wshdrvvn Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 see? completely worthless to read these boards right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedlee Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Just once I'd like to see a Canuck prospect rip it up at the WJC. 10 goals by the USA today and zip from Brock. Same as Virtanen. No goals in 3 games. Ugh. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 18 minutes ago, Zedlee said: Just once I'd like to see a Canuck prospect rip it up at the WJC. 10 goals by the USA today and zip from Brock. Same as Virtanen. No goals in 3 games. Ugh. . Hodgson had 16 points in 6 games in 2009. And Schroeder holds the American record for most career WJC points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Darius Posted December 30, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2015 19 minutes ago, Zedlee said: Just once I'd like to see a Canuck prospect rip it up at the WJC. 10 goals by the USA today and zip from Brock. Same as Virtanen. No goals in 3 games. Ugh. . Top 5 scorers 2009 WJC 1. Cody Hodgson 16pts 2. John Tavares 15pts 3. Jordan Eberle 13pts 4. NIkita Filitov 11 pts 5. Thomas Tatar 11pts In 2008 Jordan Schroeder was tied for 4th in tournament points. How did those two guys work out? Conversely way back in 1988 Trevor Linden racked up ONE point in 7 games. ONE point. If these boards existed back then I suspect people would be shredding him too. Its all about player development and circumstances. Trev, with his one point, turned out just fine. Cody, with his 16 points is qualified to carry Shae Weber's luggage during road trips. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 35 minutes ago, Zedlee said: Just once I'd like to see a Canuck prospect rip it up at the WJC. 10 goals by the USA today and zip from Brock. Same as Virtanen. No goals in 3 games. Ugh. . Would it really make a difference if he had scored one of the 10? Really? He's an 18-year-old playing at the WJC...being there can only help his development no matter how much he doesn't score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: But...people are doing that about 3 WJC games...less than 40 NHL games. Why the double standard? I haven't called Virtanen a bust or even any prospect here in CDC a bust, find a quote of me that absolutely states "Virt is a bust" I think you're taking criticism as hatred and does not read the reasons behind it just because it is negative If I project Virtanen, 19yr n 1/2 being a dynamic 30 goal scoring powerforward, basing on the 3 WJC games and less than 40 NHL games in 10 years, how would you take it? Hate me, call me stupid. No, I think you wouldn't care. Edited December 30, 2015 by Cowardrobertford I also can't recall stating here on CDC any projection of Virt's career, so I don't think I have 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 18 minutes ago, MattJVD said: Hodgson had 16 points in 6 games in 2009. And Schroeder holds the American record for most career WJC points. Yeah, two of this franchise's 1st round busts ironically. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 14 minutes ago, oldnews said: Yeah, two of this franchise's 1st round busts ironically. I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion! Weakness with drafting to suit the western conference is probably a better explanation, especially with Schroeder. Hodgson might have turned out differently if he wasn't rushed to top line minutes in desperation with Buffalo, his development was coming along spectacularly playing behind Kesler and Henrik. Especially, since he would have jumped into 2nd line duties when Kesler stormed out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 32 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: I haven't called Virtanen a bust or even any prospect here in CDC a bust, find a quote of me that absolutely states "Virt is a bust" I think you're taking criticism as hatred and does not read the reasons behind it just because it is negative If I project Virtanen, 19yr n 1/2 being a dynamic 30 goal scoring powerforward, basing on the 3 WJC games and less than 40 NHL games in 10 years, how would you take it? Hate me, call me stupid. No, I think you wouldn't care. I'd still call you foolish for proclaiming the future of a prospect in stone after a few games at the WJC. Statements like those are what get people laughed at and rightfully so. There are literally dozens of examples of players who ripped up the WJC and did nothing anywhere else, and even more who did nothing or didn't even go to the WJC and went on to have solid careers in the NHL or Euro leagues. People are heaping a proverbial butt load of criticism on Virtanen based on the WJC and 3rd/4th line minutes in the NHL (less than 40 games) and proclaiming he's a bust, should have taken player x, y, z. writing off his whole career because of this. If canada somehow medals and Virtanen nets no points the entire tournament, expect to see JV's name in every 3rd trade proposal through the off season. My beef is people who continually write players entire careers off because of the WJC showings...it's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, SvenBae said: Weakness with drafting to suit the western conference is probably a better explanation, especially with Schroeder. Hodgson might have turned out differently if he wasn't rushed to top line minutes in desperation with Buffalo, his development was coming along spectacularly playing behind Kesler and Henrik. Especially, since he would have jumped into 2nd line duties when Kesler stormed out. Plus, he hurt his back training. I remember AV saying Cody had no pop in his legs after that. He was a slower skater, and pretty soft already, so that injury might have set him back too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Plus, he hurt his back training. I remember AV saying Cody had no pop in his legs after that. He was a slower skater, and pretty soft already, so that injury might have set him back too. Ugh, Canucks' prospects have terrible luck. Maybe it's our fault for putting too much pressure on our young guys to perform. Taking a look at Horvat (and McCann) and the criticism he has got this season certainly has begun to make me feel that way. Perhaps the best thing moving forward with this franchise might be a period of mediocrity when the team isn't being so highly scrutinized and the prospects can develop at their pace, although, I bet ownership has a role to play in this as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion! Yeah, I'm anything but keen to go too offtrack discussing something beaten to death on these boards, but I think the player bears as much responsibility as anyone. WJC performances can't be put in any bank and withdrawn when attempting to step up to the next level. As for development, I think AV was doing a pretty good job of bringing a young along, putting him in situations to succeed, giving him solid two way linemates that could help shelter a young center. Sometimes young people however can tend to overestimate their own relative talent and development - and when you (or your agent) are creating an ice time controversy a few months into your career, playing behind the likes of Hank and Kesler (and expecting a larger share of their minutes), there's probably a lack of realistic perspective somewhere on your side of the chain that can't simply be passed off on management or their developmental responsibility alone. 12 minutes ago, SvenBae said: Hodgson might have turned out differently if he wasn't rushed to top line minutes in desperation with Buffalo, his development was coming along spectacularly playing behind Kesler and Henrik. Especially, since he would have jumped into 2nd line duties when Kesler stormed out. A good case of "be careful what you wish for". But that's the last I have to say on this particular matter here. Where Boeser is concerned, I think people are getting a little nuts with small samples and short term tunnel vision. Edited December 30, 2015 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 21 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion! Hodgson turned out to be too slow and lacking in defence and Schroeder was just too small for todays NHL. Others included... Magnus Paajarvi, Filatov, Olesz, Tukonen. Daniel Larsson and Justin Pogge, Filatov, Jack Campbell, Freddie Hamilton, Brett Connolly, Brandon McMillan, Dave Chyzowski, Martin Gendron, Marty Murray, Stephane Fiset, Jimmy Waite, Raimo Helminen, Angelo Esposito, Carlo Colaiacovo,Marty Murray, Marc Denis, Martin Gendron, Jason Botterill,Jerry DAmigo, Brandon Reid, Jamie Lundmark, Maxime Ouellet, Jared Aulin, Pascal Leclaire, Nigel Dawes, Anthony Stewart. Lifted from HF Boards. Every year the 'best' jrs are selected to play for their country. By looking at this list, it shows that one shouldn't put too much stock in it for predicting NHL careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Also off topic, but Paajarvi is earning good reviews in St Louis after his call up. He might not be lighting it up, but the coach has been calling him one of their best players of late. Quote Lou Korac @lkorac10 Dec 22 Hitch had very high praise for Paajarvi. "He looks like a heck of a player in the National Hockey League right now." #stlblues Hitch: "The guy that's gone unnoticed here is probably the guy that's playing the best hockey for us right now is Paajarvi." #stlblues 23 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion! That is a result in part of picking players with key areas of weakness in their games but significant skillsets otherwise. With Hodgson, it was a big blow to have the early injuries he did, plus the meddling of his dad and agent, while Schroeder could never adjust to the larger size and upgrade in speed of the NHL. For each, it was one step too many to translate the skills they did have to the level they needed to be successful NHL'ers more than anything significant in their development the Canucks had a hand in. Boeser certainly has less (or less significant perhaps) areas of weakness in his game. Maybe his skillset doesn't translate as well, but he could still morph his game into that of a middle/bottom 6 player and succeed. At the position he was picked, that's a very reasonable thing, versus a Hodgson, Horvat or Virtanen picked much higher who would have a little more expectations to a point. Edited December 30, 2015 by elvis15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, SvenBae said: Ugh, Canucks' prospects have terrible luck. Maybe it's our fault for putting too much pressure on our young guys to perform. Taking a look at Horvat (and McCann) and the criticism he has got this season certainly has begun to make me feel that way. Perhaps the best thing moving forward with this franchise might be a period of mediocrity when the team isn't being so highly scrutinized and the prospects can develop at their pace, although, I bet ownership has a role to play in this as well. Our city has a bad track record for supporting (or not supporting) a losing team. It's not that long ago, when Brian Burke said our team was one phone call from moving. Hopefully, this new owner - being a big fan - is willing to absorb the inevitable drop in revenue and team valuation with rebuilding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckpuckluck1 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 20 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion! The weakness was the Canucks lack of quality farm system. The coaching and control of the prospects was not in sync with what was happening at the NHL level. Just look at the disaster that was the Chicago Wolves. Now that Travis Greene and his staff at Utica are working with the Canucks youth you can already see the success that this team is having on and off the ice in Utica. This is a far better succession plan for the young players. The Canucks organisation realised there was an issue and addressed the problem. They hired a very good AHL coach who is working hand in hand with the Canucks to build a winning formula, this process seems to be very successful, look at how well the team is dealing with a horrible injury toll this year and the players coming up from Utica are not looking completely lost out on the ice. The team may not be winning as much as we would all like, but you can't be disappointed with the effort from the prospects. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Our city has a bad track record for supporting (or not supporting) a losing team. It's not that long ago, when Brian Burke said our team was one phone call from moving. Hopefully, this new owner - being a big fan - is willing to absorb the inevitable drop in revenue and team valuation with rebuilding? A successful team with a young core, would be huge from a business perspective, especially in the Vancouver market. If their goal is to have that team built for when the Sedins are ready to leave, then we are probably well on the way there. However, the development of the team's prospects as of late has been somewhat questionable considering this. Maybe the result of high hopes and a last ditch effort to go for gold one last time with the Sedins, with the rest of the core effectively looking like they are ready to be moved out as well, maybe this will be the last attempt for awhile? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, SvenBae said: A successful team with a young core, would be huge from a business perspective, especially in the Vancouver market. If their goal is to have that team built for when the Sedins are ready to leave, then we are probably well on the way there. However, the development of the team's prospects as of late has been somewhat questionable considering this. Maybe the result of high hopes and a last ditch effort to go for gold one last time with the Sedins, with the rest of the core effectively looking like they are ready to be moved out as well, maybe this will be the last attempt for awhile? I agree with you, that the Canuck's management appears to believe they have hope, but don't you think it's misplaced? I see us as needing some top picks to get guys with elite (Sedin like) skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: I agree with you, that the Canuck's management appears to believe they have hope, but don't you think it's misplaced? I see us as needing some top picks to get guys with elite (Sedin like) skill. Well, I believe they HAD hope, but quickly diminishing I'd imagine. Maybe even the hope they had in prospects might have been a bit high, but who knows, you can only hope they have an idea of where they are heading now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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