

8 minutes ago, Uber Dave said:

Some strong arguments for sure!. Hughes after his fight the other day said he throws down with Brady Tkachuk! He's tough! He said its part of his game but he wears a cage in college! Woo is tough. Tryamkin is tough. I think we'll be ok there. However, I am suggestion a bit more of a depletion to advance this draft. We are close to being a complete team. That includes depth. Players that can come up and compete, not just fill space. I think we need several more skilled players in the minors; young D men specifically. 

And...now is the highest value will may get for Tan Man, Edler etc. Your point about the Hamuis situation is exactly why I would force our hand now. They have value and are in demand. We are a rebuilding team. Our defence are coming up. Hughes this year. Jiolevi next etc...

Yes, if we're not competing for a cup this year (or playoffs even) then you are probably right:  it is a good time to move some vets before they lose value.

Besides, until they get a different kind of bargaining agreement, you just can't have enough young guys/prospects.

[gameburn]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Juolevi only has 2 month more of experience to where he was last year.  His surgery sets his timeline back.  Coach Agnew in Utica thinks that he is behind Brisebois, Sautner and  Chatfield in terms of NHL readiness.  He talks about how he needs to learn how to play at AHL pace before being able to take the next step and he also has to work on his defensive game.  

 

I hadn't seen these comments before.  You may be right, then: Brisebois and Chatfield sooner rather than later.  Draft position isn't everything, is what you are saying. 

Juolevi has been injured a lot.  Knees, back, something else too, can't remember.  Might make him more hesitant, less confident too.

[gameburn]

3 hours ago, hammertime said:

If it's me and we are playing a playoff series and not making a single move which is highly doubtful. I'm going with....

 

Levio Pete Boeser

Goldy Bo Virtanen

Baertschi Sutter Loui

Granlund Beagle Archi

 

And Motte as 13th forward?  It would be a difficult lineup to play against, regardless.  Although Goldobin plays well with Pettersson, I see what you are getting at: some toughness and puck retrieval on every line.  Archibald and Virtanen would have a field day in the playoffs. 

[PuckFather]

5 hours ago, Uber Dave said:

After Boeser's valiant, but feeble, attempt to send a message to Tampa Bay by fighting from his butt, we need to really consider protecting these assets that can so easily embarrass other teams. (Petey/ Boes) and move some other assets for picks in the upcoming draft.

 

Baer - Horvat - Goldy

Boes - Petey - JV18

Leivo - Gaude - Loui

Schaller - Beags - Rouss

 

Fire Sale for picks:

Motte, Sutter, Grandlund, Nilsson, Del Zotto, Puliot, Edler, Tanev, 

A poster who's not even aware Edler has a NM clause, that Grandlund is helping the team in penalty kill & chipping in a few goals, that Motte kills his arse off every game...

5 hours ago, Uber Dave said:

 

 

[Johnny Torts]

There are many on this forum that do not value Tanev, Edler, Sutter nearly as much as a NHL GM. Sutter for one, is a gamer 3C but I do NOT think we should get rid of any of these guys. 

 

Our boys go out there and try every night and are performing well when healthy and depending on the day scratches get their opportunities. Are we going to tear their hearts out from team when we shift our focus from believing in them to getting rid of key teammates? 

 

Im sorry, you get rid of Tanev and Edler, you aren’t just looking at the possibility of our team crumbling, but guys like Petey and Jake and Bo and Brock losing their mojo because of the lack of defensive stability leading to lost games, in some cases, before they even begin. Who knows maybe Leivo keeps this up for the rest of his career and Goldy starts to turn the puck over less.

 

And thats Torts monthly rant merry Christmas and happy new year folks! 

[Crabcakes]

6 hours ago, Uber Dave said:

After Boeser's valiant, but feeble, attempt to send a message to Tampa Bay by fighting from his butt, we need to really consider protecting these assets that can so easily embarrass other teams. (Petey/ Boes) and move some other assets for picks in the upcoming draft.

 

Baer - Horvat - Goldy

Boes - Petey - JV18

Leivo - Gaude - Loui

Schaller - Beags - Rouss

 

Fire Sale for picks:

Motte, Sutter, Grandlund, Nilsson, Del Zotto, Puliot, Edler, Tanev, 

 

Sutter is an awesome piece and we know that Benning thinks this too.  He's a solid 3C matchup and pk specialist who wins better than 50% of his face offs.  He can play up and down the line up as opposed to Beagle who brings a similar skill set but begins to look out of his depth at 3C.  Don't get me wrong, I like Beagle but his use is limited.  I am looking forward to seeing if Bennings plan for Sutter, Beagle, Petey and Horvat down the middle works as well as hoped.

 

Motte is a keeper and Granny is a Swiss Army knife, not great but a very nice piece to have.  We have seen this through November when there were so many key injuries and the team lost most games but never unraveled like they did last year.

 

I really don't think the Canucks are in a position to sell off Edler or Tanev either unless the return is really really good.

 

You're right about Boeser.  If that guys lid stayed on, maybe Boeser could have hung on but we really don't need our skilled guys getting in dust ups and breaking their hands.  Schaller was supposed to bring some sandpaper (not like Dorsett but some) and he is a massive disappointment.  I fully expect him to be on waivers within a week or so.

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, gameburn said:

And Motte as 13th forward?  It would be a difficult lineup to play against, regardless.  Although Goldobin plays well with Pettersson, I see what you are getting at: some toughness and puck retrieval on every line.  Archibald and Virtanen would have a field day in the playoffs. 

Levio Pete Boeser Are great with o zone possesion.

Goldy Bo Virtanen are great puck rushers will be key at gaining the blueline

Baertschi Sutter Loui 200ft utility line 

Roussel Beagle Archi  Energy

Extra fwds Granlund Motte

 

Realistically though all this group will do is put up a valiant struggle while a legit playoff team cruises over us on their way to round 2

[Topcheeze86]

Thank god your not the gm just package out our top 2 d and expect hutty to mentor hughes hmm id honestly rather just sign edler another 2 years and flip tanev for a d prospect or 2nd 

[cyoung]

22 minutes ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Thank god your not the gm just package out our top 2 d and expect hutty to mentor hughes hmm id honestly rather just sign edler another 2 years and flip tanev for a d prospect or 2nd 

Your picture is how I feel about this thread.

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, gameburn said:

Woo and Juolevi look better than Brisebois, imo; and Tryamkin might be available.   ON PAPER, lol, these guys along with Hughes can replace Edler, Tanev and Biega.   Hughes won't "defend" like Edler or even Tanev.  And he won't even be as physical as Stecher, let alone Biega or Gudbranson.   He will defend like Orr, Housley and Leetch did: using brains, skating ability and the fact that he'll have the puck a lot of the time himself.  Whether he can defend sufficiently will be seen soon enough.  I would love to refer to a contemporary defenseman who can defend like Orr and Housley did, but none come to mind.  (Ellis in Nashville?  Subban? Not sure.) 

Long term projection and development for them to achieve their full potential is what makes Juolevi and Woo look better than Brisebois. Brisebois is much more likely to help us out next season and even that is a bit of a long shot at this point. Whatever the case, none of these players are going to replace what Edler and Tanev provide this year or even next year, so the idea of moving them and having them replaced by these prospects having them "on paper" take over could be a step back in our rebuild. Hughes looks good and certainly provides something different that our defense doesn't have, but he will also be a rookie and will make mistakes, so it is ideal to have guys like Edler and Tanev helping shelter him until he gets those kinks out of his game which likely will take more than a year or two. Also, Tryamkin won't be here for at least one more season as well.

 

Quote

Like you, I would still rather keep one of Edler and Tanev, to play it safe. You have to admit though: wouldn't it be nice to get a return on one of these guys rather than end up in a Hamhuis situation? 

We had a deal in place for Hamhuis and Dallas pulled the rug under us changing their offer and trying to lowball us. Benning didn't just move him out of desperation and demonstrated that he wants fair value or we will not send you a player that will help you on a playoff run. We reaped the rewards the following offseason because of this. So I don't see a concern over a Hamhuis type situation. Tanev is signed for another season and Edler seems to have full interest in re-signing back here unless he's no longer wanted here (which I can't see the Canucks feeling that way) and he's open to even being traded if management lets him know we don't see a future with him.

 

Quote

A tough physical player who would happily defend Pettersson, Boeser and now Hughes could probably be picked up in free agency.  Or drafted perhaps, although that would be slower.  Ryan Reeves comes to mind... maybe a D man who plays 10 minutes a game but is a huge physical force/fighter.  I don't even know where we would find one.  Worth trying though.

If we are looking at free agency and we are willing to pay, then Ferland would be an option that could actually play top 6 minutes. Not a heavyweight, but will add some protection and can actually be on the ice with your top players. We could sign a low minute dman, but I feel like it would be a waste of a spot in a position that you likely want players that can legitimately play in case we run into injury problems or something in a game.

[CanucksJay]

4 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

There are many on this forum that do not value Tanev, Edler, Sutter nearly as much as a NHL GM. Sutter for one, is a gamer 3C but I do NOT think we should get rid of any of these guys. 

 

Our boys go out there and try every night and are performing well when healthy and depending on the day scratches get their opportunities. Are we going to tear their hearts out from team when we shift our focus from believing in them to getting rid of key teammates? 

 

Im sorry, you get rid of Tanev and Edler, you aren’t just looking at the possibility of our team crumbling, but guys like Petey and Jake and Bo and Brock losing their mojo because of the lack of defensive stability leading to lost games, in some cases, before they even begin. Who knows maybe Leivo keeps this up for the rest of his career and Goldy starts to turn the puck over less.

 

And thats Torts monthly rant merry Christmas and happy new year folks! 

This team when healthy can run with the best in the league as evidenced in recent games against Tampa and Winnipeg. 

If we can add Hughes and Juolevi to the mix along with our first rounder this year while our young guys like horvat, Jake, petterson, Boeser, Hutton continue to develop and have most of our core vets hit their peak years (sutter, Gudbranson, Tanev) and our older guys like beagle Roussel and Edler hang on for one last kick at the can, it'll be interesting. 

I am hoping for playoff experience this season and next while hoping for a deep run in the 2021 playoffs. 

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, PuckFather said:

A poster who's not even aware Edler has a NM clause, that Grandlund is helping the team in penalty kill & chipping in a few goals, that Motte kills his arse off every game...

 

*NTC not NMC FWIW.

 

4 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

There are many on this forum that do not value Tanev, Edler, Sutter nearly as much as a NHL GM. Sutter for one, is a gamer 3C but I do NOT think we should get rid of any of these guys. 

 

Our boys go out there and try every night and are performing well when healthy and depending on the day scratches get their opportunities. Are we going to tear their hearts out from team when we shift our focus from believing in them to getting rid of key teammates? 

 

Im sorry, you get rid of Tanev and Edler, you aren’t just looking at the possibility of our team crumbling, but guys like Petey and Jake and Bo and Brock losing their mojo because of the lack of defensive stability leading to lost games, in some cases, before they even begin. Who knows maybe Leivo keeps this up for the rest of his career and Goldy starts to turn the puck over less.

 

And thats Torts monthly rant merry Christmas and happy new year folks! 

 

IMO, management has a plan in place to build towards a legit contender in a couple years. If that means some short term pain for solid pieces, I don't think they'd hesitate.

 

That said, Edler would still need to waive and I'd have zero hesitation with re-signing him for +/- 2 years, trade or no trade.

 

Tanev has another year, so unless the return is worth while, you simply hang on to him. Sutter is in a similar situation (more term).

 

I could also easily see Hughes playing right side should we move Tanev and/or we could look at filing a right D spot with Karlsson, Myers etc.

 

Next year I'd be just fine starting with something like:

 

Edler, Myers/Karlsson

Hughes, Tanev

Hutton, Gudbranson

 

Brisebois, Stecher

 

At the TDL you move Tanev and recall OJ (shifting Hughes to right side).

 

 

[10pavelbure96]

Edler is having a much better season because of the increased rolls of everyone else.  The team was asking too much of him. And tanev is a rock back there as usual.

 

Players like Edler and Tanev are invaluable. We will never get what they are worth in a trade. So I think it's best to keep them to groom juolevi, Hughes, woo, etc.

[Hindustan Smyl]

11 hours ago, Uber Dave said:

After Boeser's valiant, but feeble, attempt to send a message to Tampa Bay by fighting from his butt, we need to really consider protecting these assets that can so easily embarrass other teams. (Petey/ Boes) and move some other assets for picks in the upcoming draft.

 

Baer - Horvat - Goldy

Boes - Petey - JV18

Leivo - Gaude - Loui

Schaller - Beags - Rouss

 

Fire Sale for picks:

Motte, Sutter, Grandlund, Nilsson, Del Zotto, Puliot, Edler, Tanev, 

 

 

I’m not sure if the Canucks should move on from Sutter just yet.  While Gaudette has seen a nice improvement in his game, I think it would still be better for his game if he went back down to the A and got top lines minutes down there.   

 

We still need Sutter to ensure that our depth down the middle.  If you move Sutter for a pick, then our depth down the middle becomes very weak with even one injury.