Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[guntrix]

4 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

So if we had taken Jared 6th and Jake 24th would you whiners be happier? It doesn't matter where they were drafted. The fact is that the Canucks drafted them and they are our players. The rebuild is sped up by a year by putting these guys in the lineup this year. B!tch some more please I can't wait to read your next diatribe.

Are you for real? I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously. 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

At the beginning of the season I would have said a future top defeneman is most important but we still needed a top flight centerman at the last years draft which is why I was really insisting we draft Nylander. Nylander would have filled Henrik's hole perfectly, and the Swedes could have mentored each other nicely. Nylander's still playing center and would have been hitting his prime just as the Sedins are slowing down in about 2-3 years time now. Flank him with anyone (Baertschi, Boeser etc.) and you've got a pretty good top line.

I think the real fear of drafting an Ehlers or Nylander was their defensive play and whether they'd be physically strong enough for the NHL playoffs. Nylander has played with men his whole life in Sweden and is doing it again in the AHL with absolutely no problems. Ehlers is proving that sure, he's been taking hits, but he bounces right back and contributes offensively. They're both showing people that size is the most overrated quality of a player and it really is now. Today's NHL is all about speed and skill and they're going to thrive in it.

Anyway, despite not drafting Nylander we went out and snagged McCann luckily. He should have gone in the top-15 for sure but we somehow ended up with him and he's saved Benning's ass big time. McCann may well become our future first line center. He's got the offensive IQ and skill for it, and he's got the defensive wareabouts him which is just as important in today's NHL. If he can bulk up a bit more over the off-season and maybe score 40 points next season, I think we may have our future first line center in McCann. Still, I would have preferred using our high pick (#6) on a first line skilled center and that later pick in the first round on a physical powerforward winger (or even defenceman IMO) but we have to live with what we've got now. I still believe McCann is by far the better pick for us of that draft for now and in the future and we got really lucky with him.

That leaves a pretty giant gaping hole on defence now though. Hutton's great and may well become a top pairing defenceman but we have nothing after him. Sbisa may end up a top-4 defenceman on a regular basis if we're lucky and Tanev is obviously going to be a rock for us for some time, but we're still missing a true #1 defenceman let alone a true top pairing. Benning hasn't drafted many defencemen in the last years and it makes me worry where we're going to get one, because trades for defensive prospects are costing teams a lot (see Reinhart to EDM, Hamilton to CGY). That's the sort of trade Benning needs to make right now to really balance out this team.

Yup to all, really.  What do you think of Draistle?  What if we could get him?  I heard that Duchene could be available too.  If we could somehow get lucky, and get Seth Jones, that would be great.  Then there are the rumours about Hamonic too.  What do we give up to get those pieces, or do we hold out to the draft, and get lucky again - like we clearly did with McCann?

[canuckledraggin]

12 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

At the beginning of the season I would have said a future top defeneman is most important but we still needed a top flight centerman at the last years draft which is why I was really insisting we draft Nylander. Nylander would have filled Henrik's hole perfectly, and the Swedes could have mentored each other nicely. Nylander's still playing center and would have been hitting his prime just as the Sedins are slowing down in about 2-3 years time now. Flank him with anyone (Baertschi, Boeser etc.) and you've got a pretty good top line.

I think the real fear of drafting an Ehlers or Nylander was their defensive play and whether they'd be physically strong enough for the NHL playoffs. Nylander has played with men his whole life in Sweden and is doing it again in the AHL with absolutely no problems. Ehlers is proving that sure, he's been taking hits, but he bounces right back and contributes offensively. They're both showing people that size is the most overrated quality of a player and it really is now. Today's NHL is all about speed and skill and they're going to thrive in it.

Anyway, despite not drafting Nylander we went out and snagged McCann luckily. He should have gone in the top-15 for sure but we somehow ended up with him and he's saved Benning's ass big time. McCann may well become our future first line center. He's got the offensive IQ and skill for it, and he's got the defensive wareabouts him which is just as important in today's NHL. If he can bulk up a bit more over the off-season and maybe score 40 points next season, I think we may have our future first line center in McCann. Still, I would have preferred using our high pick (#6) on a first line skilled center and that later pick in the first round on a physical powerforward winger (or even defenceman IMO) but we have to live with what we've got now. I still believe McCann is by far the better pick for us of that draft for now and in the future and we got really lucky with him.

That leaves a pretty giant gaping hole on defence now though. Hutton's great and may well become a top pairing defenceman but we have nothing after him. Sbisa may end up a top-4 defenceman on a regular basis if we're lucky and Tanev is obviously going to be a rock for us for some time, but we're still missing a true #1 defenceman let alone a true top pairing. Benning hasn't drafted many defencemen in the last years and it makes me worry where we're going to get one, because trades for defensive prospects are costing teams a lot (see Reinhart to EDM, Hamilton to CGY). That's the sort of trade Benning needs to make right now to really balance out this team.

I had to keep reading after reading that bolded statement. It was somewhat tame after that, but the essence and continuing sentiment is that we should have drafted Nylander. We get it. You're allowed to go on with your life now. Our picks were truly terrible since the Sedins, with a few outliers , but 

 

4 hours ago, guntrix said:

Are you for real? I'm having a hard time taking this post seriously. 

And I disagree with everything you say. We're never going to agree on anything, because you approach the world from a negative viewpoint. It doesn't matter a hide nor a hair where we drafted the player that is 19 and playing for the Canucks.

As I provided the link in a previous post, there are 14 players that are playing in the NHL from that draft. If he wasn't able to play in the NHL then he would never have played even 1 game.

You think that he could become a better player by playing in junior, but I think that he is going to learn the NHL game by playing minutes in the NHL. 

 

[Toews]

18 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

And I disagree with everything you say. We're never going to agree on anything, because you approach the world from a negative viewpoint. It doesn't matter a hide nor a hair where we drafted the player that is 19 and playing for the Canucks.

As I provided the link in a previous post, there are 14 players that are playing in the NHL from that draft. If he wasn't able to play in the NHL then he would never have played even 1 game.

You think that he could become a better player by playing in junior, but I think that he is going to learn the NHL game by playing minutes in the NHL. 

I agree with guntrix on that point. There is a different choice to be made at #6 than at #24. It's not about being negative but there are 17 players picked between those picks. Those 17 choices were available at #6 that weren't available at #24. It does make a difference, and you don't have to be on either side of the fence to acknowledge that.

[Odd.]

Good game from Virtanen tonight. 

[canuckledraggin]

 Sure there's a difference, but with our 2 picks in the 1st round of the 2014 draft we drafted 2 players that filled organizational needs. We drafted a power forward type scoring winger and a 2-way center to eventually take over the spot that Kesler left. 

Once the draft is over it doesn't matter. We will never agree on this point.

[guntrix]

33 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

 Sure there's a difference, but with our 2 picks in the 1st round of the 2014 draft we drafted 2 players that filled organizational needs. We drafted a power forward type scoring winger and a 2-way center to eventually take over the spot that Kesler left. 

Once the draft is over it doesn't matter. We will never agree on this point.

Just stop. No one agrees with your initial statement and now you're trying to fluff it up. 

[Gaudette Celly]

30 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Good game from Virtanen tonight. 

He makes some blunders out there, but is also effective.  Very good at retrieving the puck in the offensive zone and causing turnovers with his speed.  Looks as though he's not played with any skilled linemates and has had to do everything himself.  Once he adjusts to that and starts getting into position for passes and shots we're going to see more production.

[canuckledraggin]

5 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Just stop. No one agrees with your initial statement and now you're trying to fluff it up. 

You have no idea what everyone thinks. I am in disagreement with your opinion. It happens and I think it's folly to try to keep insisting on this course.

I have disagreed with everything that you have said in this thread. It's ok. We're allowed to disagree. You prefer to live in 2014 and believe that somehow our draft picks were failures, even though they are currently playing in the NHL. I understand your position, I just don't agree with it.

 

[Canorth]

Deleted

 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Canorth

[manroth19]

Love virty and excited about his future but man the kid needs to sit his ass in the press box a bit. Way too many turnovers

[DownUndaCanuck]

Saw a bit of good and a bit of bad from Virtanen tonight. Absolutely brutal turnover straight into a scrum in our own net that could have easily caused a goal against. Then he generates a few turnovers himself and fights along the boards nicely.

For me, that's still a saw-off and he's playing even right now. He's doing as much bad for this team as he is good right now. Hopefully his game picks up at some point and he can be a bit more beneficial, whether it be adding offensive production or even PKing. I'd love to see what he can do with his speed on the PK on a consistent basis, you never know.

[messier's_elbow]

10 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yup to all, really.  What do you think of Draistle?  What if we could get him?  I heard that Duchene could be available too.  If we could somehow get lucky, and get Seth Jones, that would be great.  Then there are the rumours about Hamonic too.  What do we give up to get those pieces, or do we hold out to the draft, and get lucky again - like we clearly did with McCann?

Keep living in fantasy land.

[messier's_elbow]

Guys get over it. Jake will be a good player in this league. They brought him in a year early, but Benning didnt want Jake learning more bad habits in junior.

[Edlerberry]

14 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 I was really insisting we draft Nylander. Nylander would have filled Henrik's hole perfectly... showing people that size is the most overrated quality.

Anyway, 

That leaves a pretty giant gaping hole

sums it up

[Boudrias]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Saw a bit of good and a bit of bad from Virtanen tonight. Absolutely brutal turnover straight into a scrum in our own net that could have easily caused a goal against. Then he generates a few turnovers himself and fights along the boards nicely.

For me, that's still a saw-off and he's playing even right now. He's doing as much bad for this team as he is good right now. Hopefully his game picks up at some point and he can be a bit more beneficial, whether it be adding offensive production or even PKing. I'd love to see what he can do with his speed on the PK on a consistent basis, you never know.

JV is so physical that fans can forget he is 19 years old playing in the NHL. NHL game speed can make him second guess moves. What excites me is how often he is in the play and simply loses the puck to more experienced players. I fully expect that he will adjust and start coming out of those scrums with the puck more often. With his size and shot he should do very well.  

[The Lock]

14 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Saw a bit of good and a bit of bad from Virtanen tonight. Absolutely brutal turnover straight into a scrum in our own net that could have easily caused a goal against. Then he generates a few turnovers himself and fights along the boards nicely.

For me, that's still a saw-off and he's playing even right now. He's doing as much bad for this team as he is good right now. Hopefully his game picks up at some point and he can be a bit more beneficial, whether it be adding offensive production or even PKing. I'd love to see what he can do with his speed on the PK on a consistent basis, you never know.

He's 19. I still don't get why you're being so critical on a 19 year old. Please. Just stop treating him like a 24 or 30 year old. Give him time to develop rather than trying to look for every possible mistake he makes. From what I'm reading of your posts, you're looking for any excuse to not like his play at the moment. Objectivity shows no bias so, if you want to show some objectivity, you might want to throw that bias out the window

He's learning. Let him learn. He'll get better.

Edited November 23, 2015 by The Lock

[hlinkas wrister]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

He's 19. I still don't get why you're being so critical on a 19 year old. Please. Just stop treating him like a 24 or 30 year old. Give him time to develop rather than trying to look for every possible mistake he makes. From what I'm reading of your posts, you're looking for any excuse to not like his play at the moment. Objectivity shows no bias so, if you want to show some objectivity, you might want to throw that bias out the window

He's learning. Let him learn. He'll get better.

What ? that post was as "glass half full" as it gets, hardly critical. Also,that play he was referring to was something I'd expect to see out of a peewee house leaguer, not a top ten draft pick in the NHL so he's hardly going over the top there. We (Canuck fans) all want our draft picks to succeed, especially a local kid, but that doesn't mean they are above criticism when they eff up.

[The Lock]

4 minutes ago, hlinkas wrister said:

What ? that post was as "glass half full" as it gets, hardly critical. Also,that play he was referring to was something I'd expect to see out of a peewee house leaguer, not a top ten draft pick in the NHL so he's hardly going over the top there. We (Canuck fans) all want our draft picks to succeed, especially a local kid, but that doesn't mean they are above criticism when they eff up.

If you're referring to Downunda's post as "half full", I didn't read it like that at all.

What I'm saying is rookies are more likely to make mistakes than veterans. They're rookies. They're learning. I'm not saying you can't criticize; however, should they really be treated like vets as Downunda's post seems to do?

It's how I read it anyway. Considering your post, you seem pretty bias anyway in your opinion of him, so I can see how you'd view it differently.

Edited November 23, 2015 by The Lock

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, hlinkas wrister said:

What ? that post was as "glass half full" as it gets, hardly critical. Also,that play he was referring to was something I'd expect to see out of a peewee house leaguer, not a top ten draft pick in the NHL so he's hardly going over the top there. We (Canuck fans) all want our draft picks to succeed, especially a local kid, but that doesn't mean they are above criticism when they eff up.

Actually JV was in position to make the right play.  That's huge.  Look at a guy like Drouin.  He never even gets to that spot.  JV is doing really well.  He's done the hard part easy, but struggled with the easy part.  And you wouldn't see this type of positioning on the back check from a peewee.  You, my dear Mr. Poster, are not looking at the bigger picture in development.