RUPERTKBD Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm not sure if "hits" encompasses the entire concept of physicality. He also gets hit more than he hits. I would say that physicality also involves the ability to win battles along the boards or in front of the net. Now we don't have any objective stat for that and we could easily disagree on what our eyes tell us. As I alluded to, the concept is ill-defined and vague. What is known is that in pretty much every component of the game that matters for defenceman, Sbisa is sub-par and no where near worth his extension. "What is known"? You certainly have a high opinion of yourself. What makes you think your opinion is superior to an actual NHL General Manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 "What is known"? You certainly have a high opinion of yourself. What makes you think your opinion is superior to an actual NHL General Manager? Appeal to authority. I'll remember that you think that is a valid form of argumentation next time you make any criticisms. Some GMs are progressive in their understand of hockey. Others are not. So far Benning's actions make me think he isn't as progressive as other GMs. There are a lot of times Benning has said things that if he had a good understanding of analytics he would not have said. Sbisa is a perfect example of him trusting his eyes (subjective) instead of more thoroughly studied and objective data that points in the opposite direction. I just hope he can adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I say we trade him for mcdavid Don't be absurd, Sbisa hits hard. Offensive game is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Appeal to authority. I'll remember that you think that is a valid form of argumentation next time you make any criticisms. Some GMs are progressive in their understand of hockey. Others are not. So far Benning's actions make me think he isn't as progressive as other GMs. There are a lot of times Benning has said things that if he had a good understanding of analytics he would not have said. Sbisa is a perfect example of him trusting his eyes (subjective) instead of more thoroughly studied and objective data that points in the opposite direction. I just hope he can adapt. Yeah, and the next time you say something is "known" I'll remember that it isn't actually "known", it's just the opinion of some blowhard on the internet who thinks the phrase "appeal to authority" gives his flawed opinion more weight than it actually has. For example: Hits are hits. Guys who hit a lot are defined a physical, whether they get hit themselves or not. Trying to pretend that they aren't is a weak attempt to justify a BS comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherG Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Sbisa is Ballard 2.0 now. He is untradeable, and no one would take him on that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yeah, and the next time you say something is "known" I'll remember that it isn't actually "known", it's just the opinion of some blowhard on the internet who thinks the phrase "appeal to authority" gives his flawed opinion more weight than it actually has. For example: Hits are hits. Guys who hit a lot are defined a physical, whether they get hit themselves or not. Trying to pretend that they aren't is a weak attempt to justify a BS comment. Physicality is not just about being hit. Like I said it is about winning battles along the boards and in front of the net. And the reason Sbisa has so many hits is because he is a weak possession player. Even if Sbisa possesses tons of physicality. It does not warrant his new extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Sbisa is Ballard 2.0 now. He is untradeable, and no one would take him on that contract. at least we get 20 mins out of sbisa. ballard was more money in the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 at least we get 20 mins out of sbisa. ballard was more money in the press box. Vigneault ruined him. He was a pace 30 point PMD guy four seasons prior. Don't know why vigneault hated him so much. He was what the team needed. Sbisa is still $&!#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Physicality is not just about being hit. Like I said it is about winning battles along the boards and in front of the net. And the reason Sbisa has so many hits is because he is a weak possession player. Even if Sbisa possesses tons of physicality. It does not warrant his new extension. Which is where we disagree. I think it brings a dimension to the Canucks' defense that is sorely lacking. I also think he possesses above average skating ability. You're correct that he is mistake prone, but he has the physical tools and I believe that he can continue to develop and become the player that Benning sees him as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Vigneault ruined him. He was a pace 30 point PMD guy four seasons prior. Don't know why vigneault hated him so much. He was what the team needed. Sbisa is still crap. Disagree. Injuries and Ballard himself ruined Ballard. He couldn't play the right side and wasn't going to supplant Edler or Hamhuis, so third pairing minutes was what he was going to get. Vigneault didn't "hate" him. It's a silly thing to say and frankly, I thought that ridiculous myth had been debunked long ago. Check out how many games he played in his final season with the Canucks and then check out how many points he had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Bagues Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Sbisa needs to work on these aspects of his game in the off-season. 1. His shot 2. his passing 3. His decision making? I dont know how he practices this 4. His speed (maybe hire a skating coach) 5. His overall strength 6. his agility Loads of work for him to do before he can equal to what he is being paid at the moment. He needs to work his butt off in the off-season. If he wants to be a top 4 on this team, otherwise Clendenning or Corrado will steal his spot soon. Sounds like he needs a stint in the AHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 He started last season very badly. His first three months were a disaster. His play picked up later in the season. He ended the season with 151 hits and 128 blocked shots. 2nd in both categories I believe. Bonino, Stanton, Horvat, and Dorsett had worse Corsi than him. Stanton and Sbisa are both 25. Whether certain fans like it or not we need players like him against bigger physical teams. We need NHL ready d-men when our older players invariably get injured. I am ok with the signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 He started last season very badly. His first three months were a disaster. His play picked up later in the season. He ended the season with 151 hits and 128 blocked shots. 2nd in both categories I believe. Bonino, Stanton, Horvat, and Dorsett had worse Corsi than him. Stanton and Sbisa are both 25. Whether certain fans like it or not we need players like him against bigger physical teams. We need NHL ready d-men when our older players invariably get injured. I am ok with the signing. There's a reason fans haven't taken to this player. He doesn't think the game at a high level but keeps trying to be that guy. Result turn overs in his own end. He can be a punishing D'man as you say, the problem is he doesn't make the most of that attribute ie he does not intimidate. Players who don't maximise their good qualities and minimise their flaws don't help the team. He's a bottom pair defender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I think sbisa is a borderline NHL dman. If he was on chicago he would be scratched or barely be playing. There would be no way quennville would let sbisa screw up as much as he does without consequences like willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 ^^ Here's the salaries of the Chicago Blackhawks. I'd list Tampa or New York but their d cores are exceptional. Take note of how much their lower-end defense men are making (Timmonen/Roszival). Sbisa's contract isn't terrible when you consider his age- he's not an over-the-hill pylon like those two guys. Cumiskey's contract isn't a fair comparison so the fact he's making 600K doesn't really matter. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/chicago-blackhawks/ And here's Anaheim's. Note Clayton Stoner's salary. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/anaheim-ducks/ I've listed these teams because (as you probably know) they're the last teams standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 He's young. He will turn it around. People need to chill. He and Bieksa just don't gel. Maybe thd coach needs to change up the pairings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 He's young. He will turn it around. People need to chill. He and Bieksa just don't gel. Maybe thd coach needs to change up the pairings No one and Bieksa gel at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 There's a reason fans haven't taken to this player. He doesn't think the game at a high level but keeps trying to be that guy. Result turn overs in his own end. He can be a punishing D'man as you say, the problem is he doesn't make the most of that attribute ie he does not intimidate. Players who don't maximise their good qualities and minimise their flaws don't help the team. He's a bottom pair defender I think that the way the team handled letting Gillis go, was a mistake. Too many fans and media now think that crapping all over a person will get them out of our system. Popularity is too highly rated. We've had many bottom players who were loved by fans. Your Cowans and Tambellinis etc. who were barely NHLers, but were highly acclaimed by fans. I'll trust Benning and Linden still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 He started last season very badly. His first three months were a disaster. His play picked up later in the season. He ended the season with 151 hits and 128 blocked shots. 2nd in both categories I believe. Bonino, Stanton, Horvat, and Dorsett had worse Corsi than him. Stanton and Sbisa are both 25. Whether certain fans like it or not we need players like him against bigger physical teams. We need NHL ready d-men when our older players invariably get injured. I am ok with the signing. He was directly responsible for 6 goals calgary scored that literally cost us the series. Twice he screened our goalie for easy Calgary goals, 2 pizzas for easy calgary goals, heard footsteps and froze behind the net turning the puck over for 2 more easy calgary goals. But go ahead, tell me about corsi.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 He was directly responsible for 6 goals calgary scored that literally cost us the series. Twice he screened our goalie for easy Calgary goals, 2 pizzas for easy calgary goals, heard footsteps and froze behind the net turning the puck over for 2 more easy calgary goals. But go ahead, tell me about corsi.. Wrong! he made mistakes, but blaming the entire series on him is asinine. The play thet cost us was a pass by Edler which went off our forwards skate. Our forward puck support was atrocious. Ok; he was 5th worst on our team. Benning and Linden seem to think he has room to grow as a player. I do also. I guess if it weren't for Sbisa we'd be playing Chicago for a chance at the Cup!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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