Spotted Zebra Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 10 minutes ago, Alflives said: There is a difference between prospects chosen in the same (recent) draft, and the established players you mentioned. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but to imply a poster is fishing - on a CANUCKS board - by supporting his team's prospects is illogical IMHO. Some might think (not myself) that it is you, whom is casting a net. So because it is a Canucks Forum means you can't think logically about other players in the league? How much did you support Patrick White? Jordan Schroeder? There is a difference between supporting players and being oblivious to the success of others. its still early but Jake is looking more and more like he should have been taken in the 24 spot, and Detroit makes everyone look foolish once again? or are you going to tell me Jake is having a better season Than Larkin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 43 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said: So because it is a Canucks Forum means you can't think logically about other players in the league? How much did you support Patrick White? Jordan Schroeder? There is a difference between supporting players and being oblivious to the success of others. its still early but Jake is looking more and more like he should have been taken in the 24 spot, and Detroit makes everyone look foolish once again? or are you going to tell me Jake is having a better season Than Larkin? The thing many of you seem to miss, is that largely, it really doesn't matter who has the best rookie season. I could frankly care less. What does matter is how these players are playing say 3-4+ years from now. Anyone with half of a brain should have realized from the start that the big bodied and youngest kid in his draft class from the team with a decided lack of systems play was going to be less polished. This year is about getting him more polished, not stat lines. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 6 hours ago, J.R. said: The thing many of you seem to miss, is that largely, it really doesn't matter who has the best rookie season. I could frankly care less. What does matter is how these players are playing say 3-4+ years from now. Anyone with half of a brain should have realized from the start that the big bodied and youngest kid in his draft class from the team with a decided lack of systems play was going to be less polished. This year is about getting him more polished, not stat lines. Exactly, and I think it's something we shouldn't forget about when we compare Jake's stat lines to what Ehlers and Nylander are doing. However I still think that we're not polishing him properly in the NHL right now. He's making mistakes and he's not learning from them, just like the rest of the team. I don't think this Canucks environment is the right one for him. If we were winning big games, playing the right way etc. then I'd be all for keeping Virtanen on board so he can learn from our successes but right now we're a terrible team that's finding ways to lose games and that can't be good for a young players' development. I just fear that that'll have the same impact on him that the Oilers have had on their rookies time and time again - rushed into a bad environment, a terrible scenario, and those kids over there have been broken. Sure, Hall puts up points and they look flashy, but they don't ever learn how to play solid defensively or win games. That's what we need from Jake - a more well rounded forward, and that's why I think we should send him down to junior STILL. I just think he'd be better off there on their top line scoring huge goals every night and directly helping their team win than over here in Vancouver where he is primarily used to be a hitter and that's about it. How much can he be learning by skating around, taking about 1 shot a night and throwing hits when he could be on a first line with skilled kids in Calgary scoring game winning goals every other night? I think we still have time, if we send him down now, bite the bullet and burn a year of his ELC, then he'll be much better next season, similarly to Draisaitl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said: However I still think that we're not polishing him properly in the NHL right now. He's making mistakes and he's not learning from them, just like the rest of the team. I don't think this Canucks environment is the right one for him. If we were winning big games, playing the right way etc. then I'd be all for keeping Virtanen on board so he can learn from our successes but right now we're a terrible team that's finding ways to lose games and that can't be good for a young players' development. Not quite sure how you know this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettyWhites44 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said: How much can he be learning by skating around, taking about 1 shot a night and throwing hits when he could be on a first line with skilled kids in Calgary scoring game winning goals every other night? You realize Calgary is 12-10-0-1 Please explain to me how going back to a .500 team will help his development? All WD is doing is trying to do is eliminate of those bad junior habits which you see pop up all the time in games from the Kids. Jake is much better suited for the NHL then regressing in the WHL playing against kids. I do agree Jake and Jared should play in the WJC's, maybe decompress and have some fun beating whoever for the Gold. Edited November 20, 2015 by BettyWhites44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 32 minutes ago, RonMexico said: Not quite sure how you know this. Because he's repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Not seeing any improvement. For some of the other guys like McCann and Horvat in their 9 game stint I noticed marked improvement over the last 4 or 5 games, but it's been almost a quarter of the season for Virtanen now and he's exactly the same, if not worse than he was in his first 9 games. He's looking slower and more tired out there, not throwing as many hits or generating as many chances as he did during his first 9 games. If a kid from the AHL like Gaunce, Shinkaruk or Jensen got called up and played the way Virtanen did they'd be packing the next night. Don't kid yourselves, the only reason Virtanen is still here is to save face for the coaches and management right now. It's embarassing to send a player back to junior after burning an ELC year but I think that's the sort of ballsy, gusty move our coaches and management have to take because it's too dire a situation if we ruin his development this way. To be perfectly honest, the way Horvat's playing he probably belongs in the AHL but because of how thin we are, we need these kids in our roster. The Canucks are becoming dangerously close to the Oilers' and their need to rush players into the league. Only difference is their kids are far more skilled than ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 9 hours ago, Spotted Zebra said: So because it is a Canucks Forum means you can't think logically about other players in the league? How much did you support Patrick White? Jordan Schroeder? There is a difference between supporting players and being oblivious to the success of others. its still early but Jake is looking more and more like he should have been taken in the 24 spot, and Detroit makes everyone look foolish once again? or are you going to tell me Jake is having a better season Than Larkin? Couldn't tell you otherwise. Although, McCann has more goals than Larkin, playing less minutes and with knuckle draggers for wingers. So, by your logic McCann should have been taken befor Larkin, Nylander, and Ehlers, which makes JB look very smart, and those other three teams dumb. Fact is Virtanen scores, hits, fights, and makes a difference every time he's on the ice. All those other prospects mentioned - including McCann - do not. Perhaps, you could take your love for other teams's prospects to their boards? It's only a suggestion, but I bet you would get all those posters agreeing with you, which might make you popular. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettyWhites44 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Perhaps, you could take your love for other teams's prospects to their boards? It's only a suggestion, but I bet you would get all those posters agreeing with you, which might make you popular. *Mic Drops* Leaves stage to applause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Damn 540 pages already and a lot of the comments here are negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Damn 540 pages already and a lot of the comments here are negative. 540 pages though. That's good. Is that why our tickets cost so darned much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 40 minutes ago, Alflives said: Couldn't tell you otherwise. Although, McCann has more goals than Larkin, playing less minutes and with knuckle draggers for wingers. So, by your logic McCann should have been taken befor Larkin, Nylander, and Ehlers, which makes JB look very smart, and those other three teams dumb. Fact is Virtanen scores, hits, fights, and makes a difference every time he's on the ice. All those other prospects mentioned - including McCann - do not. Perhaps, you could take your love for other teams's prospects to their boards? It's only a suggestion, but I bet you would get all those posters agreeing with you, which might make you popular. ?? 1 goal in 16 games. I hate to be that guy but he doesn't score or really create any offense when he is on the ice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Ihatetomatoes said: ?? 1 goal in 16 games. I hate to be that guy but he doesn't score or really create any offense when he is on the ice. That's my point. He contributes in other ways, when not scoring: hits, fights, aggressive play, pounding the other D, providing game changing energy. These other prospects he was compared to need to produce offence, or they are not contributing. They are like Vey and Baertchi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, Alflives said: That's my point. He contributes in other ways, when not scoring: hits, fights, aggressive play, pounding the other D, providing game changing energy. These other prospects he was compared to need to produce offence, or they are not contributing. They are like Vey and Baertchi. No one's gonna shy away from proclaiming Nylander and Ehlers busts if they don't put up points. Heck, I'll be the first to do so. At 6th overall, JV has to do more than just hit and play aggressive so that same parameter you've placed on the others should be placed on JV too. But I'm guessing that there's gonna be a double standard around here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonberries Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Damn 540 pages already and a lot of the comments here are negative. That's another reason not to expose kids to the Vancouver fishbowl before they're truly prepared for it. Sure, you may sell some extra tickets and a $&!# ton of merchandise, but at what cost to the young player? He could be tarred and feathered and run out of town by the media/fans before he's old enough to drink beer in some NHL markets. It's a short sighted and a very risky approach to player development; one good teams don't follow as a rule. I was and I still am strongly against it. And not just with Jake, but with Jared and with Bo too. Of course we don't have prospects in the system very much, so when they do happen to come along we don't really know how to handle them; the Frank Corrado scenario is a painful example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 20 hours ago, Toews said: Your act is tiresome and its not even something we haven't seen on this board before. You can try and argue otherwise but it is trolling. Make some ridiculously over the top statement and when people call you out on it, pretend that it some how makes someone a lesser fan because they are defending players from another team. If you think pretending to be a homer some how makes everyone blind to your act then you are mistaken. Like I said your act is not something we haven't seen before. passive-aggressive PC types not your cup of tea eh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, guntrix said: No one's gonna shy away from proclaiming Nylander and Ehlers busts if they don't put up points. Heck, I'll be the first to do so. At 6th overall, JV has to do more than just hit and play aggressive so that same parameter you've placed on the others should be placed on JV too. But I'm guessing that there's gonna be a double standard around here. Tell you what, if Jake's still scoring at this rate in ~4 years, we'll talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 10 hours ago, Alflives said: That's my point. He contributes in other ways, when not scoring: hits, fights, aggressive play, pounding the other D, providing game changing energy. These other prospects he was compared to need to produce offence, or they are not contributing. They are like Vey and Baertchi. He has had 1 fight and wasn't very good at it his hitting and physical play has tailed off the last bunch of games, You want him to use his speed and drive to the net and use his shot instead of fighting, I don't think he has the mental makeup to be a fighter. You really want him to go up against guys like Peluso or Reaves or other plugs like that, he would be destroyed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Not many 19 year old kids can crush dion phaneuf into the boards hes gaining valuable experience playing and training in the nhl People complain about his hockey iq, he's learning from two of the smartest players in the NHL and working on his overall NHL game this season is only a small step in a long successful career 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 11 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Hate to be that guy but he didn't score in 10 games with Utica either... Horvat looked crap in Utica in his conditioning stint. Bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 decades and no cup Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 2 hours ago, Off_The_Schneid! said: this season is only a small step in a long successful career So very true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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