Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[higgyfan]

I see Jake as a player with a very unique set of skills, who needs to be developed slow and steady.  He doesn't have the hockey sense that will make him an elite player, but with a lot of hard work (on everyone's part) he will develop into a very useful player.  If Jake can reach his potential, I think he will be utilized up and down the line, as well as on special teams.  I don't know if he will reach 1st line or 2nd line offence #s and I don't really think it matters.  He will provide so much support to those lines (making space, moving the puck and stifling any breakaways), that he may end up with a permanent spot.

 

As some have pointed out, Jake is not mean spirited or a fighter, but his keen ability to throw clean and effective hits will make him a fan favourite. The way other players bounce off him is really quite stunning!  I think we will be seeing much more of those exciting hits once his learning curve begins to level off.

 

Like an oversized puppy, he will gradually pull all his talent together and will likely become a very unique and valuable player on the team.

[kloubek]

20 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I'm concerned that those preparing for Jake as a top 6 guy might be setting themselves up for disappointment again. How he comes out this year will tell a lot, but I think tempered expectations are reasonable. I still have him slotted as a middle six guy who can put up 30-40 points a season with maybe one 50-point year during his best year.

 

***after some research***

After looking at the top 180 forwards in points-per-game, it seems like the bottom of the line 2nd line forwards produce at a rate of about 38 points per season, which is within my projections, so maybe my standards are too high for 2nd line forwards. Given that standard, I suppose Jake could fit into a second line role as a fringe top six kind of guy.

I tend to do the same.  The fact is, the range of scoring on any given line tends to swing lower than we might expect.  Top line players aren't often 70+ point guys, and second line players aren't often 60 point guys... yet those are the kinds of points I (and I presume you) expect from such positions.

 

I don't think it is a problem to dream big.  I think that an ideal team has guys who are elite for their positions throughout the lineup.  I still feel Jake will be an elite 3rd line guy with the ability to fill in on 2nd if required. Kind of like the Honey Badger with more size. I do hope he turns into a legit 2nd line guy and play minutes accordingly, since his style of play is exactly what we need to see more of on our team.  

 

Even if he doesn't amount to a true 2nd line guy though, we have plenty of young talent coming through the pipeline soon that should be able to with a year or two of development.  Lind, Goldobin, Dahlen and maybe even Gaudette, Palmu, or Gadjovich all have that potential so you gotta think at least one of those guys will reach their ceiling.  More likely 2-3 of them will.  

 

If we do keep Pettersson on wing as many are predicting, then we are without a true #1 center unless Horvat assumes that role. If there is any player on our team that has shown 2nd line positioning with the potential of being a 1st line player, I'd say it's him.  He won't likely be elite in that role, but good enough to center both Boeser and Pettersson.  Then if we have all this talent for the 2nd, the overflow of that will drop to the third.  At the end of the day, we are going to have a lineup with players that are largely elite for the positions in which they play and that bodes really well for our future. 

 

Sorry... digressing from talking about JV directly.  I'm just super stoked to see what our forward lines will look like in, say, 2 years.

[aGENT]

15 hours ago, NHL'er said:

You don't necessarily need to be a top 6 guy to play in the top 6.

Depending on how good his centre his (and chances are EP will be pretty damn good)  Jake can absolutely fit in a top 6 role imo.

 

Off the top of my head, I think of guys like Chris Kunitz and Alex Burrows who, in their heyday, would have been elite third liners but more than kept their on the first line playing with elite players such as Crosby and Sedins. So to say Jake is destined for the middle six is just as premature as saying he will be as good as Neely. 

This exactly. I've made this point numerous times on here. Most teams don't have the luxury of acquiring a full six, legit top 6 forwards. And if they could, given cap constraints, certainly can't afford to keep them once more than a couple start coming off their ELC/bridge deals. Not without being deficient elsewhere (great top 6 forwards but no depth and no D).

 

Most (good) teams have +/- 4 'legit' top 6 players spread over their top 2 lines and a couple 'middle 6/elite third line' complementary guys to fill in the blanks. Kunitz and Burr both being excellent examples.

 

If he continues off how his year ended, I could easily see Virt as a complimentary +/- 20/20/40 2nd liner moving forward. His speed, size, shot, takeaway ability etc would be a great compliment to some higher skilled guys. He also played quite well with Horvat IMO (who most hope eventually becomes our 2C).

 

But even as soon as next year, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him with some skilled guys (even if it may likely see closer to '3rd line minutes' with Sutter's line taking the bulk of match up, PK etc minutes).

 

Something like:

 

Kane, Horvat, Boeser

Roussel, Sutter, Leipsic/Eriksson

Baer/Goldobin, Pettersson, Virtanen (cushy ex-Sedin usage)

Eriksson/Leipsic, Gaudette, Gagner/Goldobin

 

Gaunce

 

Motte, Dahlen, Jasek, MacEwan, Gadjovich, Lind, Archibald etc available as call ups.

 

EDIT- Dang, just realized I don't have Granlund in there... we really need to move a forward or two this summer  Ideally before/at the draft.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by aGENT

[Dats hockey]

22 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I'm concerned that those preparing for Jake as a top 6 guy might be setting themselves up for disappointment again. How he comes out this year will tell a lot, but I think tempered expectations are reasonable. I still have him slotted as a middle six guy who can put up 30-40 points a season with maybe one 50-point year during his best year.

 

***after some research***

After looking at the top 180 forwards in points-per-game, it seems like the bottom of the line 2nd line forwards produce at a rate of about 38 points per season, which is within my projections, so maybe my standards are too high for 2nd line forwards. Given that standard, I suppose Jake could fit into a second line role as a fringe top six kind of guy.

Say Jake pots 25 Goals or around there and averages like 10-15 assist a season would you call that a solid second liner or still a fringe

 

Edit: i feel like if he plays with EP scoring will come a lot easier for him

Edited May 15, 2018 by Dats hockey

[250Integra]

3 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

High praise from Big Bert.

[-AJ-]

40 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

Say Jake pots 25 Goals or around there and averages like 10-15 assist a season would you call that a solid second liner or still a fringe

 

Edit: i feel like if he plays with EP scoring will come a lot easier for him

That's an interesting case, as that goal-to-assist ratio is unusual. I would say 25 goals puts you at a solid second liner, no doubt, even with fewer assists.

[N4ZZY]

3 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

Say Jake pots 25 Goals or around there and averages like 10-15 assist a season would you call that a solid second liner or still a fringe

 

Edit: i feel like if he plays with EP scoring will come a lot easier for him

I'd almost have a tendency to agree. Jake could be the finisher on a line with EP. 

With that being said, could you imagine a line with Brock and EP?? Brock scores 35-40....

 

[Dats hockey]

21 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I'd almost have a tendency to agree. Jake could be the finisher on a line with EP. 

With that being said, could you imagine a line with Brock and EP?? Brock scores 35-40....

 

Based off this season i think brock could score 35-40 without EP, that being said id be aiming for around 50 with EP if his game translates quickly.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Dats hockey

[WeneedLumme]

On May 15, 2018 at 12:36 PM, -AJ- said:

That's an interesting case, as that goal-to-assist ratio is unusual. I would say 25 goals puts you at a solid second liner, no doubt, even with fewer assists.

25 goals would have been a tie for 59th overall in the NHL this season. If we have a 2nd line winger who has only 58 NHL players ahead of them in goals, calling them a solid 2nd liner is pretty faint praise. If Jake is playing on our second line and scoring 25 goals in a season, we will be a Cup contender.

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:59 AM, NHL'er said:

You don't necessarily need to be a top 6 guy to play in the top 6.

Depending on how good his centre his (and chances are EP will be pretty damn good)  Jake can absolutely fit in a top 6 role imo.

 

Off the top of my head, I think of guys like Chris Kunitz and Alex Burrows who, in their heyday, would have been elite third liners but more than kept their on the first line playing with elite players such as Crosby and Sedins. So to say Jake is destined for the middle six is just as premature as saying he will be as good as Neely. 

This is such an on point post its almost hard to underscore enough!

 

Well said!

[Ballisticsports.]

6 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

25 goals would have been a tie for 59th overall in the NHL this season. If we have a 2nd line winger who has only 58 NHL players ahead of them in goals, calling them a solid 2nd liner is pretty faint praise. If Jake is playing on our second line and scoring 25 goals in a season, we will be a Cup contender.

Wow

We don't need anyone else on our team?

He is a one man team in himself in your eyes?

Maybe rename the Vancouver Canucks the Vancouver Virtanen  

 

Even Edmonton with McDavid (and a few other good players) did not make the playoffs

[WeneedLumme]

On May 16, 2018 at 11:23 PM, ba;;isticsports said:

Wow

We don't need anyone else on our team?

He is a one man team in himself in your eyes?

Maybe rename the Vancouver Canucks the Vancouver Virtanen  

 

Even Edmonton with McDavid (and a few other good players) did not make the playoffs

Second line wingers are usually the fifth and sixth best forwards on the team. If we have 4 or 5 forwards better than our 25 goal power forward, yes I believe that we will be contenders. Or is that too difficult for you to follow, obnoxious little fellow? I could try to explain it again with shorter words.

Edited May 18, 2018 by WeneedLumme

[kloubek]

13 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

Second line wingers are usually the fifth and sixth best forwards on the team. If we have 4 or 5 forwards better than a 25 goal power forward, yes I believe that we will be contenders. Or is that too difficult for you to follow, obnoxious little fellow? I could try to explain it again with shorter words.

I agree with your logic.  If he's scoring 25 goals that probably means about 60 points.  That's significant for a 2nd line winger.

 

I just don't think he gets there.  I HOPE he does and that he's just a late bloomer, but I maintain his lack of ability is largely in "thinking" the game, and I just don't think he does it at a particularly high enough level.  Here's hoping I'm wrong.

[WeneedLumme]

3 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I agree with your logic.  If he's scoring 25 goals that probably means about 60 points.  That's significant for a 2nd line winger.

 

I just don't think he gets there.  I HOPE he does and that he's just a late bloomer, but I maintain his lack of ability is largely in "thinking" the game, and I just don't think he does it at a particularly high enough level.  Here's hoping I'm wrong.

I agree that thinking the game is his weakest point, certainly compared to his other tools. But this year he continued to blossom, and he is still far too young to assume that he has reached his peak. When he is in his mid-twenties, if he is on a line with a good playmaker, it would not surprise me at all to see Jake have a 25-goal season.

[kloubek]

1 minute ago, WeneedLumme said:

I agree that thinking the game is his weakest point, certainly compared to his other tools. But this year he continued to blossom, and he is still far too young to assume that he has reached his peak. When he is in his mid-twenties, if he is on a line with a good playmaker, it would not surprise me at all to see Jake have a 25-goal season.

Oh, I am not claiming he has reached his peak.  I also saw the improvement, and believe he will continue to develop into a very solid player for us. I *would* be surprised to see him score 25 goals but my surprise certainly wouldn't be because of his lack of toolbox. The guy has mad skill. 

[Bissurnette]

19 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I agree with your logic.  If he's scoring 25 goals that probably means about 60 points.  That's significant for a 2nd line winger.

 

I just don't think he gets there.  I HOPE he does and that he's just a late bloomer, but I maintain his lack of ability is largely in "thinking" the game, and I just don't think he does it at a particularly high enough level.  Here's hoping I'm wrong.

25 goals does not mean 60 points. 25 goals means 25 goals. He could have like 5 assists all year... Shawn Matthias a few years ago I think had like 22 goals and 7 assists. Pure shooters often have more goals than assists.

 

EDIT: I am not saying that Shawn Matthias is a pure shooter. Also, just looked up his stats, he had 18G and 7A.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Vanuckles

[coastal.view]

11 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

25 goals does not mean 60 points. 25 goals means 25 goals. He could have like 5 assists all year... Shawn Matthias a few years ago I think had like 22 goals and 7 assists. Pure shooters often have more goals than assists.

 

EDIT: I am not saying that Shawn Matthias is a pure shooter. Also, just looked up his stats, he had 18G and 7A.

well we know for certain already that virt is not a pure shooter

only brock is

so there goes that theory

[WeneedLumme]

9 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

well we know for certain already that virt is not a pure shooter

only brock is

so there goes that theory

With the twins gone, Brock might be the best passer currently on the team. Calling him a pure shooter really shortchanges his playmaking ability.

[coastal.view]

2 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

With the twins gone, Brock might be the best passer currently on the team. Calling him a pure shooter really shortchanges his playmaking ability.

have you seen his shot?

he is a pure shooter

he sure can score with that shot

my comment was accurate and on point

sorry you have a problem with it

 

i never said he could not skate, pass, hit or anything else

i said he is a pure shooter..

jake is not

Edited May 18, 2018 by coastal.view

[Bissurnette]

1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

well we know for certain already that virt is not a pure shooter

only brock is

so there goes that theory

Wrong on both accounts. Brock is not a pure shooter, he can actually make plays and pass very well. He happens to have an excellent shot and he utilizes it.

 

Maybe you "know" that 21 year old Virtanen is not a pure shooter, but we do not all know that. What we do know is that he has a hard, deceptive shot with a quick release, albeit inaccurate. If he works on his accuracy I can definitely see him getting 20-25 goals a season, and 10-15 assists. That's only my projection, just like your projecting that he's not a shooter.

 

EDIT: I just read your other comment and I don't think you know what "pure shooter" means. It means a player looks to release a shot before looking to pass. Just think, opposite of Henrik Sedin. Jake may not be a sniper yet, but he's definitely a shoot first player - like Ovie. And no, I'm not saying Ovie and Jake are remotely on the same level.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Vanuckles