Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, Derp... said:

Hey Everybody. I know there are lots of people on the JV is not doing as well as I want train in the AHL. There is of course some good reasoning for this, but I want to bring a couple things to your attention to help ease the pain. There is a reason both his coach and our GM are saying good things about Virtanen right now. Especially when we look at his peer group in the AHL this season.

Firstly there are 63 players between 19 and 21 in the AHL this year that have played more than 10 games. Let's look at the 5 on 5 stats for those players and see where Jake lines up.

First up Primary Assists Per 60 at 5v5:

Jake has 7 A1's this year, and is currently producing 0.84 A1's/60 that is 10th best out of 63 players some younger and older than him. Better than guys like, Barbashev, Dal Colle, McCann, Svechnikov, Gurianov, Goldobin, Fiala, Milano, Fischer, Meier, Scherbak, Kapanen, K. Connor, Roslovic, Schmaltz, Kempe, Vrana, Perlini, and more. Just take that in for a sec. Virtanen, the so called low hockey sense player is producing more primary assists at 5v5 than guys like Fiala, Goldobin, and Meier. That is a good sign if I ever saw one no?

Let's look at Secondary Assists per 60 5v5 (Also known as the great inflator):

Jake has produced only 0.24 A2's per 60. which is 17th lowest out of the 63 players at 5v5. I know it seems weird to think that less A2's is better than more, but it shows that Jake isn't benefiting from his linemates creating goals on their own so much. While other players are getting more help from teammates at 5v5 such as Barbashev, McCann, Svechnikov, Gurianov, Goldobin, Fiala, Milano, Fischer, Meier, Scherbak, K. Connor, Roslovic, Schmaltz, Vrana, Perlini, and more.

What about the lack of Goals?

It is a concern, but Jakes also been unlucky this year. He's averaging 2.27 shots per game in all situations, that's good for 14th best despite his limited power play time. He's also sporting the 7th worst shooting percentage at 4.5% which is not sustainable in my opinion. For comparison, the top goals/60 players in all situations have shooting percentages that range from 9% (Fiala) to 28.5%! (Perlini). 13 players have a shooting percentage more than 3X what Jake has currently. 45 have more than double Jakes Sh%. The average shooting percentage is 11.1%. If Jake had the average shooting percentage he would have 12 goals this year. The average amount of goals for all 63 players is currently 8.43 in all situations. 8 even strength goals would put him in the top 15 for goals total and the top 15 for goals per 60 at evens.

All together Jake is performing better than average at 5v5 in 6 areas while being younger than the average 19-21 year old in the AHL with less than average ice time by about 3-4 shifts.

 

• Primary Assists Total
• A1/GP
• A1/60
• QOT is slightly worse than average
• Shots per game (14th best with 2.27, avg. is 1.76)
• Shots/60 is 13.26 that is tied for 4th best with DeBrusk (Only Fiala, Perlini, and Kapanen have better shots per 60)
   

As you can see although the points aren't there yet, Jake Virtanen is actually performing pretty well with his peer group in certain areas in the AHL. Don't be all Doom and Gloom! He's been a bit unlucky, but is still generating offense in a positive way.

Stats from http://prospect-stats.com/AHL/2016/forwards/?state_selected=5v5

How frigging DARE you come in here with your facts and fact based reasoning.

 

We have people here with opinions and reasons based on reading HF forums.

 

Isn't it obvious that we don't have room for your truths when we have endless pages of alt facts instead

 

Take yer truth and get out, that's right.  Get out.

 

Smarmy statistical based evidence with scientific facts and proven numbers pffft

 

NYLANDERZ EHLERZ!!!!

 

[Tyndall2]

He would be a good piece to add to a trade puzzle if the right deal was to be had.  The Canucks have had too many of these type of draft picks, waiting to hopefully develop in the minors.  Seldom happens with the Canucks.  Part of the blame has to go to our scouting and poor picks at the draft.  

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Tyndall2 said:

He would be a good piece to add to a trade puzzle if the right deal was to be had.  The Canucks have had too many of these type of draft picks, waiting to hopefully develop in the minors.  Seldom happens with the Canucks.  Part of the blame has to go to our scouting and poor picks at the draft.  

Got to agree, but (at this point) what real value does Jake have?  Maybe it's best to ride it out for another year, and see if he can become a Jannik Hansen instead of a Jack Skille?

Edited March 13, 2017 by Alflives

[JM_]

On February 10, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Alflives said:

Baer put up those numbers in the AHL?  That's 2 points/game!  

Benning stole Baer from cow-gary. But those monster #s were when he was in Portland, not the AHL (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120612)

[Warhippy]

17 minutes ago, Tyndall2 said:

He would be a good piece to add to a trade puzzle if the right deal was to be had.  The Canucks have had too many of these type of draft picks, waiting to hopefully develop in the minors.  Seldom happens with the Canucks.  Part of the blame has to go to our scouting and poor picks at the draft.  

Aaaactually and in all honesty, we've not had a player like Virtanen that we've ever developed and seen through.  We've always traded them.  We've had numerous Schroeder/Rodin type players but never really anyone like Virtanen.

 

And as our development program is barely in to its 3rd year it's kinda hard to say what will happen when we start developing prospects properly.  The last set of prospects we actually did develop long term was

 

Schneider, Bieksa, Kesler, Burrows, Hansen and that was on a shared team in the Moose, the Wolves were just a horrible idea and now we've full control over Utica whom we raid mercilessly.

 

Adding him in as part of a trade deal now is just a bad idea without knowing who/what he'll be when almost everyone universally agrees he's never actually had to be or has ever been developed at any point; instead coasting on his physical attributes.

 

I myself would rather keep him as he'll have more value to us long term than as a throw away added value in a trade.

[Gaudette Celly]

6 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Maybe WD does talk to Green, and Green basically has said he's not ready, and still learning? 

He's where they want him -- learning and developing his game.  No point to start bouncing him around, especially not back here with the immediate distractions of home.  He's making progress, let's not spoil it.

[Honky Cat]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Could Willie have pretty much ruined our highest draft pick since the 90's?  There was a 20 game stretch in 2016, when Jake came back from the WJHC and he played really well.  It was like Willie gave Jake freedom to play Jake's naturally aggressive game, and it was fun to see.  Then, Willie just sat Jake in his attempt to make a playoff push or something.  

While I'm no fan of stubborn Willie's deployment....(no player,not even Sidney Crosby can really get into a game only playing 8 minutes a night)...In WD's defence,it wasn't his fault that Virtanen wasn't in proper shape to start the season.....In hindsight,he should have been sent to Utica after training camp (he injured his shoulder in the first exhibition game,and demonstrated nothing after that).

[Beary Sweet]

Jake has been playing well in last few games I've caught with Utica. He has been forechecking, backchecking well so while he has been struggling offensively this season, he has been improving in other aspects of his game that he didn't have before like being more aware defensively.  Also he's been joining the attack and creating chances so once the points start coming, the floodgates will probably open. Just give him some time to season his game in Utica and it will come by itself. Hope you don't give up on him yet. He's still young and he will be a stud.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Beary Sweet

[garthsbutcher]

4 hours ago, Tyndall2 said:

He would be a good piece to add to a trade puzzle if the right deal was to be had.  The Canucks have had too many of these type of draft picks, waiting to hopefully develop in the minors.  Seldom happens with the Canucks.  Part of the blame has to go to our scouting and poor picks at the draft.  

The Canucks have NO draft picks like Virtanen in the system

 

[RetroCanuck]

On 6/27/2014 at 4:55 PM, Ossi Vaananen said:

THAT'S MY BOY, YOU EHLERS FANS CAN SUCK IT!

As much as I like Virtanen, are you taking this back now?

[Jam126]

4 hours ago, Tyndall2 said:

He would be a good piece to add to a trade puzzle if the right deal was to be had.  The Canucks have had too many of these type of draft picks, waiting to hopefully develop in the minors.  Seldom happens with the Canucks.  Part of the blame has to go to our scouting and poor picks at the draft.  

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Ted Lasso]

It's especially tough to be patient when his size & skillset is sorely needed today, but power forwards take longer to develop.

 

When he's ready, I look forward to him complimenting the smaller skill guys we've acquired.

 

Next meaningful checkpoint is training camp. If he looks good, bunk him with a character veteran to help him develop into a pro. 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Beary Sweet said:

Jake has been playing well in last few games I've caught with Utica. He has been forechecking, backchecking well so while he has been struggling offensively this season, he has been improving in other aspects of his game that he didn't have before like being more aware defensively.  Also he's been joining the attack and creating chances so once the points start coming, the floodgates will probably open. Just give him some time to season his game in Utica and it will come by itself. Hope you don't give up on him yet. He's still young and he will be a stud.

i haven't given up on him! 

i think it's a great sign that he's growing his game, and improving, even if his offense hasn't come 'round yet. 

forechecking, backchecking, being aggressive, are all elements of his game that he's finding again, that wasn't necessarily the case when he first got down there. i think the adversity he's facing now, is preparing him well for his future. 

i'm extremely curious to see how the offensive parts of his game will grow next season. i'm hoping that the next steps in his development will be to think the game better, and using his linemates more creatively, and being smart with the players he's being deployed with. 

 

[JustABandwagoner]

7 hours ago, Warhippy said:

How frigging DARE you come in here with your facts and fact based reasoning.

 

We have people here with opinions and reasons based on reading HF forums.

 

Isn't it obvious that we don't have room for your truths when we have endless pages of alt facts instead

 

Take yer truth and get out, that's right.  Get out.

 

Smarmy statistical based evidence with scientific facts and proven numbers pffft

 

NYLANDERZ EHLERZ!!!!

 

Dats right 

 

Nylanderz Ehlerz >>>>>>>> Jake Virtanen 

 

 

U read my mind very well. 

[Shinkorvat]

13 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

You're such a little rat, I know you are taking shots at me.  I provided you with plenty of statistics and facts in the Juolevi thread and you completely ignored them, every time I prove you wrong you just run away or you just make something up.  Now you're over here taking shots at me like a coward.  What's with this Nylanerz Ehlerz stuff?  Talking in capitals.  Aren't you like 50?  Stop talking like a child 

 

You don't know anything when it comes to evaluating talent, you spew the same old crappy cliche in every thread.  I can guarantee you have never laced them up for a single game of competitive hockey in your life.  The only little bit of hockey knowledge you have is because you have been watching it on t.v for the last 40 years, congrats you're a genius.  

 

Stop acting like a punk just because you don't like my posts.  

Pretty sure he's being sarcastic, hence that emoticon at then end of the post lol

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

You're such a little rat, I know you are taking shots at me.  I provided you with plenty of statistics and facts in the Juolevi thread and you completely ignored them, every time I prove you wrong you just run away or you just make something up.  Now you're over here taking shots at me like a coward.  What's with this Nylanerz Ehlerz stuff?  Talking in capitals.  Aren't you like 50?  Stop talking like a child 

 

You don't know anything when it comes to evaluating talent, you spew the same old crappy cliche in every thread.  I can guarantee you have never laced them up for a single game of competitive hockey in your life.  The only little bit of hockey knowledge you have is because you have been watching it on t.v for the last 40 years, congrats you're a genius.  

 

Stop acting like a punk just because you don't like my posts.  

 

IIRC the time change always makes the children grumpy

[Warhippy]

Just now, Shinkorvat said:

Pretty sure he's being sarcastic, hence that emoticon at then end of the post lol

Durned facts again

[10pavelbure96]

This guy I work with used to live in Calgary and his parents used to run this hockey camp thing and he said that he met Jake a few times when he played with the hit men and that he had a horrible personality.  Acted like he was better than everyone. This is just one guys opinion and this was also years ago, but hopefully Jake can shake the attitude as well. (If he hasn't already)

[Alflives]

Just now, 10pavelbure96 said:

This guy I work with used to live in Calgary and his parents used to run this hockey camp thing and he said that he met Jake a few times when he played with the hit men and that he had a horrible personality.  Acted like he was better than everyone. This is just one guys opinion and this was also years ago, but hopefully Jake can shake the attitude as well. (If he hasn't already)

We hear JB drafts FIRST for character, and then we keep hearing a lot of character flaws in Virtanen.  Why did JB draft this kid, who CLEARLY has such obvious character issues?  It makes no sense, right?  Every other JB pick is a guy of really strong character, and then there's Jake.  

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

This guy I work with used to live in Calgary and his parents used to run this hockey camp thing and he said that he met Jake a few times when he played with the hit men and that he had a horrible personality.  Acted like he was better than everyone. This is just one guys opinion and this was also years ago, but hopefully Jake can shake the attitude as well. (If he hasn't already)

That's about the single common consensus thing we hear.  Similar to what people said about E. Kane in junior.

 

Personally I could care less as long as he plays.  I'd take a bad attitude or two if it means success in the playoffs.

 

But the culture that's engendered with this team won't allow for that.  Even Keslers attitude was kept under wrap for almost a decade