Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Hockey God]

I said it before in another thread, but it bears repeating.  The Jake we see today and what he could develop as his ceiling is a throwback to the garbage goal/front of the net types from the 80s.  Players who took a bit of time to develop, like Joel Otto in his prime, Craig Simpson and Dino Ciccarelli.  But, to bring it out fully, I think that the coaches need to assign Jake to a specific area on attack (say the three meters in front and to the side of the goalie; get there at all costs on every play) and a specific area on defense (his wing side from centre ice back to his net).  He has the speed to get to these areas ahead of the play in most instances, and by serving as an obstacle, not only can the play come to him, allowing him more time to react, but also it buys time for his teammates to act/react accordingly.  Unfortunately, Coach Green seems to see zone play with marked men as the correct style most of the time.  Let Jake rove a bit, and the points will come alongside his development as a more complete player.          

[Rob_Zepp]

On 4/29/2019 at 3:32 PM, skategal said:

Some might argue that Jake is already a success.  He's one of very few players to actually make it to the NHL which is the top tier hockey league in the world.  Bear in mind that he is 22.  22!!!  How many of us had our life completely figured out and had maxed out on our potential by that age?   Jakob Markstrom if you want to compare is 29, and only this season arguably played to what most thought his potential was.  

It would be great if we could just step back a bit and cheer on our team without imposing our expectations on every kid.   We talk about watching our team grow, but if players don't meet our lofty expectations, we want to dump them for the next shiny thing, assuming that newer shiny is going to be better than slightly used but still shiny.  

I hope that Jake continues to improve every season.  I hope he remains a Canuck for at least a couple more years.  I think he's going to need to experience a playoff series to truly understand how much he can contribute with his size and speed.  

STOP using logic.

 

Blake Wheeler was 22 before his first NHL shift - and he was a first rounder, number 5 overall.   

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Here's the thing I neither dislike or like him. It's not a factor and yeah he will play in the NHL as a middle line player. Was he a waste of a pick at #6 O/A absolutely. I wish him well. His salary is indicative of his value alongside his pears  .... a sort of yardstick. I'd tend to think he was a wasted selection and this team could be way ahead of its current standing with a better pick at that spot, heck McCann is better and they took him at the 26th slot (?)  I don't want to saddle other more skilled players with JV, he reduces their effectiveness ..... IMO

Wasted pick is a bit harsh but he certainly wasn't the best selection... in hindsight. The hindsight draft game makes us all experts; to be completely honest I would rather him than the player selected before or after him at this point (Dal Colle/Nylander). Even Ehlers is getting paid 6M now and has done next to nothing in the playoffs on a very good team, though him and Nylander have showed well in regular season but at their current salaries they may not be great value if they continue to plateau. I don't understand what your expectations are for a young player. You say he "bombed" last year and the Canucks should "cut bait" if he does it again... I don't know if scoring the 4th most goals on your team is bombing and deserving of being cut loose.

 

It is waaaaay to early to give up on him. He is trending in the right direction and is only what 22/23 years old?

[Ballisticsports.]

On 5/8/2019 at 2:37 PM, Canucks Curse said:

he will never be a burrows, burrows had great hockey IQ, which is why he meshed with the sedins, Burrows had the will to persevere, and was a player who would sacrifice anything, Virtanen is much towards the other end of the spectrum, has all the physical tools and one can argue Burrows lacked some god-given physical tools but absolutely maximized what he was given, Virtanen - many god given gifts, trouble putting it together

Burrows- lacked materials- all the right tools

Virtanen- has all the materials- lacks some tools 

I think the biggest thing he lacks besides hockey iq and keeping it simple and drive to the net is Passion

Burrows had passion and worked hard for any edge he could gain on more skilled players

Horvat has it

EP has it

[HorvatToBaertschi]

12 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Here's the thing I neither dislike or like him. It's not a factor and yeah he will play in the NHL as a middle line player. Was he a waste of a pick at #6 O/A absolutely. I wish him well. His salary is indicative of his value alongside his pears  .... a sort of yardstick. I'd tend to think he was a wasted selection and this team could be way ahead of its current standing with a better pick at that spot, heck McCann is better and they took him at the 26th slot (?)  I don't want to saddle other more skilled players with JV, he reduces their effectiveness ..... IMO

Honestly at this point, just accept that had we gotten better (and I’m not saying that it’s absolutely true that had we taken WN or NE we would be ahead), we wouldn’t have gotten EP. 

EP + JV + OJ >>>>>>>>>> everything else 

All the roads we took led us to Pettersson, and there’s no point wishing anything had been done differently. 

I also don’t know how you can blatantly say McCann is better when he scored a measly 4 more points than him. While he played with much better players than JV. 

For god’s sake has JV ever played with the likes of Gino or Crosby? 

JV has a much better toolbox for our needs than McCann, and that’s coming from a guy who really liked him in his stint with us. Nitpicking stats won’t do much in your McCann vs Virtanen argument. 

Sutter is a black hole offensively. Funny how he’s JV’s go-to centerman. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by HorvatToBaertschi

[NewbieCanuckFan]

15 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

STOP using logic.

 

Blake Wheeler was 22 before his first NHL shift - and he was a first rounder, number 5 overall.   

To be fair it didn’t seem like Wheeler wanted to play for the organization that drafted him.  Yotes offered him a max ELC contract but he refused to sign.  Different situation than Virtanen.  Wheeler couldn’t obviously play anywhere else in the NHL as the Yotes still owned his rights for a few years.

[Ballisticsports.]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

To be fair it didn’t seem like Wheeler wanted to play for the organization that drafted him.  Yotes offered him a max ELC contract but he refused to sign.  Different situation than Virtanen.  Wheeler couldn’t obviously play anywhere else in the NHL as the Yotes still owned his rights for a few years.

Not familiar with Wheelers story, but  maybe not being rushed to the NHL and being hungry and feeling he had no entitlement(as maybe he thought)? had something to do with it and realizing that soon being 22 without playing in the NHLhe'd be playing for peanuts overseas compared to the NHL and living the dream 

[JeremyCuddles]

17 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

STOP using logic.

 

Blake Wheeler was 22 before his first NHL shift - and he was a first rounder, number 5 overall.   

He was a college player though, right? If so it's a bit different, I am sure Wheeler was good enough to play in the NHL before that. 

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Honestly at this point, just accept that had we gotten better , we wouldn’t have gotten EP. 

EP + JV + OJ >>>>>>>>>> everything else 

All the roads we took led us to Pettersson, and there’s no point wishing anything had been done differently. 

I also don’t know how you can blatantly say McCann is better when he scored a measly 4 more points than him. While he played with much better players than JV. 

For god’s sake has JV ever played with the likes of Gino or Crosby? 

JV has a much better toolbox for our needs than McCann, and that’s coming from a guy who really liked him in his stint with us. Nitpicking stats won’t do much in your McCann vs Virtanen argument. 

Sutter is a black hole offensively. Funny how he’s JV’s go-to centerman. 

 

I'm really glad we have EP.  He's a serious superstar.  However, drafting Jake, has nothing to do with us getting EP.  Maybe we draft Pastrnak, and we end up just missing the playoffs, but win the draft lottery (number 3 pick) and we still get EP?  

I understand what you're thinking, but believe there are just too many moving parts that determine draft order (and who we pick) to predict we wouldn't get EP, unless we drafted Jake.  

[Ballisticsports.]

7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Honestly at this point, just accept that had we gotten better (and I’m not saying that it’s absolutely true that had we taken WN or NE we would be ahead), we wouldn’t have gotten EP. 

EP + JV + OJ >>>>>>>>>> everything else 

All the roads we took led us to Pettersson, and there’s no point wishing anything had been done differently. 

I also don’t know how you can blatantly say McCann is better when he scored a measly 4 more points than him. While he played with much better players than JV. 

For god’s sake has JV ever played with the likes of Gino or Crosby? 

JV has a much better toolbox for our needs than McCann, and that’s coming from a guy who really liked him in his stint with us. Nitpicking stats won’t do much in your McCann vs Virtanen argument. 

Sutter is a black hole offensively. Funny how he’s JV’s go-to centerman. 

Maybe without a lottery system

You can't say we couldn't have got these players

 

But it is pointless to say wish we would have taken so and so

Just like it is pointess and untrue to say, if we had, we wouldn't have got so and so in a lottery sytem

Heck maybe we'd be like the Flyers and jumped to the top then

Who knows, it is what it is

 

I would have rather taken Tzachuk and a defenceman next year 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Not familiar with Wheelers story, but  maybe not being rushed to the NHL and being hungry and feeling he had no entitlement(as maybe he thought)? had something to do with it and realizing that soon being 22 without playing in the NHLhe'd be playing for peanuts overseas compared to the NHL and living the dream 

I don't know his story either (my post is therefore just assumptions made by me).  I just assume he didn't want to play for the Yotes at the time for whatever reason.  He was offered a max ELC deal (so the issue wasn't money - nobody else could pay him more). The Yotes are a lottery pick and then had a solid coach in Tippett (so he'd know he'd be given every chance to make the roster - as a lottery pick team will have spots open).

[NewbieCanuckFan]

...nevermind (double post).

Edited May 10, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Honestly at this point, just accept that had we gotten better (and I’m not saying that it’s absolutely true that had we taken WN or NE we would be ahead), we wouldn’t have gotten EP. 

So are you giving credit to Gillis for leaving nothing for Benning when he took over?  Because that's a BIGGER reason why we finished low enough to draft EP in the first place.  Assume Gillis was able to draft a few top six forwards *IN LIKE SIX YEARS OF DRAFTING*, that likely would've meant say half a dozen more wins.  So we draft much, much further down in that draft (and no EP).  Gillis was a genius!  (insert sarcasm emoticon ).

Edited May 10, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Alflives]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

So are you giving credit to Gillis for leaving nothing for Benning when he took over?  Because that's a BIGGER reason why we finished low enough to draft EP in the first place.  Assume Gillis was able to draft a few top six forward *IN LIKE SIX YEARS OF DRAFTING*, that likely would've meant say half a dozen more wins.  So we draft much, much further down in that draft (and no EP).  Gillis was a genius!  (insert sarcasm emoticon ).

Excellent point about Gillis getting us EP.  What if Gillis FOOLISHLY drafted Ryan O'Reilly instead of Schroeder?  My God!  That would have for sure buried any chance of getting EP.  Thank you Gillis for seeing a 12 year old EP playing on a frozen lake in the back woods of Sweden, and realizing it's best to draft crap now, so we can get EP later.  It's too bad that Gillis had to watch another GM fulfill his dream.  

[guntrix]

23 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

He was a college player though, right? If so it's a bit different, I am sure Wheeler was good enough to play in the NHL before that. 

Basically this. Wheeler already had 3 good NCAA seasons under his belt before debuting with the Bruins. Let’s not go looking for far-fetched comparables to make ourselves feel better. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, guntrix said:

Basically this. Wheeler already had 3 good NCAA seasons under his belt before debuting with the Bruins. Let’s not go looking for far-fetched comparables to make ourselves feel better. 

Wheeler is an assist machine. His puck skills, and vision are way beyond where Jake will ever get to.  However, Jake is faster, and hits way harder.  Jake will be a difference maker in other ways than Wheeler.  

[Rob_Zepp]

10 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

To be fair it didn’t seem like Wheeler wanted to play for the organization that drafted him.  Yotes offered him a max ELC contract but he refused to sign.  Different situation than Virtanen.  Wheeler couldn’t obviously play anywhere else in the NHL as the Yotes still owned his rights for a few years.

Not arguing any of that - point is, 22 is not an old hockey player and for some reason some seem fixated on not letting players develop beyond that age.

[Rob_Zepp]

7 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

He was a college player though, right? If so it's a bit different, I am sure Wheeler was good enough to play in the NHL before that. 

As was Virtanen - evidenced by doing so.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

15 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Not arguing any of that - point is, 22 is not an old hockey player and for some reason some seem fixated on not letting players develop beyond that age.

I can't argue with that.

.

.

.

.

.

but I will.

.

.

.

.

.

(just kidding )

[JeremyCuddles]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

As was Virtanen - evidenced by doing so.

He wasn't a college player, and he was not ready for the NHL when he was played there his rookie season. Lol. As evidenced by the fact he was sent down to the AHL the season after his rookie year.

Edited May 11, 2019 by N7Nucks