Bo Horvat | #53 | C

[avelanch]

you do realize that if he is sent to the wjhc that he will be returned to London right?

Maybe...

NNow im second guessing myself.

Can someone look into that?

that's not true, a player loaned to TC for the WJC is returned back to their NHL team upon completion of the tourney, unless the NHL team determines that they should return to their junior club at that time..

Edited July 31, 2014 by avelanch

[Off_The_Schneid!]

People are undervaluing playing in the nhl regardless of being on the 4th line.

NHL coaching

NHL practices

NHL trainers and nutritionists

Learning a teams systems

Developing player bonds

If he sat in the press box for half the season and only practiced with the team he would be better off then being in juniors

[avelanch]

People are undervaluing playing in the nhl regardless of being on the 4th line.

NHL coaching

NHL practices

NHL trainers and nutritionists

Learning a teams systems

Developing player bonds

If he sat in the press box for half the season and only practiced with the team he would be better off then being in juniors

that last bit is not even remotely true. he still needs to play.

[Devoted]

Plum;

Different era but 'The Flower' played the better part of 3 seasons on the Montreal 4th line. Tardiff-Huel-LaFleur. They PK'ed a lot.

Horvat's camp will probably tell the tale. He will have a lot of compete in the bottom 6. I cannot see WD keeping him unless they can see a way for giving him TOI. I do not consider this a CUP contending roster so the TOI can be spread much more which might help Horvat stick. That said there are others who management might want to have a look at to determine whether to keep them long term or not.

I completely agree. Posters who are obsessed with Horvat playing on line #1 or line #4 need to realize that if Bo is ready to play in the NHL, then playing in the NHL will help him develop. Even if he plays against other teams so-called 4th line at some points.

If Bo is not quite ready to play in the NHL? Then you send him back to junior, and allow him to start his pro career in Utica or Vancouver the following season.

Why does a player's path have to be so defined so early? I'm certain Linden, Benning, Smyl, and Willy D will all come together and decide what is best for Horvat's development and what is best for the Vancouver Canucks. And I very much doubt they concern themselves with what Player X, Y and Z did for their clubs in previous years and in varying situations.

[Off_The_Schneid!]

Your overvaluing the London knights

[Fred65]

Why did Horvat turn up 10 lbs overweight to the prospects camp ..... and then admitts he needs to loose 10 lbs to compete. As Desjardine said if you want to improve it starts today....not next week or next month. Maybe he's guy that is going to have weight problem long term

[avelanch]

I completely agree. Posters who are obsessed with Horvat playing on line #1 or line #4 need to realize that if Bo is ready to play in the NHL, then playing in the NHL will help him develop. Even if he plays against other teams so-called 4th line at some points.

If Bo is not quite ready to play in the NHL? Then you send him back to junior, and allow him to start his pro career in Utica or Vancouver the following season.

Why does a player's path have to be so defined so early? I'm certain Linden, Benning, Smyl, and Willy D will all come together and decide what is best for Horvat's development and what is best for the Vancouver Canucks. And I very much doubt they concern themselves with what Player X, Y and Z did for their clubs in previous years and in varying situations.

if anything playing against the other team's 4th would make it easier on Bo, and he'd have better success giving him more confidence. If we were to play our 4th 10 min a night, give or take, it would force any team that is line matching to play their own 4th line 10 min a game, which should bode well for us if we ice a good 4th line vs a plug 4th line.

[Off_The_Schneid!]

Why did Horvat turn up 10 lbs overweight to the prospects camp ..... and then admitts he needs to loose 10 lbs to compete. As Desjardine said if you want to improve it starts today....not next week or next month. Maybe he's guy that is going to have weight problem long term

Maybe he was told by the canucks to lose the 10lbs. Not a big deal I'm roughly the same size and weight and at that age I could lose 10lbs in a week. It's really not a big deal, he was just reiterating what others had told him. He could have been putting on muscle in his offseason thinking that's what he needed to do

[Brad Marchand]

Why did Horvat turn up 10 lbs overweight to the prospects camp ..... and then admitts he needs to loose 10 lbs to compete. As Desjardine said if you want to improve it starts today....not next week or next month. Maybe he's guy that is going to have weight problem long term

His team still finished with the fastest time at the Grouse Grind during camp so I doubt his weight is affecting his conditioning.

This is probably more about losing weight to gain some extra speed.

[KassianBeastMode]

I completely agree. Posters who are obsessed with Horvat playing on line #1 or line #4 need to realize that if Bo is ready to play in the NHL, then playing in the NHL will help him develop. Even if he plays against other teams so-called 4th line at some points.

If Bo is not quite ready to play in the NHL? Then you send him back to junior, and allow him to start his pro career in Utica or Vancouver the following season.

Why does a player's path have to be so defined so early? I'm certain Linden, Benning, Smyl, and Willy D will all come together and decide what is best for Horvat's development and what is best for the Vancouver Canucks. And I very much doubt they concern themselves with what Player X, Y and Z did for their clubs in previous years and in varying situations.

Most of the poster's here don't subscribe to the same development process that Benning/Linden and older fans do, that being 'earning their way up the lineup'.

I believe many on this site are in their late teens early 20's and really have a different expectation and view of both life and how opportunities are created.

A. In the 70's, 80's an 90's it was common place for young players to spend a few years in the minors.

B. After that, they earned their way up the lineup, often starting on the third/fourth lines and proving year by year they could contribute more and more and then moved to the second and first if they were capable - key here, movement up the lineup was earned, not given.

C. A few players clearly never go through that (pure elite skilled players (sakic's, forsberg's etc, and team's in need of talent desperately, ie Linden).

D. Now, people may argue that Horvat is a higher talent player, but for every Linden that has made the jump there are players like Nedved who was almost busted (to this day suprised he didn't), by being rushed too early into offensive pressure situations. Stefan, Brendl, Daigle, etc etc...Nedved didn't bust but he certainly came close and was not ready to be in the NHL when brought in....the others clearly busted.

E. Earning a spot not only allows the player to develop, it instills the right attitude within the team, within the player, and the organization. That merit gets you there, not where you are drafted - as we see with Kassian.

F. I believe, many in Generation Y (and I see it in those I hire), seem to believe that they are deserving of very important roles without experience, this a generational attitude and its seen even amongst players now - ie Cody Hodgson. They perhaps believe, youth and energy trump, the knowledge gained via years of experience, and perhaps its been caused be parents who provided every kid with a ribbon, leading to an 'entitlement' attitude.

G. The idea of experience, developing your skill set, contributing to the team is secondary to personal goals amongst many in that group (not all but those who subscribe to what I have described). It is why Cody Hodgson didn't want to wait his turn behind an Art Ross and Selke winning center.

H. In the 70's and 80's I remember players talking about learning their craft, about who they got to learn from, back then a young center would have seen the opportunity Hodgson had as a dream, learn from 2 of the best in the game at their respective roles? offensively and defensively? but no, he was 'owed' a bigger role. Well look at how that turned out....Likely moved to the wing because he isn't a good skater, terrible defensively and terrible in the circle...yup getting paid though = personal goals achieved, team goals nope!

Horvat if he's ready, can play on the 4th line and SHOULD....let him learn how to compete at this level vs MEN, let him show he can compete every night, play a 200 ft game, play hard every shift and contribute more than Bonino, more than Richardson, more than Matthias, before he's given the second or third line role.

This is what many here just don't seem to get....

Edited July 31, 2014 by KassianBeastMode

[73 Percent]

that's not true, a player loaned to TC for the WJC is returned back to their NHL team upon completion of the tourney, unless the NHL team determines that they should return to their junior club at that time..

ah.

Thanks for clearing that up avelanch

[Tearloch7]

Most of the poster's here don't subscribe to the same development process that Benning/Linden and older fans do, that being 'earning their way up the lineup'.

I believe many on this site are in their late teens early 20's and really have a different expectation and view of both life and how opportunities are created.

A. In the 70's, 80's an 90's it was common place for young players to spend a few years in the minors.

B. After that, they earned their way up the lineup, often starting on the third/fourth lines and proving year by year they could contribute more and more and then moved to the second and first if they were capable - key here, movement up the lineup was earned, not given.

C. A few players clearly never go through that (pure elite skilled players (sakic's, forsberg's etc, and team's in need of talent desperately, ie Linden).

D. Now, people may argue that Horvat is a higher talent player, but for every Linden that has made the jump there are players like Nedved who was almost busted (to this day suprised he didn't), by being rushed too early into offensive pressure situations. Stefan, Brendl, Daigle, etc etc...Nedved didn't bust but he certainly came close and was not ready to be in the NHL when brought in....the others clearly busted.

E. Earning a spot not only allows the player to develop, it instills the right attitude within the team, within the player, and the organization. That merit gets you there, not where you are drafted - as we see with Kassian.

F. I believe, many in Generation Y (and I see it in those I hire), seem to believe that they are deserving of very important roles without experience, this a generational attitude and its seen even amongst players now - ie Cody Hodgson. They perhaps believe, youth and energy trump, the knowledge gained via years of experience, and perhaps its been caused be parents who provided every kid with a ribbon, leading to an 'entitlement' attitude.

G. The idea of experience, developing your skill set, contributing to the team is secondary to personal goals amongst many in that group (not all but those who subscribe to what I have described). It is why Cody Hodgson didn't want to wait his turn behind an Art Ross and Selke winning center.

H. In the 70's and 80's I remember players talking about learning their craft, about who they got to learn from, back then a young center would have seen the opportunity Hodgson had as a dream, learn from 2 of the best in the game at their respective roles? offensively and defensively? but no, he was 'owed' a bigger role. Well look at how that turned out....Likely moved to the wing because he isn't a good skater, terrible defensively and terrible in the circle...yup getting paid though = personal goals achieved, team goals nope!

Horvat if he's ready, can play on the 4th line and SHOULD....let him learn how to compete at this level vs MEN, let him show he can compete every night, play a 200 ft game, play hard every shift and contribute more than Bonino, more than Richardson, more than Matthias, before he's given the second or third line role.

This is what many here just don't seem to get....

Wonderful perspective .. I believe THIS Management Group is all about 'earning your way', unlike teams like the Oilers, who are 'forced' to rush every prospect

[aGENT]

I completely agree. Posters who are obsessed with Horvat playing on line #1 or line #4 need to realize that if Bo is ready to play in the NHL, then playing in the NHL will help him develop. Even if he plays against other teams so-called 4th line at some points.

If Bo is not quite ready to play in the NHL? Then you send him back to junior, and allow him to start his pro career in Utica or Vancouver the following season.

Why does a player's path have to be so defined so early? I'm certain Linden, Benning, Smyl, and Willy D will all come together and decide what is best for Horvat's development and what is best for the Vancouver Canucks. And I very much doubt they concern themselves with what Player X, Y and Z did for their clubs in previous years and in varying situations.

Most of the poster's here don't subscribe to the same development process that Benning/Linden and older fans do, that being 'earning their way up the lineup'.

I believe many on this site are in their late teens early 20's and really have a different expectation and view of both life and how opportunities are created.

A. In the 70's, 80's an 90's it was common place for young players to spend a few years in the minors.

B. After that, they earned their way up the lineup, often starting on the third/fourth lines and proving year by year they could contribute more and more and then moved to the second and first if they were capable - key here, movement up the lineup was earned, not given.

C. A few players clearly never go through that (pure elite skilled players (sakic's, forsberg's etc, and team's in need of talent desperately, ie Linden).

D. Now, people may argue that Horvat is a higher talent player, but for every Linden that has made the jump there are players like Nedved who was almost busted (to this day suprised he didn't), by being rushed too early into offensive pressure situations. Stefan, Brendl, Daigle, etc etc...Nedved didn't bust but he certainly came close and was not ready to be in the NHL when brought in....the others clearly busted.

E. Earning a spot not only allows the player to develop, it instills the right attitude within the team, within the player, and the organization. That merit gets you there, not where you are drafted - as we see with Kassian.

F. I believe, many in Generation Y (and I see it in those I hire), seem to believe that they are deserving of very important roles without experience, this a generational attitude and its seen even amongst players now - ie Cody Hodgson. They perhaps believe, youth and energy trump, the knowledge gained via years of experience, and perhaps its been caused be parents who provided every kid with a ribbon, leading to an 'entitlement' attitude.

G. The idea of experience, developing your skill set, contributing to the team is secondary to personal goals amongst many in that group (not all but those who subscribe to what I have described). It is why Cody Hodgson didn't want to wait his turn behind an Art Ross and Selke winning center.

H. In the 70's and 80's I remember players talking about learning their craft, about who they got to learn from, back then a young center would have seen the opportunity Hodgson had as a dream, learn from 2 of the best in the game at their respective roles? offensively and defensively? but no, he was 'owed' a bigger role. Well look at how that turned out....Likely moved to the wing because he isn't a good skater, terrible defensively and terrible in the circle...yup getting paid though = personal goals achieved, team goals nope!

Horvat if he's ready, can play on the 4th line and SHOULD....let him learn how to compete at this level vs MEN, let him show he can compete every night, play a 200 ft game, play hard every shift and contribute more than Bonino, more than Richardson, more than Matthias, before he's given the second or third line role.

This is what many here just don't seem to get....

Pretty much exactly this ^ and that ^^.

Plum, you're out to lunch on this one.

[aGENT]

That doesn't mean it's okay to have a young developing player on the 4th line. Kassian has top 6 potential but it's okay even if he's 4 years in his development to play on the 4th line? Explain why it's okay.

I know he can move up and down but your point was to play him on the 4th line, who knows when injuries occur. It's top 9 or junior plain and simple. What 4th liners play on the PP and the PK? Maybe PK but he isn't a 4th liner if he's playing on the PP. This is probably the weirdest time of development I've ever heard, let's start a top 10 pick on the 4th line and then get him on the special teams. Who does that? What successful prospect has ever done that? Injuries occur obviously but we're talking about majority of the time being a 4th liner. If you're going to tell me he's going to play in the top 9 for a good chunk of time in the NHL and he's ready for it than I'm fine.

Why is Horvat going to play on the PP though? If he was good enough for the PP than he wouldn't be on the 4th line. Defensively he'll be fine for the NHL but why should he take a spot from Higgins/Kassian/Hansen/Vey? Are we trying to win a game or develop one kid? I'm not going to pay my money to go see a kid on the 2nd PP unit just because we want to develop him. I want to see them try and win not develop one kid. Sedins, Burrows, Kassian, Bonino, Vrbata should be the 6 guys on the PP, they're better than Horvat offensively. I think that's ridiculous. Sure injuries occur but than he should take time away from Higgins, Hansen, Vey?

Why is it better for him to develop on the 4th line instead of top notch junior kids with a ton of skill? Sure he'll step into the top 9 but what if he isn't ready for top 9 minutes? Send him down because he's only good enough for 4th line minutes?

If Kassian's play (or lack thereof) has earned him a fourth line spot, then that's where he should play. Though the point I was actually making (reading comprehension issues arising again) is that IMO (and a lot of fans last year apparently) his play and current level of experience warranted him a little rope in the middle 6 (which is where he ended up towards the end of the year FWIW). Horvat has not proven or earned any of that. Yet.

Personally I think playing him on the 2nd PP (and 2nd/3rd unit PK) is perfect for developing him regardless of if he's playing on the 3rd or 4th lines. The PP would allow him to develop his offensive game under less pressure/with more space than 5v5. Again, he wouldn't simply be handed that time, he'd have to earn it. His ability to win faceoffs would be one of the reasons he'd earn it over a guy like Hansen, Higgins etc. Horvat, Bonino, Kassian as the second unit forwards might not look bad at all, if he earns it.

2nd/3rd unit PK time would continue his defensive development against weaker 2nd PP units and play to is strengths. If Hansen does indeed get traded I could easily see something like Burrows/Bonino, Higgins/Richardson, Matthias/Horvat as the PK forward pairings.

NHL 3rd and 4thh liners are still VERY good hockey players, especially on the better teams in the league, compared to Junior players. He's better off playing against them because he'll be playing against men at a higher calibre of play, learning the "sprint" pace of the NHL vs the "marathon" pace of the OHL and be given more responsibility and tougher work as his play earns it.

Not to mention the higher caliber NHL coaching/players to learn from, NHL practices, NHL trainers and nutritionists etc that were mentioned earlier.

Edited July 31, 2014 by J.R.

[elvis15]

I think someone needs to throw in the towel for Plum on this one - he's talked himself in circles and is eating his own tail.

Why did Horvat turn up 10 lbs overweight to the prospects camp ..... and then admitts he needs to loose 10 lbs to compete. As Desjardine said if you want to improve it starts today....not next week or next month. Maybe he's guy that is going to have weight problem long term

Most athletes use the offseason to try and gain back muscle mass lost during the previous season. Particularly in the case of prospects still growing and developing, they're trying to build their strength beyond what it ever had been to prepare for a career as a professional and that can mean adding unwanted weight at the same time. When that happens, players typically are able to lose that extra weight as part of their normal training leading up to the season.

Having 10 lbs he'd like to lose doesn't mean he's been on the Big Buff offseason diet or that he's genetically predisposed to weight gain. It's much more likely he's just training naturally and he'll be tightening up that training as we get closer to training camp to focus more on fitness and becoming more lean to help his skating and endurance after having built up some muscle mass earlier in the offseason.

[Plum]

.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Plum

[73 Percent]

.

avelanch looked it up earlier. A player can be loaned to the wjhc and returned to his nhl club after the tournament.

[SamJamIam]

avelanch looked it up earlier. A player can be loaned to the wjhc and returned to his nhl club after the tournament.

Oh sweet baby Jesus. Only if their CHL team releases them...which London won't.

[avelanch]

avelanch looked it up earlier. A player can be loaned to the wjhc and returned to his nhl club after the tournament.

yup, just like brett connolly did in 2012. Matt Dumba was returned to his CHL team last year because the wild felt he wasn't ready to continue in the NHL (only 2 points in 13 games) and the rebels traded him to the winterhawks, which was a better environment.

[avelanch]

Oh sweet baby Jesus. Only if their CHL team releases them...which London won't.

NOPE:

NHL rules permit a junior-eligible player to be loaned, then returned, for the World Junior tournament.

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/5110953-74/penguins-maatta-junior#ixzz3954a2udP