Batmania Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 The only one laughable is your sky is falling antics. Our D is fine, we got a new coach that will help get everyone back on track. All will be fine with or without Tanev. We are no better or no worse. You're minimizing the problems this team has had. If you think simply changing the coaches is going to magically fix things you're dreaming. This team needs to not take any steps backwards. If they can't sign Tanev they need to figure something out other than Corrado. He may be fine but they can't rely on him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You're minimizing the problems this team has had. If you think simply changing the coaches is going to magically fix things you're dreaming. This team needs to not take any steps backwards. If they can't sign Tanev they need to figure something out other than Corrado. He may be fine but they can't rely on him yet. You're minimizing how much of a liability AV was. Anyone who is stupid enough to think Bieksa and Edler is a good pairing has absolutely no business coaching hockey at ANY level. Getting a real coach should help immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You're minimizing how much of a liability AV was. Anyone who is stupid enough to think Bieksa and Edler is a good pairing has absolutely no business coaching hockey at ANY level. Getting a real coach should help immensely. No I'm really not. I'm not saying the coaching staff wasn't a problem. I'm saying all the problems this team had/have don't go away because of new coaching staff. I'm not minimizing I'm putting it into perspective and saying that this club has more problems than just the coaching staff the last 2 years. New coaching staff will help, but it's not a cure all. Having to rely on Corrado would be a step back for this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Having to rely on Corrado would be a step back for this club. I don't think using our youth is a step back! I think it is a move forward if done right! That is the question, and we won't know until we try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I don't think using our youth is a step back! I think it is a move forward if done right! That is the question, and we won't know until we try! No but having to rely on a guy with a handful of games doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling going into the season. I'd rather have a guy like Alberts to rely on and see what Corrado can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70seven Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I'm not too worried. I think that Tanev needs the Canucks more than the Canucks need Tanev. Im glad theyre being patient with this and standing on their offer. Theyre are plenty of UFA/RFA players still out there, and there will be teams looking to drop salary before the season gets under way. The Canucks are keeping their options open to see what comes around. There could be another Raffi Torres type signing or Chrisitian Ehrhoff type trade found in the late offseason again. Its happened before and it could very well happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbal23 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER My Custom Lineup FORWARDS Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m) David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m) Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.600m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Bo Horvat ($1.775m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m) Hunter Shinkaruk ($1.138m) / Dale Weise ($0.750m) DEFENSEMEN Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Chris Tanev ($2.300m) Yannick Weber ($0.650m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) Frank Corrado ($0.599m) / GOALTENDERS Roberto Luongo ($5.333m) Eddie Lack ($0.750m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,165,278; BONUSES: $1,062,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $197,222 *Hunter and Bo are only used since they are highest paid prospects. 2.3 is just way over but that's the max they CAN go for Tanev, more likely to be 1.4-1.8 one way deal* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckClown Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Hope he gets offer sheeted. Would love to get a 2nd for him. Bye bye Mr. Overpayment. You're nuts. You'd give him up for player you hope reaches his potential in 5 years time? Give your head a shake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You're nuts. You'd give him up for player you hope reaches his potential in 5 years time? Give your head a shake. 2nd rounders have a decent chance of being much better than Tanev's top ceiling. Honestly he can be so easily replaced it's not even funny - Corrado will be better than him in either the upcoming season or the next. Tanev's ceiling is #4 defenseman on a decent NHL team, but on a contending team he should be the 5-7th depth defenseman - which he will be for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 2nd rounders have a decent chance of being much better than Tanev's top ceiling. Honestly he can be so easily replaced it's not even funny - Corrado will be better than him in either the upcoming season or the next. Tanev's ceiling is #4 defenseman on a decent NHL team, but on a contending team he should be the 5-7th depth defenseman - which he will be for us. Please tell me all of the 2nd rounders that have played for the Canucks in the past decade. Mason Raymond? Anyone else? No a 2nd rounder is not worth more than a young stay at home defenseman that has proven he can be relied upon to play solid minutes. Not to mention he's still showing signs of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 No but having to rely on a guy with a handful of games doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling going into the season. I'd rather have a guy like Alberts to rely on and see what Corrado can do. Who the Canucks get to play LD on the 3rd pairing - either from who they have currently signed or from outside as a UFA or by trade - gives the "Tanev vs Corrado on RD" discussion for this upcoming season more context I think. If they can get a steady veteran LD who they feel can stabilize that pairing no matter which one of Corrado, Weber, etc. mans the other point, then that could make Tanev a bit more expendable in terms of stabilizing the 3rd pairing defensively and allowing the team to see what Corrado can bring (or Weber for that matter). I am not saying they can get that guy or not but I feel that is a question that would have a bearing on the upper ceiling value in dollars and the acceptable term that they place on a contract for Tanev. I think they would want to keep Tanev but not at any cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawkdrummer Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Tanev is a third pairing d-man on this team and takes too much abuse from opposing teams. I often wonder how he gets back up after some of those hits he takes but he does (but for how long?). Don't get me wrong, he's young, one of our own guys and shows some potential to be a top 4 d-man but... He's not Hamhuis, Beiska, Edler or Garrison. Yes, he's a steady 3rd pairing d-man that can make a nice outlet pass for sure but at what cost? It should be at a 3rd pairing d-man wage. So then, what's he worth... a 3rd pairing d-man wage I say, so let MG and LG play hardball as 3rd pairing d-man aren't that hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Please tell me all of the 2nd rounders that have played for the Canucks in the past decade. Mason Raymond? Anyone else? No a 2nd rounder is not worth more than a young stay at home defenseman that has proven he can be relied upon to play solid minutes. Not to mention he's still showing signs of development. Sure, 2nd rounders that have played for the Canucks: Brendan Morrison (1993) Max Lapierre (2003) David Booth (2004) Derek Roy (2001) I can name you players drafted after 2nd round by the Canucks that are better: Kevin Bieksa (5th round 2001) Alex Edler (3rd round 2004) Jannik Hansen (9th round 2004) Frank Corrado (5th round 2011) Also, it is not logical to just look at the Canucks' past 2nd round draft picks and determine that a 2nd round pick is not worth more than Chris Tanev. Rather, you should have looked at all 30 players picked in the 2nd round in each year, and judge how many of them ended up being better than Tanev - because that is the probability we would have in drafting a player better than Tanev. My point is in two: Tanev is not worth more than a 2nd round pick, and that a guy like Tanev is easily replaceable. There's a fair chance that a 2nd rounder will turn out to be better or at least as good as Tanev. And Tanev is nothing special - he eats up bottom 6 minutes - that's something many defensemen in the NHL could do and easily replace - for example, Corrado. Corrado will be better than Tanev the upcoming season or the next. Is there potential for development for Tanev? Sure, because he's still young. But he is never going to develop to be more than a bottom pairing defenseman on a contending team (or a 2nd pairing defenseman on an average team). I just see the guy as being easily replaceable, and the fact that 2nd round picks have a fair chance to turn up as good if not better for us makes me say what I said before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Tanev is a third pairing d-man on this team and takes too much abuse from opposing teams. I often wonder how he gets back up after some of those hits he takes but he does (but for how long?). Don't get me wrong, he's young, one of our own guys and shows some potential to be a top 4 d-man but... He's not Hamhuis, Beiska, Edler or Garrison. Yes, he's a steady 3rd pairing d-man that can make a nice outlet pass for sure but at what cost? It should be at a 3rd pairing d-man wage. So then, what's he worth... a 3rd pairing d-man wage I say, so let MG and LG play hardball as 3rd pairing d-man aren't that hard to find. You have hit the key question I would have about Tanev. Yes, he is still developing but can he take the heavy physical play over the full season and playoffs. Building a CUP winner is the sole purpose of a org and Tanev does not have enough NHL games to form a long term decision on value. Right defense has been a problem since Ehrhoff and Salo left. Tanev and Corrado have promise but are just that. I do not consider Bieksa a #1 RD. On top of all this the Canucks have wanted a more physical presence on the back end and none of the current d-men have shown any consistency in that department. Edler has the most potential and hopefully Torts can bring it out. Van's most consistent physical player on the backend has been Alberts. As a 3rd pairing he rather impressed me last year. He is a Torts type player and I would not be surprised to see him resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Who the Canucks get to play LD on the 3rd pairing - either from who they have currently signed or from outside as a UFA or by trade - gives the "Tanev vs Corrado on RD" discussion for this upcoming season more context I think. If they can get a steady veteran LD who they feel can stabilize that pairing no matter which one of Corrado, Weber, etc. mans the other point, then that could make Tanev a bit more expendable in terms of stabilizing the 3rd pairing defensively and allowing the team to see what Corrado can bring (or Weber for that matter). I am not saying they can get that guy or not but I feel that is a question that would have a bearing on the upper ceiling value in dollars and the acceptable term that they place on a contract for Tanev. I think they would want to keep Tanev but not at any cost. Sure but the point isn't to make Tanev expendable. It will be tough to find anybody who will do the job Tanev does (Which I know you feel is very little) for the price he will likely come in at. The point of this though isn't to replace Tanev which will be harder to do than you think it will be because of the lack of credit you give him, it's to not be forced to rely on a guy with a handful of games in Corrado. Having said that; if they can get Hal Gill I'd probably crap myself. However if Tanev signs and they do get another D it will likely be Weber to get benched before Tanev does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Just because there is a 'report' that there's no talk, doesn't mean there is no interest or that Tanev wants too much. MG is probably trying to figure out how he can bring back Alberts and sign Tanev and stay under the cap. By the beginning of season, I suspect both will have signed appropriate contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Sure, 2nd rounders that have played for the Canucks: Brendan Morrison (1993) Max Lapierre (2003) David Booth (2004) Derek Roy (2001) Players drafted by the Canucks... We would be the ones making the selection if we gave up Tanev for a 2nd rounder. And my point was our track record with 2nd rounders is horrible, therefore it would not be worth giving up Tanev to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Players drafted by the Canucks... We would be the ones making the selection if we gave up Tanev for a 2nd rounder. And my point was our track record with 2nd rounders is horrible, therefore it would not be worth giving up Tanev to get one. Our track record hardly matters because most of what you're looking at is Nonis/Burke's record. Totally irrelevant hence makes your point a moot one. Gillis has made THREE 2nd round picks in his tenure (Sauve, Rodin, Mallet) - none of which are better than Tanev or project to be at this point. So Gillis does not have a good record either. I still think a 2nd round pick is worth Tanev because he is so goddamn expendable and replaceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Our track record hardly matters because most of what you're looking at is Nonis/Burke's record. Totally irrelevant hence makes your point a moot one. Gillis has made THREE 2nd round picks in his tenure (Sauve, Rodin, Mallet) - none of which are better than Tanev or project to be at this point. So Gillis does not have a good record either. I still think a 2nd round pick is worth Tanev because he is so goddamn expendable and replaceable. And those 3 players you listed aren't expendable too? I don't see us making any improvements in our 2nd round draft selections, and Gillis knows it, which is why he was willing to trade a 2nd for Roy. It's hard getting good players late in the 2nd round. Again, if Tanev was so replaceable we would have already promoted someone in the system to do it. The truth is we have no one in our system that is capable of doing what Tanev does, and no Corrado has not proven a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Not gonna lie if Tanev was so good we wouldn't have lost 8 of our last 9 playoff games. He's really overrated because AV's system made Edler and Bieksa look really stupid at times. Not that I wouldn't sign him but if he's asking for more than 1.2 for 9 points a season he can take a hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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