Dragonfruits Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well said. Edler makes far less mistakes than Hamhuis. Not sure about Bieksa... I would say they are pretty even. Even if you throw out quantity of hits and just focus on quality. Edlers hits are far more bone crushing than hammers and usually on part with Bieksa. There's a reason he's the highest paid dman on our team... The fact that people rag on him is solely because they just have too big of a hard on for bieksa and hammer. I too have a major one for Bieksa. Hard not to. The guy stands up for his team mates... Hamhuis on the other hand is constantly coughing up the puck and throwing useless shots at the net. Edler is great. Bieksa and Hamhuis are slightly less great in my books it is a thread about Schroeder and i hate to derail threads but i get tired of the constant bashing Edler gets over his plus/minus and points when he has played less games then you get people saying he isn't physical does nothing on the ice but the real time stats tell a different story i am one of the few is still a fan of him it seems not going to respond anymore in this thread about Edler it is about Schroeder and Stanton so lets move on if you wanna start a Edler thread or continue it elsewhere so be it that's it for me in this thread(this isn't all directed at you apollo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Nice to hear some positive news. Can't wait till we get a full healthy lineup back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Schroeder has "looked good" but hasn't put up the numbers at either level of solidfy himself as an NHL player. That coupled with injuries, his small stature, and age (23) he is unfortunately facing a make it or break it point in a very tough position. I personally am rooting for him. I really like the way he plays and was noticeable on the ice in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 67 hits 2nd on the team defense played 76 blocked shots 4th on the team defense 19 giveaways with Bieksa having 42 and Hamhuis 41 the only reason this isn't noticeable is because their plus/minus is better than Edler which is a direct result of the goalie or d-partner or forwards bailing them out oh he also played only 32 games while others have played 51 he would be first in most real time stat categories if he played all the games again i will say the only thing people have to back their argument is points and plus/minus plus/minus is a useless stat you can step on the ice and doing nothing for a plus or minus points the only one he is far behind is Garrison with 26 points Edler at 11 points Bieksa 16 Hamhuis 14 Tanev 13 all have played more games than Edler you can talk all you want about Edler not being physical but the Numbers Don't Lie when he is one of our most physical defenseman But those stats are influenced by Hammer and Bieksa having to play far more minutes than practical after Stanton went down so they are skewed (the problem with most statistics). The fatigue factor for Hammer and Kevin during that time was a major factor in their higher turn-over rate and in them playing a less physical game. Stats, without context mean nothing. If you can use Edler playing fewer games to justify the stats in his favour, that same argument can be made the other way...he gets the most ice time in games he plays yet he is 4th in blocks, 2nd in hits, and based on ratios, his giveaways are only slightly less than the other top D if he had played as many games. The team faired well with Edler out until Stanton went down. Then the top guys, playing huge minutes started to suffer and the stats showed that. I never referred to +/- in ,y assessment as yes, there are many factors that influence it just like the other stats. Having said that, at some point, a serious discrepancy in +/- that does not correct does indicate performance. TO have one D man with a -13 and only one other in negative numbers (-2_) with the rest all pluses, does indicate Edler is not playing up to his contract in his own end. It's not like he plays D without a partner, right? THe fact Apollo has a hard-on for him only makes me even more convinced I am seeing things clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Van d-core offense is so bad right now that Weber looks like a Norris candidate. Stanton should be sent down for conditioning as well. Stanton 2 or 3 games. Schroeder 10 games. I know there are time limits to a conditioning stint just saying how many games needed. Putting JS in after 2 games is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman60 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I feel like Schroeder is a smaller, more skilled version of Santorelli. Made me realize that if Schroeder can stay healthy it may make Santorelli an odd man out next year. I disagree with you on this one. Santorelli has better hands, is also more versatile and goes to the dirty areas. If Schroeder comes back, it will be as a 3rd line centre where he can play with bigger players like Sestito and Hansen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Looking forward to see Schroeder get a good shot in the top 6. He has the kind of skill and speed this team needs. Hopefully he can learn to play "big:" I think Stanton was missed more than we realize. Look forward to his solid presence on the blueline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Schroeder will not make it in the Pacific Division. Better trade him to a Southern team or at least an Eastern team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I am hoping that Schroeder can find some chemistry with our struggling offensive players (Booth).....He could also be on the 2nd unit PP ...Santorelli came in this season and basically took JS 's job (deservedly so)....As other posters have alluded to,Santo is better on the boards,and is aggressive on the puck....JS is a gifted playmaker,skater...That's the tradeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman60 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Edler has to be more consistant with his physical play. He is a big man and can lay out some solid hits. I loved the check he threw in the LA game. The defense is better with him in the lineup than when he is out. Stanton will make the defense even better. I think the 7th dman is going to be Weber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Schroeder may not get back up anytime soon. If Santo is ready soon and Hank returns and will Lain completing a fourth line of bangers and crashers, there may not be room for him, no matter how tiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Schroeder must really need some work to be sent down for conditioning when we are this short on Centers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 After the conditioning stint, he'll add some speed to our lineup. We look slow out there, Weber looked great with his time covering for Stanton! Should re-sign him at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Schroeder's been injured almost the entire season. It would be stupid not to give him a conditioning stint against easier opposition before throwing him into the lineup and expecting him to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I disagree with you on this one. Santorelli has better hands, is also more versatile and goes to the dirty areas. If Schroeder comes back, it will be as a 3rd line centre where he can play with bigger players like Sestito and Hansen. We agree to disagree...Schroeders saucer pass to Mason Raymond last season comes to mind..I would give the the better hands to JS...Santo is the more versatile though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think the team did pretty good without Edler (Decemnber win streak) but the D struggled once Stanton went down and the other D had to log more minutes. Just don't see Elder as tough enough, fast enough, mobile enough, physical enough or smart enough to justify his contract. If the rest of the D are healthy, the team is fine without him. Edler is fine, he gets picked apart because guys want something more exciting from our D. We can get more specific, but in the grand scheme of the things all our D could be described as; Mobile, above average two way players with good passing and steady play! We can pick out Edler, perhaps Bieksa as being more mistake prone on our crew, but not looking at the league as whole. Garrison and Edler, I suppose Weber as well, can shoot. Hamhuis and Garrison are stay at home defenders. Tanev has close out speed and is extremely heady. All are good athletes. Its a great way to start a team, with solid foundations. Edler like everyone else is not an offensive force. We could have Shane O'Brien back? This just illustrates that we're not that bad. But we are not dynamic either. The problem is none have top end offensive skills and speed. A guy who can dangle and make guys miss, break down opposing defences leaving people out of position, haul the puck up ice with speed... Create motion and drop passes on forwards in position on the PP. Yeah our guys pinch to hold a puck in. But we're sooooo frickin static as D men with the puck! Yes there is some redundancy and room to add some new skills to make the team more dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Schroeder will not make it in the Pacific Division. Better trade him to a Southern team or at least an Eastern team. Andrew Cogliano is 2 inchs taller and doing great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Edler is redundant! He turns the puck over more than the rest of our D combined, is slow, isn't playing physical and isn't producing points. I'd rather have Stanton and Weber in right now. Weber has serious speed and looks like if he got comfortable, he could play a style like Karlsson (not saying he is Karlsson). Bieksa and Hamhuis both have more giveaways per game than Edler. He actually has about as many per game as Hank. The "he turndud da puck ovar tu much" is false and used by people who have just hoped onto this seasons whipping boy bandwagon. BTW he also has similar ice time per game to both Hammer and Juice. To address the "those guys had to play more so they made mistakes while edler was gone" argument; these statistics for all players mentioned have been similar for a few years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Edler is fine, he gets picked apart because guys want something more exciting from our D. We can get more specific, but in the grand scheme of the things all our D could be described as; Mobile, above average two way players with good passing and steady play! We can pick out Edler, perhaps Bieksa as being more mistake prone on our crew, but not looking at the league as whole. Garrison and Edler, I suppose Weber as well, can shoot. Hamhuis and Garrison are stay at home defenders. Tanev has close out speed and is extremely heady. All are good athletes. Its a great way to start a team, with solid foundations. Edler like everyone else is not an offensive force. We could have Shane O'Brien back? This just illustrates that we're not that bad. But we are not dynamic either. The problem is none have top end offensive skills and speed. A guy who can dangle and make guys miss, break down opposing defences leaving people out of position, haul the puck up ice with speed... Create motion and drop passes on forwards in position on the PP. Yeah our guys pinch to hold a puck in. But we're sooooo frickin static as D men with the puck! Yes there is some redundancy and room to add some new skills to make the team more dangerous! Pretty fair assessment. Boils down to expectations with Edler as our highest paid defenceman but as you say, we really don't have a "star" capable of being a true shut down stud or offensive threat. It's one way to build a d-core though it seems tome, most contending team have a real #1 D-man stud who log huge minutes and is effective at shutting down the best in the league and can QB a PP and be an offensive threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Bieksa and Hamhuis both have more giveaways per game than Edler. He actually has about as many per game as Hank. The "he turndud da puck ovar tu much" is false and used by people who have just hoped onto this seasons whipping boy bandwagon. BTW he also has similar ice time per game to both Hammer and Juice. To address the "those guys had to play more so they made mistakes while edler was gone" argument; these statistics for all players mentioned have been similar for a few years now. TO be clear, no bandwagoner here for the team or any one player. Always though Edler was over-rated and still do. IF ice time etc are all comparable, you conveniently then leave out the =/-. Edler has not been good enough to justify his stature or contract. Hopefully he can get better. There is likely a reason why he was the topic of much trade speculation in the off-season. FOr his price, he doesn't really bring anything we dont' already have and for cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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