poetica Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) 9 hours ago, Captain Woodget said: If that package was put together by an EPL soccer team (say Chelsea, where I am), it would be around $1,000. If the NHL relocated the Panthers to London, UK then they could sell a full season ticket package - say 20 games, two tickets per game - plus two proper customized jerseys for the Panthers (any players you want), for at least $2,500. If they sold 10,000 packages (easily I reckon), they'd make $25m - just from selling 20,000 tickets for 20 games. Add in the additional capacity - another 5,000 per game for one-off purchases - plus retail sales, food sales, bar sales etc - they could make a London-based team a financial success based on only a 20-game home season. I can't understand why Bettman doesn't look to move these financially disastrous teams elsewhere. Even if those numbers were accurate, I would think they would likely spend all of their profits traveling to the US and Canada for games. And, all of the other teams would suffer from increased travel costs as well, especially those in the same division. As a result, the entire league would see drop in profits. It's simply not financially feasible to have Eurpoean teams in the NHL. Edited December 4, 2015 by poetica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fakename70 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Still occasionally miffed at Blake Price and certain others at 1040 when I think back to last season and their claiming Luongo isn't worthy of his number being retired. But, who's atop the franchise leader board at that position in W's, GAA (Sorry, but Schneider played in only 98 games), SV % and SO's, though, hmm? No disrespect to McLean --- ROH-worthy for sure --- but, the 1040 argument that Luongo isn't worthy of having his number in the rafters because he wasn't here as long as Kirk, didn't play as many games, and never won an individual award is just stupid. Isn't it MORE impressive what Lu accomplished considering the amount of time he was here by comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 On December 4, 2015 at 3:04:42 PM, poetica said: Even if those numbers were accurate, I would think they would likely spend all of their profits traveling to the US and Canada for games. And, all of the other teams would suffer from increased travel costs as well, especially those in the same division. As a result, the entire league would see drop in profits. It's simply not financially feasible to have Eurpoean teams in the NHL. Not to mention hard core jet lag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 An example of age not slowing you down, but we know that all too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Wow amazing.. He should be able to finish #3 until King Henrik catches him. For Lu to spend so many years on a terrible Panthers team and to maintain one of the lowest GAA on that list is quite amazing. He is a shoe in for the Hall of Fame IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 He must be among the leaders in all time losses now isn't he? That should help get him to the HOF!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 2 hours ago, Westcoasting said: He must be among the leaders in all time losses now isn't he? That should help get him to the HOF!! Marty Brodeur is...and your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 8 hours ago, JV77 said: Marty Brodeur is...and your point? Do you think he is going to hall of fame on total wins alone? I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 4 hours ago, Westcoasting said: Do you think he is going to hall of fame on total wins alone? I don't see it. You make it seem as if having such a long and strong career is nothing. If it's so easy to achieve, why have so few managed it? According to Quant Hockey, on the all time career stats list Luongo is currently 8th for games played, 8th for wins, 13th for shutouts, and 8th for SV%. (To find another goalie with more than 800 GP on the career SV% list you have to jump all the way down to Brodeur at 28th.)That sure sounds worthy of the HHoF to me. And he's not even done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 26 minutes ago, poetica said: You make it seem as if having such a long and strong career is nothing. If it's so easy to achieve, why have so few managed it? According to Quant Hockey, on the all time career stats list Luongo is currently 8th for games played, 8th for wins, 13th for shutouts, and 8th for SV%. (To find another goalie with more than 800 GP on the career SV% list you have to jump all the way down to Brodeur at 28th.)That sure sounds worthy of the HHoF to me. And he's not even done. So why is Cujo not in yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: So why is Cujo not in yet? The fact that his career SV% doesn't even make the top 50? Edited December 12, 2015 by poetica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 1 minute ago, poetica said: The fact that his career SV% doesn't even make the top 50? Or maybe the fact that his career list of awards contains only 2 items (WCHA Player of the Year in 88/89 and King Clancy Memorial Trophy in 2000)? I've never heard save percentage as a factor but hardware definitely is. No Vezinas and no Harts or Stanley cups = no HOF ... As much as Cujo and Luongo have had brilliant careers they hold goalies to a different standard to get in the hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 5 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: I've never heard save percentage as a factor but hardware definitely is. No Vezinas and no Harts or Stanley cups = no HOF ... As much as Cujo and Luongo have had brilliant careers they hold goalies to a different standard to get in the hall. Oh, well since you seem to know, what exactly is the criteria for a goalie's nomination? I'd love the link so I can read them for myself. Though, gotta say, I find it hard to believe that having a Cup would be on the list as that is a TEAM achievement, not an individual goalie achievement. And, of course, it was a lot easier to win a Cup before league expansion and the salary cap. Even after that, the goalie isn't always the determining factor. Unless you actually think Niemi deserves a place in the HHoF just because he was in net for one of Chicago's Cup wins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Don't be so lazy and look at the goalies in the hall.... It's fairly obvious that cups and Vezinas get you in there in the last twenty years anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I did look. What I still haven't seen is an official criteria proving that unless a goalie has a Cup win, which again is a TEAM achievement, that they could never get in no matter how illustrious their career is otherwise. That's just ridiculous. And ignores the modern era of expansion and parity. But it's nice to know that you would think Luo deserves a HHoF nomination if only his TEAM had managed to win Game 7, even if it meant his performance wasn't in the slightest bit different than it actually was. It's entirely pointless to give him additional credit for other people's actions, but nice to know all the same I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Dominic Hasek 6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, 2 Harts, 3 Jennings, 6 first team all star selections and 2 Stanley cups Ed Belfour 1 Calder, 2 Vezinas, 4 Jennings, 2 first team all star selections and 1 Stanley cup Patrick Roy 3 Vezinas, 5 Jennings, 3 Conn Smythes, 4 first team all star selections and 4 Stanley Cups Grant Fuhr 1 Jennings, 1 Vezina, 1first team all star selection, and 5 Stanley Cups Billy Smith 1 Vezina, 1 Jennings, 1 conn Smythe, 1 first team all star selection and 4 Stanley Cups Roberto Luongo 1 Jennings See a pattern here? These are the goalies inducted that played in the 80's or later. No Vezinas, or Cups or First team all star selections doesn't bode well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 No one is arguing that those goalies didn't deserve HHoF induction. You are arguing that Luo doesn't. So for you to actually show a pattern you need to list the goalies who had similar careers to Luo who weren't inducted. Oh, and don't forget to update your information on Luo before finding them. You can start by adding his other NHL awards in addition to the Jennings: NHL YoungStars Game (2002), NHL Second All-Star Team (2004, 2007), Mark Messier Leadership Award (March 2007), and NHL All-Star Game (2004, 2007, 2008*, 2009 - * Named starter but didn't play.). And of course, it is the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL Hall of Fame, so that long list of other awards, including his 2 Olympic gold medals, 2 IIHF World gold medals, and a World Cup championship, might actually factor in. But I look forward to your list of other similarly accomplished goalies snubbed for the HHOF because they lack a Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 36 minutes ago, poetica said: You can start by adding his other NHL awards in addition to the Jennings: NHL YoungStars Game (2002), NHL Second All-Star Team (2004, 2007), Mark Messier Leadership Award (March 2007), and NHL All-Star Game (2004, 2007, 2008*, 2009 - * Named starter but didn't play.). Second all star team? Going to the hall because he was second best for two years.... Leadership award? Yeah that will do it. All star game? Somehow I don't think a fan voted team will sway the vote. Listen I am not arguing against him I am pointing out the flaws with the HOF system. Only goalies who have been the best goalie in the league for multiple years and/ or have a cup or more have been inducted over a long period of time. It is so wrong but that's the way it is. Rosie Vachon, Tom Barasso, Mike Vernon all come to mind as goalies who should be in there also. Now if they are not in there I don't see how they get overlooked to vote Luongo in. Right or wrong that is just the way it is. And let's not forget Cujo... That guy was very similar to Lui and also had no major awards or cups. But the first three have all the hardware and have just been forgotten. i just don't see them putting Lui in there with no awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Weird. You seemed to think the All Star mattered on your list...well, for everyone but Luo. Either way, you are right there are flaws in the system and some good goalies have been overlooked. (Though I absolutely disagree that Cujo was comparable to Luo. Not even close.) We'll just have to wait and see how the committee views Luo's accomplishments when it's all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 9 minutes ago, poetica said: Weird. You seemed to think the All Star mattered on your list...well, for everyone but Luo. Either way, you are right there are flaws in the system and some good goalies have been overlooked. (Though I absolutely disagree that Cujo was comparable to Luo. Not even close.) We'll just have to wait and see how the committee views Luo's accomplishments when it's all said and done. Luongo only had two second team all star nominations, I didn't list the second team nominations for the previous five only first team nominations. Lui has never had a first team nomination. Unless you are thinking of the all star game which is something totally different and voted by the fans. Weird? Maybe your lack of knowledge about the game that's all. Did you watch hockey when Cujo was playing? The guy was a workhorse and made bad teams a whole lot better than they should have been . On top of that he had some legendary playoff performances where he did everything but win single handedly. And much like Lui the press painted him with a similar brush. Very similar career numbers and very similar career results is why these two are so comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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