Junkyard Dog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Because realistically he's a #4 D on a good team. Probably. Although he's trending toward being around a #2/3 D on any "good team" and an anchor for a defensive/shutdown pairing. And as much as I'd have preferred a lower AAV, after looking over the charts for several of the league's "good teams" it's quite common to see #4's making something in the $3-3.5-4 million range, with most of those guys on soon to expire deals and likely looking at $4-5 million (some even more) on their next extension. As such, I can live with Tanev at $4.45 for five years. I'm happy to have him locked in, for the most part, so long as he can learn to avoid taking so many hits (which is my biggest concern with Tanev, especially now that he has an injury history that includes head/brain trauma). This season, his "hits differential" is 169 hits taken and only 21 hits thrown. That's the 7th most hits taken by any defenseman in the NHL in 2014-15 and his -148 ("hits thrown" minus "hits taken") is the #1 worst differential in the league (among defensemen--and likely among all skaters, although I haven't checked). Over the past five seasons, he's been hit 626 times, and only throw 80 hits. While Tanev's "hits thrown" numbers don't really bother me--that's just not part of his game--the "hits taken" have always been a concern. Just by "eye test" I've always hated the way he seems to get crunched so often, and usually in the dangerous areas of the ice for defenseman. Hopefully he learns to get those numbers down because we're "married" to him long-term now. But to be clear, that "marriage" is a good thing IMHO. I just hope he can stay healthy and effective over the duration. EDIT: stats from War on Ice: http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Size and grit are overrated, all I care about is effectiveness. Simply put, Tanev is put out against the top players from each team on a nightly basis and prevents shots and goals better than almost any defenseman in the league. How he gets it done doesn't concern me. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 No ntc? You know what this means... he'll be in every proposal for the next few years Makes no difference.... Higgens, Hansen, Burrows, Garrison, Hamhuis, Bieksa all says hi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangunner Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 You do realize that Gillis first signed Tanev? This ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 If Tanev were a 40+ point defenseman on top of being elite defensively, he'd be in the conversation for the Norris and commanding Pietrangelo/Karlsson/Subban money. I don't know how anyone could expect him to get less than 4M on a long term deal knowing what other top defenseman in his age range are getting. Johnson - AAV 4.357 Million Shattenkirk - AAV 4.25 Million Giordano - AAV 4.02 Million Muzzin - AAV 4 million Martinez - AAV 4 Million Hedman - AAV 4 Million Josi - AAV 4 Million Fowler - AAV 4 Million Staal - AAV 3.975 Million I am curious to know which Player would you NOT trade Tanev straight up for on this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zverta Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Replying to an earlier post. Too much money on the back end, have to move one d-man. I say Edler stays since he and Tanev works. That leaves Hamhuis, Bieksa, Sbisa... Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Probably. Although he's trending toward being around a #2/3 D on any "good team" and an anchor for a defensive/shutdown pairing. And as much as I'd have preferred a lower AAV, after looking over the charts for several of the league's "good teams" it's quite common to see #4's making something in the $3-3.5-4 million range, with most of those guys on soon to expire deals and likely looking at $4-5 million (some even more) on their next extension. As such, I can live with Tanev at $4.45 for five years. I'm happy to have him locked in, for the most part, so long as he can learn to avoid taking so many hits (which is my biggest concern with Tanev, especially now that he has an injury history that includes head/brain trauma). This season, his "hits differential" is 169 hits taken and only 21 hits thrown. That's the 7th most hits taken by any defenseman in the NHL in 2014-15 and the #1 worst differential (taken minus thrown). Over the past five seasons, he's been hit 626 times, and only throw 80 hits. While Tanev's "hits thrown" numbers don't really bother me--that's just not part of his game--the "hits taken" have always been a concern. Just by "eye test" I've always hated the way he seems to get crunched so often, and usually in the dangerous areas of the ice for defensemen. Hopefully he learns to get those numbers down because we're "married" to him long-term now. But to be clear, that "marriage" is a good thing IMHO. I just hope he can stay healthy and effective over the duration. Bang on as usual Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Johnson - AAV 4.357 Million Shattenkirk - AAV 4.25 Million Giordano - AAV 4.02 Million Muzzin - AAV 4 million Martinez - AAV 4 Million Hedman - AAV 4 Million Josi - AAV 4 Million Fowler - AAV 4 Million Staal - AAV 3.975 Million I am curious to know which Player would you NOT trade Tanev straight up for on this list? A lot of those defenseman would get 6+ if they all needed to be re-signed or in an open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zverta Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Johnson - AAV 4.357 Million Shattenkirk - AAV 4.25 Million Giordano - AAV 4.02 Million Muzzin - AAV 4 million Martinez - AAV 4 Million Hedman - AAV 4 Million Josi - AAV 4 Million Fowler - AAV 4 Million Staal - AAV 3.975 Million I am curious to know which Player would you NOT trade Tanev straight up for on this list? Shattenkirk, Giordano, Staal, are grossly underpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I'm happy with this deal. A lot of people still don't seem to get the cap got raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Johnson - AAV 4.357 Million Shattenkirk - AAV 4.25 Million Giordano - AAV 4.02 Million Muzzin - AAV 4 million Martinez - AAV 4 Million Hedman - AAV 4 Million Josi - AAV 4 Million Fowler - AAV 4 Million Staal - AAV 3.975 Million I am curious to know which Player would you NOT trade Tanev straight up for on this list? Would be helpful to know when those deals were signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Well, Bennings 3 for 3. Handed out NTC (or limited NTC) to everyone he's signed. At least Gillis only gave to core players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lph Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Johnson - AAV 4.357 Million Shattenkirk - AAV 4.25 Million Giordano - AAV 4.02 Million Muzzin - AAV 4 million Martinez - AAV 4 Million Hedman - AAV 4 Million Josi - AAV 4 Million Fowler - AAV 4 Million Staal - AAV 3.975 Million I am curious to know which Player would you NOT trade Tanev straight up for on this list?most of those are old contracts so it's not fair to compare them to Tanev. Staal, for instance, signed an extension for 5.7mill/year with a full NTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Tanev is, of course, a good defenseman.I'm happy with the signing from that context. Its a bit worrying when we have to pay him like Brodie. Or more than Muzzin. Relative to what they bring to the table. Which is a superior ability to handle the puck. To make an offensive play. To win a board battle. And also to clear the net. Without much of a drop off, if any, in defensive capabilities. And it eats into the money with which have to build the rest of our team. He was an RFA. You are over-rating Brodie's defensive game - significantly. Brodie is 182lbs of not-clearing-the-net defenseman. Where do you come up with the Surfer? He,is smaller than Tanev, and is no more a physical presence. You're also forgetting the context in which he re-signed - before the season - having had a pair of 14 point and one 31 point season under his belt. Re-sign him after this season and good luck with the 4.65... Brodie's corsi on is -5.02 Tanev's is +5.44 Brodie's underlying numbers are taking a serious hit in the absence of Giordano, who was the hands down runaway Norris winner imo before going down with his season-ending injury. Brodie is an excellent shot blocker and puck mover, but to suggest there's no drop off in his overall defensive game is pretty daft imo. Really, you're comparing apples and oranges and half of your claims really come up lacking. If people want a fairly accurate current comparable, imo you're looking at a player like Hjalmarsson, who has very comparable underlying numbers, very comparable offensive output, very comparable in many respects, playing big, comparable minutes. He was a 26 year old RFA that signed a five year deal a year and a half ago at 20.5 million. Anyone here who doesn't realize what a good deal that is for the Hawks, or this for the Canucks, imo have very little idea of the importance or rarity of these types of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Well, here we are. We are a fundamentally sound defensive hockey team from the back end. Which isnt a bad place to be > see Toronto. But? We are not a punishing defensive team by any means. Which gets bigger in the play off's. Punish and wear down teams. That has won many a play off series. It wont be us. Offensively we are primarily a team that just rotates the puck around the outside through the D. Which is why our PP is meh. Not one that can attack, bake, shake and befuddle players who challenge our D when they have the puck. Or rush the puck if pressure gets intense, or the middle is clogged. Now I know Sbisa and Bieksa like to turn up ice and try and beat a guy. One of WD's best attributes is that he has curbed that to a large extent. Because they also give up the puck. Edler and Weber get the odd shot through or slide into an open lane behind a rush. Its all pretty ordinary. I guess the bottom line is that our D does not lose us games. It will have to do for this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baer. Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Johnson - AAV 4.357 Million Shattenkirk - AAV 4.25 Million Giordano - AAV 4.02 Million Muzzin - AAV 4 million Martinez - AAV 4 Million Hedman - AAV 4 Million Josi - AAV 4 Million Fowler - AAV 4 Million Staal - AAV 3.975 Million I am curious to know which Player would you NOT trade Tanev straight up for on this list? Staal, Martinez, Muzzin. Plus it's not fair when some of the guys you named are young and still on bridge contracts, or are on contracts from when they weren't elite. Guys like Fowler, Josi, and Hedman will make more money when their contracts are up. Breakout guys like Giordano and Staal are orginizations best friends. They play bad in a contract year, and good after that. My point is, a player's contract has more influences than just play. Is he taking a hometown discount? Is the team rich or poor? How close are they to the cap? Are the owners penny pinchers? So many factors go into a contract. Trust me when I say almost all those guys will get a raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Well, Bennings 3 for 3. Handed out NTC (or limited NTC) to everyone he's signed. At least Gillis only gave to core players. Tanev is a core player. Miller and Vrbata are stop gaps. Their cap hit is market value but the term fits in perfectly with our timetable. Those were great deals considering the spot we are in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbdoubleu Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 A lot of speculation about what this will mean for Bieksa, and Hamhuis, but honestly I'd still like to see Edler moved. Has had a great bounce-back year, but not a great year for a number 1 Dman. Has improved his value, and I think he could fetch the best return. We need a long-term improvement on Edler. Hammer and Bieksa are entering the final year of their contracts, so depending on what Beiksa wants to do to stay here, and where the team is at next season, maybe Hamhuis is a rental player, or we're able to trade his rights before free agency for a mid-round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Great deal for the Canucks. A guy playing top pair earning well under $5M/year? That's almost impossible in today's NHL. I'd sign Tanev to 4.5M/year all day long...worth every penny and then some. He's earned this contract EASILY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.