2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[Noble 6]

Can someone please tell me why Mittlestadt has been gaining favour despite most of his production coming on the powerplay while Rasmussen is being avoided for the same reason?

[DeNiro]

38 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

Can someone please tell me why Mittlestadt has been gaining favour despite most of his production coming on the powerplay while Rasmussen is being avoided for the same reason?

He had very strong u18's and Ivan Hlinka tournaments plus he's committed to a very good program in the University of Minnesota.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if he had a Dylan Larkin like rise.

Edited April 14, 2017 by DeNiro

[Zhukini]

1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

Can someone please tell me why Mittlestadt has been gaining favour despite most of his production coming on the powerplay while Rasmussen is being avoided for the same reason?

Rasmussen is being avoided because it looks like most of his points are a result of him being a giant playing against boys, and we already drafted that project in Virtanen 

[Phat Fingers]

10 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

Theoretically we'll be drafting fourth, with Canuck luck I'll assume we're drafting 5th unless something changes on Lottery night

 

I know there's a lot of variance depending on the site you're looking at but NHL's rankings have Rasmussen and Glass at 5-6 (All centre's in their top 6).  For someone who hasn't been paying a whole lot of attention, what's the knock on Rasmussen?

I like Rasmussen, but not in the top 5, our range of picks. There are better players, he is going to be a good pick in the mid round if he gets there. Big and mobile, goes to the dirty areas, didn't light the league on fire, not sure if he has top line potential.  I would want a player with more likely upside than the giant in the early round. 

 

EmW

[J-Dizzle]

8 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

You can look at probability that way, and if that's the way you want to look at it, then there's NO team that is "theoretically" going to be picking first or second or third. The alternative way of looking at it is that we have the second highest chance of getting a top 3 pick. In fact, we have the second highest chance of getting the first pick.

I get what you're saying, but odds still say we're drafting fourth.  

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, shiznak said:

I wouldn't say they are ahead of us in their rebuild. They do have an abundance of young talented forwards, but they still need a promising goaltending prospect. Their defensive pool is also bare, with only Chychrun, DeAngelo, and maybe Wood with bright future.

Hence their need for Tanev 

 

Ahead, as in they've been rebuilding longer.

[Scruffy05]

Is there any data or analysis for comparative future success of people who are either old for their draft class (Patrick) or young (Vilardi)?

[Vinny in Vancouver]

48 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

I get what you're saying, but odds still say we're drafting fourth.  

Yes, correct.  But just so that it doesn't get too depressing in a draft where there are only 2 sure-fire studs, one should switch between 2 questions:

• What draft position are the Canucks likely to get? Answer: fourth.
• Who has the second-best chance to get the top pick and who has the second-best (could be top if Colorado gets top pick) chance  to get the second pick? Answer: the Canucks.

[J-Dizzle]

4 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Yes, correct.  But just so that it doesn't get too depressing in a draft where there are only 2 sure-fire studs, one should switch between 2 questions:

• What draft position are the Canucks likely to get? Answer: fourth.
• Who has the second-best chance to get the top pick and who has the second-best (could be top if Colorado gets top pick) chance  to get the second pick? Answer: the Canucks.

I like the glass half full thinking... I'm too pessimistic and don't want to set myself up for the disappointment of falling three spots  

[Scruffy05]

9 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

Can someone please tell me why Mittlestadt has been gaining favour despite most of his production coming on the powerplay while Rasmussen is being avoided for the same reason?

 

7 hours ago, Zhukini said:

Rasmussen is being avoided because it looks like most of his points are a result of him being a giant playing against boys, and we already drafted that project in Virtanen 

And he struggles to score 5 on 5 in a league where that is indicative of future success.

[Beastmode33]

I like Mittlestadt, even as high as 2nd overall.  If you look at his U18 highlights, the kid has some very soft hands, amazing work in traffic, has good wheels, great vision and a quick accurate shot.  He had 7 points for the tournament ahead of Hischier and Patrick and even guys from last years draft class such as Nylander and Jost. 

 

His size is already respectable at 6'1" 200 and his baby face makes me think he could still grow and fill out a bit more.

 

I didnt see much physicality in his game but with his skill it didnt look like he needed to use it to get the puck and win battles.  If he can add that to his game and grow he could be a dominant beast in the nhl.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Beastmode33
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[Camel Toe Drag]

14 minutes ago, Beastmode33 said:

I like Mittlestadt, even as high as 2nd overall.  If you look at his U18 highlights, the kid has some very soft hands, amazing work in traffic, has good wheels, great vision and a quick accurate shot.  He had 7 points for the tournament ahead of Hischier and Patrick and even guys from last years draft class such as Nylander and Jost. 

 

His size is already respectable at 6'1" 200 and his baby face makes me think he could still grow and fill out a bit more.

 

I didnt see much physicality in his game but with his skill it didnt look like he needed to use it to get the puck and win battles.  If he can add that to his game and grow he could be a dominant beast in the nhl.

 

 

Damn, this highlight reel gets posted a lot. 

[Beastmode33]

1 minute ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

Damn, this highlight reel gets posted a lot. 

Hard to compare his points with other players since he played the majority of his season in high school but when he plays against his peers, he dominates.

[Camel Toe Drag]

6 minutes ago, Beastmode33 said:

Hard to compare his points with other players since he played the majority of his season in high school but when he plays against his peers, he dominates.

I have a feeling that when he does play in the big stage (USHL) he knows how to elevate his game because it's important, it matters and it's for his country. He has the better coaches and all that jazz. When he plays in high school, it's high school. Do you guys remember how you were with your buddies in high school. My thinking is he takes his foot off the pedal slightly when he's playing with his highschool team because he's playing with his buddies and doesn't wanna be super try hard, and also because it's a smaller stage and less important to a certain extent. Obviously this is just my own speculation and attempt to justify his amazing USHL number compared to highschool. But I would draft him based on those numbers any day in that 3-5 slot. 

[Noble 6]

14 hours ago, DeNiro said:

He had very strong u18's and Ivan Hlinka tournaments plus he's committed to a very good program in the University of Minnesota.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if he had a Dylan Larkin like rise.

 

At the U18's he was playing with Brown and Yammamoto if I'm not mistaken. The Keller line was also the go-to offensive line. The whole U.S. team was stronger than everyone else. I'm not saying that it wasn't impressive that he was on that team in a top-6  position despite being a year younger than some guys, but I don't think that alone should be a big reason for picking him high up in the draft. 

[Noble 6]

12 hours ago, Zhukini said:

Rasmussen is being avoided because it looks like most of his points are a result of him being a giant playing against boys, and we already drafted that project in Virtanen 

 

Follow up quesiton: If Rasmussen is being avoided for being physically stronger than everyone else at the same age, couldn't a similar argument be made for Mittlestadt being more skilled than everyone at the same age?

 

Essentially, why is there a belief that all the high-skilled moves and backhand toe drags that Mittlestadt uses against juniors will translate to the NHL while the possibility that Rasmussen could be a physical force in the NHL is overlooked?

 

5 hours ago, Scruffy05 said:

 

And he struggles to score 5 on 5 in a league where that is indicative of future success.

 

Wouldn't struggling to score at 5v5 in the CHL be the same thing as struggling to score at 5v5 in the USHL? Especially given that the USHL is probably, at best, equal to the CHL?

 

I'm not advocating for Rasmussen, just trying to get a clearer picture on the thoughts on Mittlestadt. 

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

Essentially, why is there a belief that all the high-skilled moves and backhand toe drags that Mittlestadt uses against juniors will translate to the NHL while the possibility that Rasmussen could be a physical force in the NHL is overlooked?

 

Wouldn't struggling to score at 5v5 in the CHL be the same thing as struggling to score at 5v5 in the USHL? Especially given that the USHL is probably, at best, equal to the CHL?

 

Rasmussen won't be able to physically dominate as much in the NHL because a lot more NHL'ers are the same size. Elite offensive skill, creativity etc generally translates better as players adapt to higher levels and have other, higher skilled players to play with, learn from etc. 

 

USHL scoring league wide is generally more biased towards PP production if I recall.

Edited April 14, 2017 by J.R.

[messier's_elbow]

6 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

I get what you're saying, but odds still say we're drafting fourth.  

4th is fine. We would get Vilardi or Mittelstadt. I'm worried about dropping to 5th....

[Noble 6]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

Rasmussen won't be able to physically dominate as much in the NHL because a lot more NHL'ers are the same size. Elite offensive skill, creativity etc generally translates better as players adapt to higher levels and has other, higher skilled players to play with, learn from etc. 

 

USHL scoring league wide is generally more biased towards PP production if I recall.

 

I would argue that defensemen are a lot more capable mentally in the NHL as well as physically. These are the guys that deal with Kane + Panarin, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Gaudreau, Kuznetsov, etc. on a nightly basis. Those guys are probably all on a different level than Mittlestadt. Given that these guys can be shut down effectively (at least for a while) and they are more talented in that specific field than Mittlestadt, I would think Mittlestadt's skillset wouldn't be anything new for them. If Mittlestadt was a 1st overall pick level talent or even a top 3 level talent I would be a lot more comfortable with having his skill translate obviously,  but he seems like a high risk, high reward pick. 

 

Just think of all the high IQ defensemen there are now. Kieth, Josi, Hedman, Karlsson, Burns, Seabrook, Weber, OEL, McDonough, Letang, Doughty, Pietrangelo, etc. Obviously none of them are immune to mistakes or brain farts, but they can see through most people's intentions very well most of the time. I don't think Mittlestadt's offensive abilities will translate to the point where he has a lot of standard top-4 guys reaching in and making mistakes. 

 

Obviously if he is able to adapt to the higher capabilities of defensemen then he will be dynamite offensively. I just don't think I'm as convinced as some other people seem to be. 

 

The point about the USHL being more of a powerplay league is looking right. 

[HomeBrew]

1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Follow up quesiton: If Rasmussen is being avoided for being physically stronger than everyone else at the same age, couldn't a similar argument be made for Mittlestadt being more skilled than everyone at the same age?

 

Essentially, why is there a belief that all the high-skilled moves and backhand toe drags that Mittlestadt uses against juniors will translate to the NHL while the possibility that Rasmussen could be a physical force in the NHL is overlooked?

 

 

Wouldn't struggling to score at 5v5 in the CHL be the same thing as struggling to score at 5v5 in the USHL? Especially given that the USHL is probably, at best, equal to the CHL?

 

I'm not advocating for Rasmussen, just trying to get a clearer picture on the thoughts on Mittlestadt. 

Other than the powerplay vs 5v5 argument you keep bringing up over and over and over... what are your actual hesitations with Mittelstadt? 

 

btw some people do have Mittelstadt ranked in the top 3 - thus being a top 3 level talent?