Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 5 hours ago, alfstonker said: Jake IS young but he has been gifted a man's body at 19. For some prospects that can be difficult and put extra pressure on them to automatically have everything else that goes with an NHL/AHL sized player. Specifically the cerebral part, the hockey IQ. If Jake was 180 lbs and 6'-0" we would not be having this debate. Anyone who saw Jake in Vancouver would have realised it's his IQ which is immature. Knowing where to go, when to step in, when to pass, when to shoot, when to defend etc. All these things are not so obvious when you are playing against boys with a man's body. They need to be developed, coached and encouraged. I have no doubt it will come but it will take time. What I don't like is that JB imo has made a mistake with Jake. The kind of mistake Buffalo made with Zack, however it is not too late to rectify it and get him back on track, which should be another season in the minors and at least one season under Green in Utica. I can blame CDC for all the clamour to put Jake in the NHL but JB should have known better. I think if handled patiently (like Gaunce, Grenier, Shink) Jake will be a hugely important player for us 3 years down the line but JB must stop this tendency to rush prospects or we risk setting back their confidence and their development. Ironically you can tell Willie doesn't really like it and he gets vilified on here for it, while JB is praised for forcing young prospects into the team. The fact is Gaunce and maybe Grenier and Jensen/Shink/Archie should have been the players called up to Vancouver but maybe JB wants his own drafts in, I doubt it but who knows. There is another factor here. After the next draft we will be promoting more players into Utica. If we are not promoting Utica players to Vancouver then we will never know whether they have what it takes or if they are just taking up someone else's place. Willie is imo a good coach and I would like to see what he could do with Jensen, Gaunce and Grenier. I would have liked to see what he could do with Archie too but we now don't own him so that would be difficult. You can't cheat the system. JB is trying to accelerate a process just because of the vacuum created in 20-24 year old players caused by Gillis's failures and if he doesn't watch out it could backfire massively. Worse still it could set some good young prospects back in their development. *slow clap* Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Based on what exactly? 0 points in 3 games? Matthews a supposed generational talent only has 2 points in 2 games. Debrincat 0 points. Sanheim, McKeown, Fleury, Hickey, Perlini all 0 points. Stop putting so much emphasis on a frigging WJC. Especially over 3 games. This does not now nor has it EVER dictated what kind of career a player will have. The amount of players who have lit up the WJC only to do less than nothing in their careers is massive. So if you're concerned, I for am happy. It gives you something to do besides post endless line and defensive pairings. But this is for everyone. If you're basing a barely 19 year old kids entire career off of 3 whole games in the WJC, less than 40 games in the NHL than you need to go find a frigging hobby. In fact, here's some fun stats. 75 games played, 12 goals, 21 assists -10. This player was famously quoted as being a waste for his supposed skill and was almost traded halfway through his rookie season for a skilled Islander. Props to you if you can guess the player, bigger props if you got to watch his rookie season. And further props if you understand the point am trying to make. Simply put, if you think 3 WJC games will tell you everything about a players career, you're the exact kind of guy who was happy with the Hodgson/Schroeder picks as well right? Indeed well said! Virtanen is usually in good position and is getting his chances. I see a lot of youth at play and many missed opportunities. Virtanen can control board play and is a net presence that teams have to deal with. I am hoping he ups the physical play a touch. Coach obviously sees something as he continues on the PP and is on the ice for Canada goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 5 hours ago, alfstonker said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Indeed well said! Virtanen is usually in good position and is getting his chances. I see a lot of youth at play and many missed opportunities. Virtanen can control board play and is a net presence that teams have to deal with. I am hoping he ups the physical play a touch. Coach obviously sees something as he continues on the PP and is on the ice for Canada goals. He needs time, he needs at least 2-3 years of development. I don't see people whinging about Cassels, Subban or anyone. Last year it was Gaunce and Shinkaruk the year before it was player X and Y. This gets old fast But hey! Just saw that Boeser has 0 points in 2 games...none of the hate or substantial yet unsaid hope he busts based off of that. This fan base is bad and they should feel bad. Virtanen 0 points in 3 games...be concerned. Boeser 0 points 2 games, cannot wait to see him play!! Some of you people are laughably simple. Edited December 30, 2015 by Warhippy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 8 minutes ago, Warhippy said: He needs time, he needs at least 2-3 years of development. I don't see people whinging about Cassels, Subban or anyone. Last year it was Gaunce and Shinkaruk the year before it was player X and Y. This gets old fast But hey! Just saw that Boeser has 0 points in 2 games...none of the hate or substantial yet unsaid hope he busts based off of that. This fan base is bad and they should feel bad. Virtanen 0 points in 3 games...be concerned. Boeser 0 points 2 games, cannot wait to see him play!! Some of you people are laughably simple. No one is complaining about production. For most of the tournament virtanen has been invisible. For the most part when he was noticable he was turning the puck over. He's had his moments obviously. Boeser on the other haND has 1 hear less development, chosen almost 20 spots later. Sour yeah the expectations are different. Plus he's actually played well.most of the tournament. Not to mention it's his first wjc. This is virtanen second. He's expected to do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babych Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Warhippy said: In fact, here's some fun stats. 75 games played, 12 goals, 21 assists -10. This player was famously quoted as being a waste for his supposed skill and was almost traded halfway through his rookie season for a skilled Islander. Alright, I give up. Who you talkin' 'bout Hippy? Edited December 30, 2015 by babych 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Just now, babych said: Alright, I give up. Who you talkin' 'bout Hippy? same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) NVM. wasn't his rookie season Edited December 30, 2015 by Gstank29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Gstank29 said: Hide contents http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=369 Ah. It's actually 76 games played, 18 goals and 21 assists, -14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 19 minutes ago, Warhippy said: He needs time, he needs at least 2-3 years of development. I don't see people whinging about Cassels, Subban or anyone. Last year it was Gaunce and Shinkaruk the year before it was player X and Y. This gets old fast But hey! Just saw that Boeser has 0 points in 2 games...none of the hate or substantial yet unsaid hope he busts based off of that. This fan base is bad and they should feel bad. Virtanen 0 points in 3 games...be concerned. Boeser 0 points 2 games, cannot wait to see him play!! Some of you people are laughably simple. Come on guys feel bad, we are suppose to feel bad after reading this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Odd. said: Ah. It's actually 76 games played, 18 goals and 21 assists, -14. Bertuzzi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: Bertuzzi? Thats what i thought, but he wasn't traded in his rookie season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Just now, Gstank29 said: Thats what i thought, but he wasn't traded in his rookie season I never said that this player WAS traded, almost traded. And his name was Messier. Oilers brass went on to say that they felt he was not the player they had hoped and the rumours were there was a trade in the works to send him to the Islanders. It never materialized and it was never more than a rumour. This was in December of Messier's rookie year in the NHL. Fancy that...they gave him time instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 9 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: Come on guys feel bad, we are suppose to feel bad after reading this post I don't give 2 randy sharts what you saucy muppets think. Demanding perfection and generation status after 3 WJC games and less than 40 NHL games is laughably pathetic. You want more but won't be patient. It's a joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't know what people were expecting. A generational player overnight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 21 minutes ago, Gooseberries said: No one is complaining about production. For most of the tournament virtanen has been invisible. For the most part when he was noticable he was turning the puck over. He's had his moments obviously. Boeser on the other haND has 1 hear less development, chosen almost 20 spots later. Sour yeah the expectations are different. Plus he's actually played well.most of the tournament. Not to mention it's his first wjc. This is virtanen second. He's expected to do more. He has been far from invisible. People are just expecting far far more than he is currently capable of delivering. He is barely 19 years old and he is doing what his coach wants at the moment as evidenced by him playing so many minutes in the 3rd last game. NOBODY on TC is currently playing the game we are accustomed to seeing from our world junior teams, but I don't see anyone harping on Sanheim 0 points, Konecny 1 point, McKoewn 0 Points, Hickey 0 points and on and on. Virtanen though...frigging waste of a pick amirite? Boeser though, doesn't matter when he was picked. Virtanen had the EXACT same hate last year as well simply based on where he was picked. Boeser also plays against men basically in the NCAA leagues. Why is he not recieving the same critique? because he was picked almost 20 spots later? That's a sad and piss poor argument. His first WJC? So what, again the WJC is NOT, repeat NOT the end all be all in dictating how a guys career is going to pan out because some of the best players in the league today either did nothing in the WJC or weren't even invited It baffles me how frigging demanding and fast food/instant gratification this forum is, yet forget that Hodgson/Schroeder and so many more were standouts in the WJC and now barely have jobs in the NHL Bottom line, and I cannot stress this enough. It is evident Jake has the toolbox, he needs 2-3 seasons the same way Gaunce/Shunkaruk and others are getting before being thrown to the wolves, the WJC is NOT going to show us how his entire 10-20 year career will end up and that this fan base is as stable as a sack of rats in a burning meth lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Nevermind. Edited December 30, 2015 by Canorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Qwags said: I don't know what people were expecting. A generational player overnight? He was picked 6th...like such greats as Brule, Filatov, Rico Fata, Montoya and Brassard of course...they only remember the Coffeys and Forsbergs not the reality of the situation that we're as likely to have a MIkko Koivu as a Peter Forsberg and as such refuse to temper their expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 9 minutes ago, Warhippy said: He was picked 6th...like such greats as Brule, Filatov, Rico Fata, Montoya and Brassard of course...they only remember the Coffeys and Forsbergs not the reality of the situation that we're as likely to have a MIkko Koivu as a Peter Forsberg and as such refuse to temper their expectations. And even then, JV turning out like MK would be a win in my books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Warhippy said: He has been far from invisible. People are just expecting far far more than he is currently capable of delivering. He is barely 19 years old and he is doing what his coach wants at the moment as evidenced by him playing so many minutes in the 3rd last game. NOBODY on TC is currently playing the game we are accustomed to seeing from our world junior teams, but I don't see anyone harping on Sanheim 0 points, Konecny 1 point, McKoewn 0 Points, Hickey 0 points and on and on. Virtanen though...frigging waste of a pick amirite? Boeser though, doesn't matter when he was picked. Virtanen had the EXACT same hate last year as well simply based on where he was picked. Boeser also plays against men basically in the NCAA leagues. Why is he not recieving the same critique? because he was picked almost 20 spots later? That's a sad and piss poor argument. His first WJC? So what, again the WJC is NOT, repeat NOT the end all be all in dictating how a guys career is going to pan out because some of the best players in the league today either did nothing in the WJC or weren't even invited It baffles me how frigging demanding and fast food/instant gratification this forum is, yet forget that Hodgson/Schroeder and so many more were standouts in the WJC and now barely have jobs in the NHL Bottom line, and I cannot stress this enough. It is evident Jake has the toolbox, he needs 2-3 seasons the same way Gaunce/Shunkaruk and others are getting before being thrown to the wolves, the WJC is NOT going to show us how his entire 10-20 year career will end up and that this fan base is as stable as a sack of rats in a burning meth lab. He's been playing poorly for the most part. The criticism has been justified. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion who are you to belittle all those who share a different one than you? As for those who are predicting Jake's career based on this tournament, that's not recommended. Like you said how could you do that. I will say that he hasn't had a good year with the Canucks. And hasn't had a very good showing in this tournament so far. Let's hope his 3rd period last game is what we see more of going forward. Edited December 30, 2015 by Gooseberries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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