The Province - Willie comes strong defending the deployment of his young players

[Alflives]

Baertschi was not a wasted 2nd rounder. At the time of the Baertschi trade the Canucks did not have any knowledge remotely close to what they know now as far as the rookie pipeline goes.

Jensen's stocks were going down, McCann and Hutton were unknowns, Virtanen was at least a year away and Horvat was the only semi-assured piece of a future core.

Now that McCann and Virtanen have shown they can play, the entire paradigm of on-ice deployment has been changed and Baertschi now has pressure to perform both from the perspective of the vets, whose ice time is at risk, and from the newly formed contingent of rookies who, despite being a pleasant surprise, also need the ice time.

Furthermore, the Tortorella hiring that has rendered a 2nd pick Vancouver's way makes the Baertschi price a moot point as the new 2nd from Columbus could be seen as a late late 1st by virtue of Columbus' future and final seasonal position in the standings, as well as the draft itself rumored to be very deep.

Paradigm.  Seriously, in a hockey chat room?  I dint see any shift here.  The guy was a wast of a second, just like Vey.  We could have had two up and coming young D for those two picks.

[Me_]

plus he's starting to sport a comb over.  He's a twitching comb over.  He's embarrassing.  I thought Budreau was the funniest looking coach in the league, but with him soon to be fired (hahaha) I think our guy moves into top spot.  

Hey in 45 years you'll be 58 too. Comes fast. 

[Alflives]

Hey in 45 years you'll be 58 too. Comes fast. 

my apologies if I insulted your hair style.  The comb over looks good on you.  Really, it does. 

[Me_]

Paradigm.  Seriously, in a hockey chat room?  I dint see any shift here.  The guy was a wast of a second, just like Vey.  We could have had two up and coming young D for those two picks.

Yes. Paradigm.

The Canucks have Hutton; he alone is a paradigm shift in deployment. Out of almost nowhere, the Canucks have a T1D in the making.

Regarding the second for Vey and the second for Baertschi, if you don't take a chance, you are sure nothing will happen; just like the Canucks not making the moves they should have made and in so doing, became stale.

[Alflives]

Yes. Paradigm.

The Canucks have Hutton.

Regarding the second for Vey and the second for Baertschi, if you don't take a chance, you are sure nothing will happen; just like the Canucks not making the moves they should have made and in so doing, became stale.

why use that word in association with hockey though?  It just don't fit.  No argument can support our loss of two seconds.  We are supposed to be rebuilding, restocking, retooling, whatever.  Using picks on these soft players, who have had their chance already, was none too bright.  We needed those picks to use on guys who still had a chance to prove they could play.  Older guys were a waste.

[DeNiro]

If our young guys don't come through this season we most certainly won't make the playoffs.

This team just doesn't have the depth, and there's no help on it's way.

It's in everyone's best interest to make sure these guys are given every chance to develop and succeed. 

[Me_]

why use that word in association with hockey though?  It just don't fit.  No argument can support our loss of two seconds.  We are supposed to be rebuilding, restocking, retooling, whatever.  Using picks on these soft players, who have had their chance already, was none too bright.  We needed those picks to use on guys who still had a chance to prove they could play.  Older guys were a waste.

No argument is worth arguing with you right now. You're convinced.

I will however, leave you with a quote on this fine evening.

"The problem with the world is that intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence" - Charles Bukowski

[Me_]

If our young guys don't come through this season we most certainly won't make the playoffs.

This team just doesn't have the depth, and there's no help on it's way.

It's in everyone's best interest to make sure these guys are given every chance to develop and succeed. 

+1 to DeNiro for thinking.

[Alflives]

No argument is worth arguing with you right now bud. You're convinced.

I will however, leave you with a quote on this fine evening.

"The problem with the world is that intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence" - Charles Bukowski

here's a quote from Archie Bunker: ""

[Crabcakes]

Seriously?  This is a transition year.  Does anybody know what that means?  It means they're adding young players and phasing out some of the older players (or players who don't fit the profile of the team they want).  If you think these games are difficult to watch, just wait till next year when even more young players will be pushing hard for spots.

Willie did a helluva job with Horvat last year.  He brought him along slowly.  He's doing exactly the same thing with Virtanen and McCann this year.  And Baertschi?  Draw a parallel to how he gifted Vey responsibility too soon.  He's not making that mistake again.  He's being treated like the other young guys and rightly so.  What about Horvat?  He's a 2nd year player and a work in progress!  Horvat has not arrived yet ladies.  Don't give him the 2nd line until he's ready.  So cut Willie some slack.  You'll have to wait until the all star break to see the Canucks start to look decent.

Next year we have Grenier, Vey, Kenins, Jensen, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Stewart, Pedan and who knows who else coming along.  So straighten up your panties girls and get ready for a wild ride because I don't think CDC has the stomach for it.

 

[JeremyCuddles]

Likely going to get some hate here but what I liked about Torts was he played players that were playing the best. There were some nights where Santo lead forwards in ice time, and rightfully so he was usually the best player on any given night. I think Willie hasn't rewarded players for their play like he use to. No one wants to force feed minutes to rookies. But if they are playing great give them some ice time in the third.

[Hairy Kneel]

Then why wasn't Horvat on our 2nd unit PP in the playoffs when he was our stud in beastmode and in most games our hardest skater?

Horvat was good in spite of WD I bet Linden forced him to keep Horvat up.

WD is the one who look afraid and lacking aggression not the kid line.

 

[NuckleheadFan]

The last I recall, NHL is NOT a development league (I'm pretty sure Babcock stated this when he went to TO). The AHL is to develop young talent into the pro game and prepare them.

As for WD, he's doing a good job of giving protected minutes to the young guys to help develop them, but also try to give the team a chance at winning. Can he do better? Of course like anyone can do better at their jobs, but he's definitely not doing a poor job. WD is a smart, knowledgeable coach, and I'm pretty sure he's going to be given the proper opportunity to produce by JB and TL.

I'd like to see the vets produce more and be more visible.

[Hairy Kneel]

Protected minutes means benching those two are better off with teams that will play them..bring up Gaunce and Shink instead..or Grenier.Hard checking types with the one sniper..Baers is embedded and can't go anywhere.

The league has gotten too fast to not add young legs.

[oldnews]

Baertschi was not a wasted 2nd rounder. At the time of the Baertschi trade the Canucks did not have any knowledge remotely close to what they know now as far as the rookie pipeline goes.

Jensen's stocks were going down, McCann and Hutton were unknowns, Virtanen was at least a year away and Horvat was the only semi-assured piece of a future core.

Now that McCann and Virtanen have shown they can play, the entire paradigm of on-ice deployment has been changed and Baertschi now has pressure to perform both from the perspective of the vets, whose ice time is at risk, and from the newly formed contingent of rookies who, despite being a pleasant surprise, also need the ice time.

Furthermore, the Columbus hire of Tortorella has rendered a much higher 2nd pick Vancouver's way and makes the Baertschi 2nd from Calgary a moot point as Columbus' 2nd could be seen as a late late 1st by virtue of Columbus' final seasonal position in the standings, as well as the draft itself rumored to be very deep. Of course, Columbus has three years to decide which year Vancouver picks its newly acquired 2nd. That 2nd should still be higher than Calgary's.

Agreed.   Baertshi's upside was/is worth the risk of a 2nd round pick.  He undoubtedly has a better chance than the average 2nd round pick - people can cherry-pick exceptions, 2nds that turn or turned out, but they're not the norm.  The complaining about spending that pick on him is overdone, way overdone.

What is a waste of a 2nd round pick?  John Tortorella!!  Thanks Columbus. 

[HK Phooey]

Baertschi was not a wasted 2nd rounder. At the time of the Baertschi trade the Canucks did not have any knowledge remotely close to what they know now as far as the rookie pipeline goes.

Jensen's stocks were going down, McCann and Hutton were unknowns, Virtanen was at least a year away and Horvat was the only semi-assured piece of a future core.

Now that McCann and Virtanen have shown they can play, the entire paradigm of on-ice deployment has been changed and Baertschi now has pressure to perform both from the perspective of the vets, whose ice time is at risk, and from the newly formed contingent of rookies who, despite being a pleasant surprise, also need the ice time.

Furthermore, the Columbus hire of Tortorella has rendered a much higher 2nd pick Vancouver's way and makes the Baertschi 2nd from Calgary a moot point as Columbus' 2nd could be seen as a late late 1st by virtue of Columbus' final seasonal position in the standings, as well as the draft itself rumored to be very deep. Of course, Columbus has three years to decide which year Vancouver picks its newly acquired 2nd. That 2nd should still be higher than Calgary's.

So, the Canucks got Baertschi and a little something-something (i.e., jump up in the second round) for Tortorella.  I'd make that deal any day of the week.

[Robongo]

If our young guys don't come through this season we most certainly won't make the playoffs.

This team just doesn't have the depth, and there's no help on it's way.

It's in everyone's best interest to make sure these guys are given every chance to develop and succeed. 

It's quite evident that Willie is aware of this . The Sedins comments before the year that this was basically a "write off" year or a "transition year " as they worded it was proof to that . I like Willie's thought process in this instance in trying to get the young guns to play more aggressive, however he's guilty of speaking out of both sides of his mouth like management has been numerous times . He's demonstrated that he's afraid to put the young players in the positions that he speaks about. Do they need to be aggressive out there? No doubt, they often look like they're taking no chances out there and playing it safe . But Jared is leading the Canucks with goals and has done great in the offensive role and the second he shows some inexperience in the defensive zone he's benched and  has even been put into the press box because of it. Again, I understand his reasoning but he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth 

In all honesty judging by how they've said they've literally pencilled in Virtanen since March , they're almost showing that they're are stubborn and trying to prove, since others taken after him are playing in th NHL, that they made the right pick . They keep parroting that they are following the Detroit model yet the wings would never be taking this route with one of their prospects . Jake did not dominate his league the last year, for whatever the reason, is up to debate . However, He's at a crossroads in his career . Do we want him as a third line banger or do we want him as a top line all around threat? He has a lot left to learn in the W Imo and that involves dominating offensively . We rushed Kass when it was clear he belonged in the AHL, don't make the same mistake with Jake ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DIBdaQUIB]

Come on!

They may have been on the ice, granted, but in what stretch of the imagination does that equate to "got them into the lead" Is that the kind of logic used when Vey is playing, or Higgins? Damn right it isn't.

Playing 4 lines, including the kid line, got them into the lead.  Once Willie shortened his bench, they were playing not to lose and as is common, they did just that.  It was the vets who made the mistakes leading to the last two Washington goals not the kids. Why not stick with the same strategy in the third that worked in the first and second? 

[DIBdaQUIB]

It's quite evident that Willie is aware of this . The Sedins comments before the year that this was basically a "write off" year or a "transition year " as they worded it was proof to that . I like Willie's thought process in this instance in trying to get the young guns to play more aggressive, however he's guilty of speaking out of both sides of his mouth like management has been numerous times . He's demonstrated that he's afraid to put the young players in the positions that he speaks about. Do they need to be aggressive out there? No doubt, they often look like they're taking no chances out there and playing it safe . But Jared is leading the Canucks with goals and has done great in the offensive role and the second he shows some inexperience in the defensive zone he's benched and  has even been put into the press box because of it. Again, I understand his reasoning but he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth 

 

Agreed.  It's awfully hard for the kids to play aggressive knowing how much WD has harped on defense first.  They are obviously scared to make a defensive mistake which pretty much kills any offensive energy, at least for rookies new to the league and still uncertain if they will be staying with the big club or sent to junior.. 

[alfstonker]

Agreed.  It's awfully hard for the kids to play aggressive knowing how much WD has harped on defense first.  They are obviously scared to make a defensive mistake which pretty much kills any offensive energy, at least for rookies new to the league and still uncertain if they will be staying with the big club or sent to junior.. 

Well duh, that's the game called hockey. You either learn it the right way or you're a f--k up (like Zack) for the rest of your career. Go listen to what McCann said in the interview, he understands the process more than you do it seems.

You don't turn coaching on it's head to suit the rookies you get the rookies to learn how to operate in the NHL. Everyone knows you have to be Gretzky if you are going to be allowed to ignore the defensive side of the game and I doubt he did that either, after all there are only 5 guys out on the ice and no team can carry a defensive liability.

If the responsibility is making them go into their shell, as you make out, they are saying, as plain as day "I'm not ready for this league" For goodness sake let's stop making excuses for them, it doesn't help in the long run. We had enough of that cr-p with Kassian.