BanTSN Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 A second rounder in a crap draft is bad. A second rounder in an excellent draft is good. McKeown? Yeah, we probably could have used him. But okay, we have our 13th forward now instead. He might not even be retained, and Benning didn't even really want him, WD did, but for now we got him. Bearcheese, meanwhile, led our Comets to the finals. I think that was the point of that trade more than anything. WINNING ENVIRONMENT! ps. Bring back Matt Cooke. Cup Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 They're not necessarily the same people. CDC is not a hive-mind A 2nd pick that's only a roughly 30% shot of becoming an NHL'er is fair price for a young, 13th forward with upside who projects to be a decent 30-40 point, middle 6 "tweener" in his prime. It was an absolute bargain for Baer! It's a piss-poor return for Lack though IMO. I have to agree with you, I'd be pissed if that's what we got for Lack too. The last time the Canucks picked a player in rounds 2 to 4 and that player actually played for the Canucks- Mayson Raymond, picked in 2005. A 2nd or 3rd or 4th round pick doesn't sound like much of a cost to me, even for a player like Vey, who I'm not really sold on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 But okay, we have our 13th forward now instead. He might not even be retained, and Benning didn't even really want him, WD did, but for now we got him. Where are you getting info that he won't be retained? Who said he'd stay 13th forward forever? He fills that role next year, like last. While he develops in to that "middle 6, 30-40 point tweener" and gains value to regain assets at a later date and filling a current hole in our roster. Ooooh so scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Well, Schroeder wasn't retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Why not? Most 2nd rounders never even play in the NHL. Garrison does. And think about it. I like the Baertschi trade. I don't like the Vey trade. Why? One is not good enough. The other is. Please, stop with this "most don't play in the nhl" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Well, Schroeder wasn't retained. Neither was this guy: Too bad, as while he wasn't the sharpest guy, he sure played with a lot of heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchable Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Garrison does. And think about it. I like the Baertschi trade. I don't like the Vey trade. Why? One is not good enough. The other is. Please, stop with this "most don't play in the nhl" Garrison was also a $4.6m cap hit. Vey is not. Trading Garrison gave us the cap room to sign Vrbata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Garrison does. And think about it. I like the Baertschi trade. I don't like the Vey trade. Why? One is not good enough. The other is. Please, stop with this "most don't play in the nhl" And Garrison was redundant and sucking up cap space on an already mediocre and overpaid D core while being underutilized. Moving him allowed us to sign Vrbata (who we'll likely flip for picks this deadline). The Baer trade was far more than just "good". The Vey trade was merely "good". Well, most don't play in the NHL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Neither was this guy: Too bad, as while he wasn't the sharpest guy, he sure played with a lot of heart Huh? He went down the yellow brick road with the rest of the troops. Maybe you're thinking of this guy: He may be torched now and then, but he always blows smoke. ps. Relax. I'm referring to myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The day that the Canucks stop regarding 2nd round picks as worthless and start selecting great players there instead would be a HOT DAMN GOOD DAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 30 k on tickets and you didnt notice sbisa led all D with hits. ....i seeJust because a defenseman leads a team in hits doesn't mean he's valuable. Especially when he coughs the puck as much as Sbisa. Also consider the fact that Sbisa was rarely able to carry the puck out of his own end without getting his pocket picked. But I guess when you gauge a defenseman's worth on how many hits he has in a season..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Just because a defenseman leads a team in hits doesn't mean he's valuable. Especially when he coughs the puck as much as Sbisa. Also consider the fact that Sbisa was rarely able to carry the puck out of his own end without getting his pocket picked. But I guess when you gauge a defenseman's worth on how many hits he has in a season..... The Sbisa signing, coupled with Vey being favored by Willie just continues this organizations willingness to keep players who are just overall "nice great guys". I guess if you watch film and hang out with the other players, this organization will open up the checkbook and give you a NTC. Everyone knows they will have a job if they continue to be nice, there is no internal competition yet, and I sure hope Willie changes this style of being loyal to certain guys. They seem to only try and light a fire under Kassian, how about the rest of the guys? That 2nd line was horrid this year, and killed our 2nd unit PP as well, yet it remained unchanged throughout the entire season! Even when Horvat's line was clearly the most dangerous on many nights, that 2nd line continued to get the minutes and juicy PP time. Remember the Calgary series when Daniel gave the calgary player his stick back and even said sorry? IN THE PLAYOFFS?? Last I checked, nice guys dont win championships. Surround the Sedins with some nastiness. The hawks had a lot of turmoil (locker room fights), as do the LA Kings (blocking sutter out of the room) and they seem to be the dominant teams in the NHL. They are also not afraid to make major changes to their core, and get players based on skill and fit. They also know how to play nasty and dont take any guff, as symbolized by their team leaders. This core has not shown that extra competitive edge. If you watched the last game of the finals Healey had a clip of how the players were grabbing their opponents sticks right out of their hand, just shows the level of compete and mind games of intimidation are important in the playoffs. No such things were displayed in the flames series. Next thing you know we will name our goalie captain and ship off our most intense player for a 1st rounder and a bag of pucks...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Fever Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I can't even believe where talking about Sbisa as an NHL caliber player? Let alone that Benning thinks he's one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Garrison does. And think about it. I like the Baertschi trade. I don't like the Vey trade. Why? One is not good enough. The other is. Please, stop with this "most don't play in the nhl" Why should we stop? It's a fact. Most 2nd rounders never make the NHL. The reality is that JB turned 2 2nd rounders, each with a less than 10% chance at 100 games into 2 players guaranteed to have NHL careers and who have top 6 potential. That's smart asset management. Your problem is that you think like every $&!# gambler does, looking for that one big score. So you swing for the fences over and over, striking out over and over until you're out of luck and money. Managing talent on an NHL team isn't like that. You make smart bets, accumulate chips, then cash them in for ones in ever bigger denominations. That's what JB is doing. We are going to have more good forwards than we know what to do with soon, all still very young. We are inevitably going to trade some of them away but their returns will be significant and make the team better. That is how you package players into blockbusters. Not but trying to trade away diminishing assets for a snowball's chance in hell that you'll pick the next great franchise player to fall through the cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Why should we stop? It's a fact. Most 2nd rounders never make the NHL. The reality is that JB turned 2 2nd rounders, each with a less than 10% chance at 100 games into 2 players guaranteed to have NHL careers and who have top 6 potential. That's smart asset management. Your problem is that you think like every crap gambler does, looking for that one big score. So you swing for the fences over and over, striking out over and over until you're out of luck and money. Managing talent on an NHL team isn't like that. You make smart bets, accumulate chips, then cash them in for ones in ever bigger denominations. That's what JB is doing. We are going to have more good forwards than we know what to do with soon, all still very young. We are inevitably going to trade some of them away but their returns will be significant and make the team better. That is how you package players into blockbusters. Not but trying to trade away diminishing assets for a snowball's chance in hell that you'll pick the next great franchise player to fall through the cracks. Smart asset management is trading Matthias at the deadline for a 2nd rounder. Now he walks for nothing and that trade now looks horrible for us. Not clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cow Disease Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Smart asset management is trading Matthias at the deadline for a 2nd rounder. Now he walks for nothing and that trade now looks horrible for us. Not clever. I feel like that's really easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. At the trade deadline Matthias was on a roll and looked like he could have performed for us in a possible playoff run. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way. But who knows what was offered for him at the time? I'm not one to close my eyes, cover my ears, and yell "trust Benning!" but I thought Matthias looked worth keeping and making a good offer for. Now? Not as much. Overall I think JB has done quite well with cap and asset management. The Vrbata signing, Clendening and Baertschi trades were very impressive for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I feel like that's really easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. At the trade deadline Matthias was on a roll and looked like he could have performed for us in a possible playoff run. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way. But who knows what was offered for him at the time? I'm not one to close my eyes, cover my ears, and yell "trust Benning!" but I thought Matthias looked worth keeping and making a good offer for. Now? Not as much. Overall I think JB has done quite well with cap and asset management. The Vrbata signing, Clendening and Baertschi trades were very impressive for me. We HAD to keep Mattias. Why? because Benning and Linden basically promised this core one last shot in the playoffs, and if they traded Mattias that would have sent a distrust amongst the players with management. I did not want him to move either, as I was quite excited to see the team playing well at the time. We have other assets (goalies) that would net us this anyways, and I think Benning knew this. Maybe some team would have given us a 2nd, we dont know, but at least we made the playoffs and put an end to the debate of whether this particular group of players can still have a deep run. It also establishes Linden's and Benning's credibility to the players. I think that alone is worth a 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The Sbisa signing, coupled with Vey being favored by Willie just continues this organizations willingness to keep players who are just overall "nice great guys". I guess if you watch film and hang out with the other players, this organization will open up the checkbook and give you a NTC. Everyone knows they will have a job if they continue to be nice, there is no internal competition yet, and I sure hope Willie changes this style of being loyal to certain guys. They seem to only try and light a fire under Kassian, how about the rest of the guys? That 2nd line was horrid this year, and killed our 2nd unit PP as well, yet it remained unchanged throughout the entire season! Even when Horvat's line was clearly the most dangerous on many nights, that 2nd line continued to get the minutes and juicy PP time. Remember the Calgary series when Daniel gave the calgary player his stick back and even said sorry? IN THE PLAYOFFS?? Last I checked, nice guys dont win championships. Surround the Sedins with some nastiness. The hawks had a lot of turmoil (locker room fights), as do the LA Kings (blocking sutter out of the room) and they seem to be the dominant teams in the NHL. They are also not afraid to make major changes to their core, and get players based on skill and fit. They also know how to play nasty and dont take any guff, as symbolized by their team leaders. This core has not shown that extra competitive edge. If you watched the last game of the finals Healey had a clip of how the players were grabbing their opponents sticks right out of their hand, just shows the level of compete and mind games of intimidation are important in the playoffs. No such things were displayed in the flames series. Next thing you know we will name our goalie captain and ship off our most intense player for a 1st rounder and a bag of pucks......I agree completely. I'd rather this team go after pkayers with a fiery winning attitude than a bunch of "real good" stand up character guys who will amount to nothing. Character and friendliness don't win championships. Albeit Daniel's gesture was an honest one from a truly decent human being. Vey and Sbisa are not going to be difference makers for this team now or 3 years down the road. Hopefully Willie's Medicine Hat clique is quashed going forward so that only those players who truly put forth a consistently solid effort get playing time and the team's resident passengers are given a change of address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Why should we stop? It's a fact. Most 2nd rounders never make the NHL. The reality is that JB turned 2 2nd rounders, each with a less than 10% chance at 100 games into 2 players guaranteed to have NHL careers and who have top 6 potential. That's smart asset management. Your problem is that you think like every crap gambler does, looking for that one big score. So you swing for the fences over and over, striking out over and over until you're out of luck and money. Managing talent on an NHL team isn't like that. You make smart bets, accumulate chips, then cash them in for ones in ever bigger denominations. That's what JB is doing. We are going to have more good forwards than we know what to do with soon, all still very young. We are inevitably going to trade some of them away but their returns will be significant and make the team better. That is how you package players into blockbusters. Not but trying to trade away diminishing assets for a snowball's chance in hell that you'll pick the next great franchise player to fall through the cracks. Shea Weber and Duncan Keith say 2nd rounders do make the NHL. And Zdeno Chara was picked in the third round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Shea Weber and Duncan Keith say 2nd rounders do make the NHL. And Zdeno Chara was picked in the tjird round. And Martin St. Louis says undrafted players make it too. Maybe we just shouldn't bother drafting anybody. Statistically speaking, for every Weber and Keith there's 10 or so guys you've never heard of drafted in the second round. I'd bet good money that Baerschi turns into a better player than whoever Calgary takes with the 53rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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