bobbyg43 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, coolboarder said: Obtaining a first liner or a top defenceman prospects are harder to come by and is still possible to have them from later round picks. The main thing is the development program. If we have a great development program, we can then develop players to become like one even if they were not projected to be like one. Remember Edler were hyped to be a top defenceman but failed to be like one and is playing as #2 or #3 on most teams. He failed to reach because we did not develop him properly to be like one. We have a great development coach in Travis Green but I am afraid that he could be poached by other teams if we don't promote him and even if he is promoted to be a Canucks head coach, we are left without a top development coach in the farm system is my biggest concern. I do not know who will be Utica's next coach and whether he would be a great development coach is another issue. Drafting is like lottery because if we pick someone, we hope that player will become a top-tier player for us. Top 5 picks are not guaranteed that he will become like the first liner or a top defenceman potential. We should stay on course and hope that we make the playoffs and imo, the playoff is a great development tool for our young player no matter how you slice it by claiming that top 5 pick is better than playoffs. Our priority should be developing our current prospects to become a top-tier players regardless where they came from. A late round pick could be a superstar for us if we got lucky. Scouting is good as long as we pick right type of player. We could pick top 5 and could get in a messy situation like Drouin. If we ever got a top 5 in this year draft and we happen to draft a player like Drouin and were forced to trade him away then this year would be considered a wasted year because we tank on purpose and could potential create a losing culture. I wouldn't want that, just let the course take care of itself and who knows could surprise us with good things. I agree ,but ,if we get a top 5 pick like Drouin we already game plan it out he stays in jr till he of age to go to the AHL and stays there for min of year + I would say two, but the kid may be so good we could not keep him down there that long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 52 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: I think the way they set the tone is different than what most people might imagine, or think. They control the play. If that's not setting a tone for a game, not sure what would. But I agree. Sedins are very tough players (mentally, and physically). Hank was ironman streak for a number of years, no? I just don't understand how people in other markets just don't respect them. They deserve much more respect than what they've received over the years. Much more. I don't disagree in part. But it can also be debated that in the playoffs other teams sometimes just let them control the outside where every once in awhile something magic will happen but often all that passing and perimeter play does not lead to good scoring chances. They will always get their points because they are excellent players. But in the playoffs I don't see them really leading by example the way that a sometimes too laid back team might need. If they aren't scoring they are not really the type to lead other ways, that's all I was saying. And it is not in them. The makeup of the team and what it might need also plays into it. And the last several playoffs have shown that they could maybe use a little more fire and passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 hour ago, coolboarder said: Obtaining a first liner or a top defenceman prospects are harder to come by and is still possible to have them from later round picks. The main thing is the development program. If we have a great development program, we can then develop players to become like one even if they were not projected to be like one. Remember Edler were hyped to be a top defenceman but failed to be like one and is playing as #2 or #3 on most teams. He failed to reach because we did not develop him properly to be like one. We have a great development coach in Travis Green but I am afraid that he could be poached by other teams if we don't promote him and even if he is promoted to be a Canucks head coach, we are left without a top development coach in the farm system is my biggest concern. I do not know who will be Utica's next coach and whether he would be a great development coach is another issue. Drafting is like lottery because if we pick someone, we hope that player will become a top-tier player for us. Top 5 picks are not guaranteed that he will become like the first liner or a top defenceman potential. We should stay on course and hope that we make the playoffs and imo, the playoff is a great development tool for our young player no matter how you slice it by claiming that top 5 pick is better than playoffs. Our priority should be developing our current prospects to become a top-tier players regardless where they came from. A late round pick could be a superstar for us if we got lucky. Scouting is good as long as we pick right type of player. We could pick top 5 and could get in a messy situation like Drouin. If we ever got a top 5 in this year draft and we happen to draft a player like Drouin and were forced to trade him away then this year would be considered a wasted year because we tank on purpose and could potential create a losing culture. I wouldn't want that, just let the course take care of itself and who knows could surprise us with good things. I don't disagree with the general tone of your post. I do disagree with your assessment of Edler. Or at least buying into hype on Edler? Edler to me is the perfect example of why we should draft, semi routinely, defenseman at least in proportion to forwards in early rounds. I think we achieved a near perfect development curve with Edler. He has rounded out into an absolutely solid overall defenseman. He offers strength in board battles, decent mobility, a rocket of a shot, punishes guys occasionally with hits, good overall positional play, above average puck skills...Sure he had / has his limitations. Torterella mis-using him, bad back at times. He was a 91st overall pick. And one of the best invested picks we have ever had. He shot past 1st rounder Bourdon his first training camp, made the team sooner and was always going to be the better player? Considering he has been an all star, and fundamentally our best, or 2knd best defenseman for the better part of 10 years. Debatably, only behind Lou and the Twins as our best performer over that period? He should be viewed as a success! of development! The problem was when a mania set in, and people projected him to be a Lidstrom. I have a news flash; as much as he is a mobile D for his large frame, he never, ever, had the explosive quickness and elite speed of Lidstrom. Nor the endurance, a factor which helps make the Twins elite. Or the pure raw strength and power of the Weber / Pronger type rough and tumble D. Without possessing elite athleticism, there was never any reason to think he would become a Norris candidate. Blanket fact, players who have each of a significant body highly competitive success, elite skills and elite athleticism nearly always go top 5. And yet elite players still surface picked later in the draft. Subban and Chara had not grown in to their bodies yet. So to an extent drafting teams got at least a fair bit lucky. Weber is a great example of scouting. He had only a handful of junior goals in limited minutes. But his raw athleticism, power and shot were recognized. And developed. He was picked later because he had no resume of existing dominating performances. As a general rule though the elite player will not surface, regardless of draft pedigree, unless there is evidence of said elite skills and athleticism. And therein lies the underlying fundamental of draft steals. And we can see Benning pulling strings. Guys like McCann, even Zhukenov have upper echelons of speed, quickness and puck skills. Brisbois looks like he could be another Edler? Of course if Zhuk gets in the gym and ends up with shoulders & thighs like Pavel Bure (they do have a similar frame) his odds get better. And when a guy in his draft year, even if a slight level down in athleticism, is already training like a demon (say Horvat) there is also evidence they can make the jump to being elite? And its important not to underestimate the value of compete level. See Horvat again. In fact its critical to take note as superb athleticism can be wasted without it. But it is still hard to project the average athlete, say Cassels (I argued this this past summer btw, when everyone was on his bandwagon) as being better than McCann who simply has three extra gears? A bigger, faster, stronger athlete is virtually always a handful for a guy with more skills that does not have it. In reality development is putting the missing parts of a guys fundamentals into their game. Enhancing their raw strengths. And there is still nothing wrong with drafting a guy, preferably in the 2knd to 4th round, who has fundamentally sound skills and good but not great athletic ability. Gaunce comes to mind. Then pencilling them in to hopefully be, well, Alex Edler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Prophet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 15 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: I don't disagree in part. But it can also be debated that in the playoffs other teams sometimes just let them control the outside where every once in awhile something magic will happen but often all that passing and perimeter play does not lead to good scoring chances. They will always get their points because they are excellent players. But in the playoffs I don't see them really leading by example the way that a sometimes too laid back team might need. If they aren't scoring they are not really the type to lead other ways, that's all I was saying. And it is not in them. The makeup of the team and what it might need also plays into it. And the last several playoffs have shown that they could maybe use a little more fire and passion. This is not untrue. Some of the great teams of the 2000s-2010s have found ways to shut down the Sedins in the playoffs. Usually by breaking them down physically. Players like Toews and Kane can't be stopped, for the most part. They live for the clutch moments, and that's when they play their best hockey. How many times have Toews or Kane scored the game winner? That's just how it goes, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Since we are less than a month away from the trade deadline I thought I should post a summary of what he said earlier today http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/benning-three-weeks-to-evaluate-where-team-is-at-1.433132 -Keeping an eye on whats going on, long term they are building for the future -Hoping we can compete for a playoff spot -Has had a couple calls about pending UFAs -Wants to see were we're are at the trade deadline, pro scouting meetings are happening next week. -Hasn't had too many calls about Hamhuis -Will take about the possiblity of resigning Hamhuis at the pro scouting meetings. -Talked to some teams on Prust, was waiting for one more team to get back to him (obviously it didn't plan out) -Schedule works in the Canucks favour, but only if they start to win some teams -McCann is on a program (2 weeks in the weight room) -Shinkaruk could get a chance to play down the stretch, talks to Travis daily. In a perfect world he would be ready next year. -Teams don't like trading good defence man, says they want to draft and develop their own defence man. -Willie has done an excellent job, developing our young players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockhart Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I don't see how people see Edler as a failure, he was drafted 91st overall and has been a solid top 4 D. A few years ago he seemed a bit better but I think since then he's had a few injuries that have probably set him back, that being said he is a good for his cap hit of 5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 hour ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said: 4 minutes ago, Lockhart said: 4 minutes ago, Lockhart said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Edler has over achieved. I agree. Late draft. Solid career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, Canucks Prophet said: This is not untrue. Some of the great teams of the 2000s-2010s have found ways to shut down the Sedins in the playoffs. Usually by breaking them down physically. Players like Toews and Kane can't be stopped, for the most part. They live for the clutch moments, and that's when they play their best hockey. How many times have Toews or Kane scored the game winner? That's just how it goes, I guess. An underrated part of that comes down to the quality of a teams depth. If other teams can key on your top players to the point of essentially ignoring any other line, like they have been able to do with the Sedins pretty much every year, it makes it much tougher on those players to be difference makers. Clutch top players always make that difference but so does clutch depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanstorm Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Nice prime up McCann as much as you McCann and hopefully he will beast it up for us if we make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigs Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 They need to move some vets at the deadline and go for a top 5 pick this year. It's the best (and only) plan for the future by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 On 2/3/2016 at 8:56 AM, NUCKER67 said: On 2/3/2016 at 7:45 PM, JamesB said: You are right about that. In interviews with Gillis it always seemed like he thought of reporters as the enemy. He was aloof and defensive and secretive -- and that was when things were going well. Benning does come across as more open and honest and he seems to understand that the reporters are just doing their job and everyone is on the same side -- hoping for the Canucks to do well. Benning seems to give away more to other GMs (and player agents) than some people would like. But getting a reputation for being honest and being a straight shooter has its upside. Other GMs (allegedly) did not like dealing with Gillis and, in most of his deals, he did not do well. I think Benning has a much better record so far. (Although not everything works out -- like the Prust deal.) My biggest complaint about JB is cap management and overpayment. But I have no complaints about the Biega deal. Two years at a cap hit of 750K (not much above the NHL minimum) for a guy who can play in the #5 or #6 spot and not hurt the team is good value. Your kidding right? Remember when the media ate up a few hours of time playing 50 questions during the summer 2014 while gm’s were searching FA’s? right after that they signed Vrbata while better FAs were being signed. The truth is nowhere in the NHL is the media treated better than Vancouver. Yet except for Ian McIntyre and Don Taylor, they have nothing to show for the generosity they enjoy from an organization that’s shot itself in the foot the past five years. Have you listened to the Team1040 radio shows? Sekeras and co. are a JOKE and as informative, insightful and entertaining as stale crackers. Mike Gillis might have bombed a few deals transactions but his biggest mistake was not limiting his accessibility to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Sounds like a plan. As long as they move Vrbata and Hamhuis by the deadline, it would be fine to re-sign Hammer on July 1. But we do need the picks and prospects those 2 can bring. And if we are going to draft and develop our own D, maybe we need to, umm, actually dedicate some top picks to that end. But I'm sure JB sees what we do and will act appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockhart Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 13 minutes ago, Canucks Prophet said: This is not untrue. Some of the great teams of the 2000s-2010s have found ways to shut down the Sedins in the playoffs. Usually by breaking them down physically. Players like Toews and Kane can't be stopped, for the most part. They live for the clutch moments, and that's when they play their best hockey. How many times have Toews or Kane scored the game winner? That's just how it goes, I guess. A lot of the times the Sedin's have been shut down there was no secondary scoring, Kesler was ok once in a while but we have rarely had a good 2nd line outside of say that cup run year or the year we had Sundin (for a limited time) Crosby has been shut down, Malkin has been shut down. We shouldn't have to rely on the Sedin's to carry the us all the time but these last few years we have. Kane and Toews also have/had players like Hossa,Sharp,Keith and Seabrook around them. When was the last time we've had an elite puck moving D-man? Even Seabrook their number 2 would be the best on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Yeah, saw this updated earlier in the previous Benning Talking To Media thread. Not a lot of revelatory stuff there, but nice they were still looking to find a home for Prust (which we know now hasn't happened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thx GS. hopefully this will clear the air for those crying about Canners deployment and wether Willy is handling the kids properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockhart Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 McCann is going to put on so much muscle with a whole 2 weeks in the weight room (sarcasm for those who can't tell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckylager Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Had calls about UFA's, but not many about Hammer, Shinkaruk may get a shot.... thinking long term.... Vrbs as good as gone, regardless of where we're at TDL. Hammer might stay. Kinda what I got from that. Maybe they've maxed Hansen's value and he's gone too... Burr goes back to RW .. Maybe he's gone as well? Oh, the possibilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boddy604 Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Sounds like Vrbata he's willing to move. Moving him is basically the definition of long term building for the future. Of course there hasn't been much interest in Hamhuis, there won't be until he gets some games in and people see how his game is after such a brutal injury. People will hate it but benching McCann to put him on weights is a smart move. His game is fine, his strength is not. Don't mind if Hamhuis stays (although a return would be nice), Vrbata has to go though. Bartkowski too if Hamhuis stays and Tryamkin won't take an AHL deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 McCann should spend the whole year lifting heavy weight and eating 300 grams of protein every day to reach Super Saiyan status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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