ForsbergTheGreat Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: I agree on the long term - but they seem to have a "win now" going and his offensive skill was nice addition for them. He remains a work in progress in his own end and probably why he sees some games under 10 minutes and even less 5 on 5 but no question the kid has NHL offensive skills. Not sure about your Vancouver note though. While Vancouver sure could use his offense, they were a challenged team defensively and will all the injuries on the back end he would have been further exposed potentially and not sure his development could have been as "managed" as they have been able to do for him in Tampa. He may have been just fine, don't have that crystal ball, but I am pretty sure if he was Canuck property he would not have been in NHL this year as scoring a few more power play goals was not going to transform the year for them and it could have harmed this kid's development. Will say this, if the Canucks could have both OJ and Sergachev, that would be great! I think OJ will be the far better overall NHL defender but Sergachev would be a great powerplay specialist and in time can learn the other end of the rink too. I think the risk/reward is always there with a kid like Sergachev as the basement is a lot lower than a kid like OJ (take DP - at 25 still trying to figure it out and he was a stud of an offensive dman in CHL and even in first pro sniffs) but with patience and development, that high ceiling is pretty nice too. Sergachev isn’t that bad defensively. He makes mistakes but that’s to be expected when you’re 19 and in the NHL. He’s far from a finished product. The thing about the bolts is they have Girardi and Coburn to take up a ton of the shutdown role. And then they added in McDonagh which leaves zero need for them to count on a rookie in those situations. In the OHL he was used in every situation, a big minute muncher that was counted on to do it all. It’s why he was voted as OHL D man of the year in his first NA season. The kid is gifted and playing sheltered in a rookie season is nothing that should take away from his success, when Juolevi makes the jump I fully expect him to also be sheltered. People act as him being on Tampa is the only reason he was able to put up 40 points but fail to realize that in the last 6 years only him and Hedman are the only two D to crack the 40 point mark. It’s extremely impressive anytime a D cracked 40 points, let alone a 19 year in his first professional season. As he gets older and more confident he will play more and be counted on more in different situations. JB’s motto is earn your spot. He would have easily beat out who we had iced this year. His goal total matched, Pouliot, Gubranson, Hutton, Stecher, Biega and Tanev combined. Our back end was already exposed with us icing pouliot and hutton. It doesn’t help that Tanev and Guddy got hurt but no one would have been able to foresee that. A Sergachev Gudbranson pairing would have been scary good. I think at the time of the draft you are right, he was high risk/reward and not all the time offensive players can translate into the NHL, but TODAY, Sergachev is a proven 40 point player. That’s more than Pouliot has in his career and as you said he’s already 25 year old where Sergachev is only 20. I think OJ will be a solid D in the NHL and I think he will take some time to adjust in a similar career path to Ellis who’s only in the last few years has been starting to show his impact at the NHL level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: This is why it's nice to have a guy like Hedman to eat up a lot of minutes to allow for the NHL type development. The Canucks have no one of that calibre and that's why if you're a defender here, you get thrown into the fire as everyone is needed. This is why the way the Canucks are developing Juolevi is the right way of doing it even if it takes a bit longer to get into the NHL. Here's what I find amusing. A guy like Sergachev is viewed so highly (best dman in the draft, should've drafted him at 5, etc), yet a guy like Hamilton is viewed so lowly (poor defense, soft, worth at best a low 1st, needs to be packaged with Bennett to be worth it, etc). Well first people are crazy if they think dougie is only worth a late first. CDC has a habit of undervaluing other teams assets and overvaluing our own. 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: Aside from a 4 year difference (both drafted 9th overall), they seem to be very similar in style of play, yet the difference in opinion on these guys are vastly different. Second of all there offensive skill set is similar but that where the similarities end. there style of play is vastly different. Dougie is an emotionless, soft D, is 6’6 but plays like he is 5’10. Sergachev is not. He likes the physical play and he’s a battler. He’s got the hands to control the puck and dangle his way out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2018 by Herberts Vasiljevs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Really excited to see Oli at this years camp. He is going to surprise a lot of people with how good he is. And he has way more offensive upside than given credit for. We tend to forget he is just a kid and doing not bad. I think he is just 19? Anyways he will be a big surprise for the good next year. And another player the Canucks drafted will be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 2018-05-07 at 1:23 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said: He’s far from a finished product. I think you meant to say..... “He’s far from a Finnish product” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 2018-05-06 at 3:17 PM, bp79 said: Actually, I speak fluent Finnish. Zepp wasn't lying nor am I He had the flu at the WjC. It must be so sad to know that the 2 guys who liked your hateful post were the guy's everybody hates and everybody can't stand. Your buddy Dahlin there is so 2 faced. In one post he said OJ was a bust. after admittingly never once see him play. fast forward to a month ago and OJ was getting all types of praise for his work in the playoffs, and the guy goes ya he should be on our 1st line and is untradeable. Yey a month before that he was a bust we should trade know before hew loses any more value. You FTG and dahlin26 aka Bubbles Julien and Ricky. By you know Zepp was lying how? because his truth threw cold water on your hate and lies? Why don't you and bubbles and Ricky go take those piss jugs to the dump and visit Ricky's Dad while there? And maybe shoot some Racckins. I don’t speak it but kinda read it and that is where I got the note about a lot of the WJC team getting the flu including OJ (apparently many teams got the bug). For some reason that poster and a few others don’t want kids to be able to get sick - not sure what that was all about. People get the flu - so what?! I still don’t get the fuss about that - it happened, it was reported and I am sure he got over it so not sure why a few here haven’t. cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Evan Bouchard was interviewed yesterday morning on sn650 and had some high praise for OJ. He said he's one of the best dmen he has ever played with. They played together in London for one year. London also tends to spit out talent all the time, so if Bouchard is still available at that spot id be happy if we took him. Plus we need a big French name on the blue line, haven't had one since Bourdon, RIP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said: Evan Bouchard was interviewed yesterday morning on sn650 and had some high praise for OJ. He said he's one of the best dmen he has ever played with. They played together in London for one year. London also tends to spit out talent all the time, so if Bouchard is still available at that spot id be happy if we took him. Plus we need a big French name on the blue line, haven't had one since Bourdon, RIP. They spit out talented forwards and goalies to some extent. Their track record for defenseman is quite poor actually. I would say Dennis wideman is their most decorated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 On May 7, 2018 at 1:23 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said: Sergachev isn’t that bad defensively. He makes mistakes but that’s to be expected when you’re 19 and in the NHL. He’s far from a finished product. The thing about the bolts is they have Girardi and Coburn to take up a ton of the shutdown role. And then they added in McDonagh which leaves zero need for them to count on a rookie in those situations. In the OHL he was used in every situation, a big minute muncher that was counted on to do it all. It’s why he was voted as OHL D man of the year in his first NA season. The kid is gifted and playing sheltered in a rookie season is nothing that should take away from his success, when Juolevi makes the jump I fully expect him to also be sheltered. People act as him being on Tampa is the only reason he was able to put up 40 points but fail to realize that in the last 6 years only him and Hedman are the only two D to crack the 40 point mark. It’s extremely impressive anytime a D cracked 40 points, let alone a 19 year in his first professional season. As he gets older and more confident he will play more and be counted on more in different situations. JB’s motto is earn your spot. He would have easily beat out who we had iced this year. His goal total matched, Pouliot, Gubranson, Hutton, Stecher, Biega and Tanev combined. Our back end was already exposed with us icing pouliot and hutton. It doesn’t help that Tanev and Guddy got hurt but no one would have been able to foresee that. A Sergachev Gudbranson pairing would have been scary good. I think at the time of the draft you are right, he was high risk/reward and not all the time offensive players can translate into the NHL, but TODAY, Sergachev is a proven 40 point player. That’s more than Pouliot has in his career and as you said he’s already 25 year old where Sergachev is only 20. I think OJ will be a solid D in the NHL and I think he will take some time to adjust in a similar career path to Ellis who’s only in the last few years has been starting to show his impact at the NHL level. Pouliot turned 24 in January... Pouliot was in a organization were he never got the chance to develop properly.. In Vancouver he has now been given a new start and has shown a very big improvement in his game.. More time with Green and this trade will look even better...Very good skater with lots of offensive side to show us in this coming season... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCanuck Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 It seems like there are a lot of differences in opinion on Juolevi. You either love him or think he's a bust. So here's a question: Given what we know now would you still pick him at #5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, CaptainCanuck said: It seems like there are a lot of differences in opinion on Juolevi. You either love him or think he's a bust. So here's a question: Given what we know now would you still pick him at #5? I agree that opinions on Juolevi (like most things with this fanbase) are pretty polarized. Just part of the current climate around this team, I suppose. As to your question: I personally wouldn’t have picked him at #5, either on draft day or in a re-draft. That doesn’t mean I think Juolevi at #5 was a bad pick. Not at all. He just wasn’t quite that high on my personal draft list and IMO he’s not the 5th best prospect from his draft class (as of today anyway). I do think Juolevi will be a really good player for us. I’m quite confident in that. And I believe that he’ll prove to be good value where he was drafted (compared to historical results for 5th overall). But there’s definitely a couple guys I’d have taken ahead of him in 2016. And for the most part, I’d probably still prefer to have those guys today. Still, no regrets. And I consider Juolevi to be a good pick for this team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: They spit out talented forwards and goalies to some extent. Their track record for defenseman is quite poor actually. I would say Dennis wideman is their most decorated. John Carlson? He is a point per game in these playoffs. Also Dan Girardi , Del Zotto, Olli Maatta, Victor Mete, Joulevi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Just now, Bure_Pavel said: John Carlson? He is a point per game in these playoffs. Also Dan Girardi , Del Zotto, Olli Maatta, Victor Mete, Joulevi. Many of them were acquired late by london. Carlson played 1 season for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Many of them were acquired late by london. Carlson played 1 season for them. Lately tho, Zadorov, Maatta, Juolevi, Mete, Bouchard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, wildcam said: Pouliot turned 24 in January... Pouliot was in a organization were he never got the chance to develop properly.. In Vancouver he has now been given a new start and has shown a very big improvement in his game.. More time with Green and this trade will look even better...Very good skater with lots of offensive side to show us in this coming season... In Pouliots D+2 season he was brought up with the Pens and given good opportunity. He played 17 min per game, had 56% ozone starts and averaged 2:29 pp minutes per game playing while some of the greatest players in the game. He managed only 7 points in 34 games. Sergachev was brought into a similar situation in his D+2 year and he made the most of its and then some. In his D+3 year Pouliot he was surpassed by Maata, and it was evident that he wasn’t turning into the player they hoped for. As the Penguins were a contending team they also couldn’t take their time and slowly bring him along which is why they took a risk and went out and picked up Justin Schultz, pushing Pouliot even further down the depth. Lots of players have decent skills but it’s a cut throat league. There’s only a limited amount of time before the teams has to move on and give that opportunity to the next player. It’s exactly why JB stated this year Sven and Granny need to prove something, because Lind, Gadj, Dahlen are breathing down there neck. It’s good for Pouliot to get a second chance and I hope he makes the most of it, but at the same time, he’s not someone I’m penciling into our future core. The only player that fits that bill in our system is Juolevi. Pouliot (and technically Hutton) need to make the most of this summer, because if Juolevi comes into camp ready to play, he once again could be getting surpassed on the depth chart sitting on the outside looking in. IF that’s the case I’m not sure he will be getting many more chances in this league. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said: Lately tho, Zadorov, Maatta, Juolevi, Mete, Bouchard Bunch of question marks and 2nd pairing. Not pumping out elite talent or whatever was claimed. Compare that to the forwards they've produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 hours ago, 73 Percent said: They spit out talented forwards and goalies to some extent. Their track record for defenseman is quite poor actually. I would say Dennis wideman is their most decorated. I'd say Carlson is a pretty darn good dman too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: I agree that opinions on Juolevi (like most things with this fanbase) are pretty polarized. Just part of the current climate around this team, I suppose. As to your question: I personally wouldn’t have picked him at #5, either on draft day or in a re-draft. That doesn’t mean I think Juolevi at #5 was a bad pick. Not at all. He just wasn’t quite that high on my personal draft list and IMO he’s not the 5th best prospect from his draft class (as of today anyway). I do think Juolevi will be a really good player for us. I’m quite confident in that. And I believe that he’ll prove to be good value where he was drafted (compared to historical results for 5th overall). But there’s definitely a couple guys I’d have taken ahead of him in 2016. And for the most part, I’d probably still prefer to have those guys today. Still, no regrets. And I consider Juolevi to be a good pick for this team. I'm in the same boat, he wasn't my pick at #5, but I am more than happy with him and think he will be a cornerstone player for the franchise for a long time to come. He's definitley a guy you can build on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, stawns said: I'd say Carlson is a pretty darn good dman too Alright guys let's clear this up for the 3rd time. Carlson wasn't drafted from London. He played all of one season there. He was drafted from the ushl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 37 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Bunch of question marks and 2nd pairing. Not pumping out elite talent or whatever was claimed. Compare that to the forwards they've produced. Benning and group have done a great job drafting in last 4 years... They have only drafted 3 D men in top 90. Juolevi #5 - 2016 Brisebois #66 - 2015 Tryamkin #66 - 2014 Rest of D man drafted by JB were in later rounds... I Think this year there 1st pick will be a D man and maybe another D man in 2nd or 3rd round.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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