2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[ForsbergTheGreat]

25 minutes ago, J.R. said:

While that's a nice way to cherry pick players to suit your argument, no, that's not my only criteria.

 

I'm also considering the type of team we've built at present. We have a lot of solid, 2 way players and some high skilled wingers. We lack a high end, offensive C. Given that I think those players are all in the same tier, my money is on the Canucks picking one of the higher offensive ceiling guys.

 

Again, that doesn't mean I think they're 'better' or 'more likely to translate to the NHL'. It doesn't mean I think that's the order they'll actually get drafted, I'm not doing a mock. It means I put them roughly on par but with skill sets that more closely resemble what the Canucks need/want.

The biggest issue is you kept stating highest ceiling when what you really meant was offensive ceiling. 

 

Personally I think canucks are fine with high end skill between Boeser, Sven, Dahlen and Goldy.  It's not like Vilardi s lacking offensive skill (like a Gaunce type) the kid is loaded with skill, just not the flashy type.  I don't even know if you can really say he's a pure 2 way forward, he's just smart without the puck..  Again very Barkov like.  I think what Canucks lack upfront is strength and size, Horvat and fingers crossed with Jake is all we have in the future top 6 to provides some push back.  . 

 

I would much rather take a high risk/pure skilled player with our two second round picks than miss the opportunity to take a core piece like Vilardi. With our 33rd overall we can go after. Lodnia, Yamamoto, Anderson-Dolan, or Shaw

Edited April 18, 2017 by ForsbergTheGreat

[funkyfresh]

2 hours ago, Blömqvist said:

 

 

Miro Heiskanen stats:

10 points (5+5) in 37 Liiga regular season games *note* Liiga is the top Finnish men's league, where he regularly plays over 20 minutes/game as a 17 year old

3 points (0+3) in 8 Liiga playoff games

3 points (0+3) in 6 Champions Hockey League games *note* Champions Hockey League is a tournament featuring the top teams across Europe

8 points (1+7) in 4 U18 games

 

@funkyfresh I wasn't so sure if he was going to be the top dman this draft because I didn't really know of his offensive ceiling. IMO he's now pushing for the best defenseman of the draft. Scouts were wanting him to develop his offensive game further and he puts up 8 points in 4 U18 games. With a very late birthday (July 18) it's plausible that he has very good draft+1 year compared to other prospects with earlier birthdays. The fact that he plays in the Liiga is good as he can come over to play in the AHL as soon as next season, I believe.

 

I was hoping we could pick up a mid-1st and draft him, but with his recent U18 play has his stock risen high enough to make the top 10? Does he get picked over Liljegren and Makar?

Liljegren has stagnated this year and needs work defensively. He doesn't understand that sometimes it's okay if you aren't the one creating offense. Still, can't be too harsh on him because of the mono. 

 

Makar reminds me of Allen Iverson in terms of explosiveness, agility and just sheer confidence with the puck (or ball in this case); you know he's going to make something good happen out there. The problem is his size and if he'll be able to defend at the NHL level.

 

Also, there aren't many guys that play like Makar and Liljegren and succeed in the NHL. 

 

I rather take the guy who is already good defensively, has decent size, and can produce offense, even if it is not as much as the other two. I wouldn't even be upset if Canucks drafted him instead of a center as he is in the same group as those guys, for me. He plays the right side in Liiga so him and Juolevi could be a solid pairing in the future. 

 

My ranking of the top dman right now:

1. Miro Hieskanen
2. Jusso Valimaki
3. Cale Makar
4. Timothy Liljegren

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, funkyfresh said:

Liljegren has stagnated this year and needs work defensively. He doesn't understand that sometimes it's okay if you aren't the one creating offense. Still, can't be too harsh on him because of the mono. 

 

Makar reminds me of Allen Iverson in terms of explosiveness, agility and just sheer confidence with the puck (or ball in this case); you know he's going to make something good happen out there. The problem is his size and if he'll be able to defend at the NHL level.

 

Also, there aren't many guys that play like Makar and Liljegren and succeed in the NHL. 

 

I rather take the guy who is already good defensively, has decent size, and can produce offense, even if it is not as much as the other two. I wouldn't even be upset if Canucks drafted him instead of a center as he is in the same group as those guys, for me. He plays the right side in Liiga so him and Juolevi could be a solid pairing in the future. 

 

My ranking of the top dman right now:

1. Miro Hieskanen
2. Jusso Valimaki
3. Cale Makar
4. Timothy Liljegren

You don't even have cal foote in there?

[HKSR]

We need a home run pick... an injection of ELITE top-end talent into this lineup.  There's some nice high-end skill like ForsbergTheGreat says, but I still think we're missing that one player that sits in the Top 15 or Top 20 of all scorers in the league.  Without that player, we'd be in tough to win a Cup with this new core.  Look back at the last 10+ years (going back, but not as far as the Trap era of the Devils), and you'll see at least 1 player from the Cup winning team in the Top 15 in scoring (except Boston.. which rubs more salt into a wound that hasn't quite closed yet).

 

When we made it to the Finals, we had Henrik and Daniel.  We need ONE of those types of players if we expect to get anywhere.  Not sure if this draft has that player, but maybe Hischier or Patrick could be the one.  I just don't see anybody in our current lineup that has that kinda offensive ceiling.

[Camel Toe Drag]

22 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The biggest issue is you kept stating highest ceiling when what you really meant was offensive ceiling. 

 

Personally I think canucks are fine with high end skill between Boeser, Sven, Dahlen and Goldy.  It's not like Vilardi s lacking offensive skill (like a Gaunce type) the kid is loaded with skill, just not the flashy type.  I don't even know if you can really say he's a pure 2 way forward, he's just smart without the puck..  Again very Barkov like.  I think what Canucks lack upfront is strength and size, Horvat and fingers crossed with Jake is all we have in the future top 6 to provides some push back.  . 

 

I would much rather take a high risk/pure skilled player with our two second round picks than miss the opportunity to take a core piece like Vilardi. With our 33rd overall we can go after. Lodnia, Yamamoto, Anderson-Dolan, or Shaw

Do you believe Yamamoto will be there at 33rd? I have a hard time believing that. But this would be the year where nothing would surprise me. 

[Ossi Vaananen]

 

That's my guy. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

17 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

Do you believe Yamamoto will be there at 33rd? I have a hard time believing that. But this would be the year where nothing would surprise me. 

I've seen him anywhere from as high of 20th to as low as 40th,  this year is really hard to get a grasp on players, he'd be my first pick for the 33rd option if he is still there.

[aGENT]

54 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The biggest issue is you kept stating highest ceiling when what you really meant was offensive ceiling. 

Sorry if that wasn't clearer....

 

33 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We need a home run pick... an injection of ELITE top-end talent into this lineup.  There's some nice high-end skill like ForsbergTheGreat says, but I still think we're missing that one player that sits in the Top 15 or Top 20 of all scorers in the league.  Without that player, we'd be in tough to win a Cup with this new core.  Look back at the last 10+ years (going back, but not as far as the Trap era of the Devils), and you'll see at least 1 player from the Cup winning team in the Top 15 in scoring (except Boston.. which rubs more salt into a wound that hasn't quite closed yet).

 

When we made it to the Finals, we had Henrik and Daniel.  We need ONE of those types of players if we expect to get anywhere.  Not sure if this draft has that player, but maybe Hischier or Patrick could be the one.  I just don't see anybody in our current lineup that has that kinda offensive ceiling.

I agree, that's what the Canucks are looking for if we drop to the 2nd tier of players in the draft (3-10).

[Camel Toe Drag]

20 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I've seen him anywhere from as high of 20th to as low as 40th,  this year is really hard to get a grasp on players, he'd be my first pick for the 33rd option if he is still there.

I'd take him in a heart beat. 

[HKSR]

26 minutes ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

 

That's my guy. 

If we're not in the Top 2, then yes, I think I'd agree with you.  You can tell this guy oozes offensive talent.  It's not everyday that a player comes along that makes offensive plays look easy.  This guy makes it look really, really easy.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

I'd take him in a heart beat. 

At 33rd overall there is going to be a really good player available.  I think someone is going to drop and it will allow us to reap the rewards, at least one of: Popugayev, Yamamoto, Lodnia, Ratcliffe, Bowers Anderson-Dolan, or Thomas should be available at 33.

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If we're not in the Top 2, then yes, I think I'd agree with you.  You can tell this guy oozes offensive talent.  It's not everyday that a player comes along that makes offensive plays look easy.  This guy makes it look really, really easy.

yeah, but is he going to pull a Vessey? 

lmao. Canuck Nation was really nervous last year if Brock would sign or bolt for the Wild. That's always the risk with collegiate players, isn't it? 

Would Middlestadt sign with the Canucks, or would he go and expose that NCAA loophole and sign with the Wild when he can? 

Is this kid a character kid that oozes uber offensive talent? 

 

[Camel Toe Drag]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

At 33rd overall there is going to be a really good player available.  I think someone is going to drop and it will allow us to reap the rewards, at least one of: Popugayev, Yamamoto, Lodnia, Ratcliffe, Bowers Anderson-Dolan, or Thomas should be available at 33.

Oh no doubt. Early round 2 there is always a few beauties who drop. I'd even be happy with Hague if he's there. 

[Shcott]

10 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

yeah, but is he going to pull a Vessey? 

lmao. Canuck Nation was really nervous last year if Brock would sign or bolt for the Wild. That's always the risk with collegiate players, isn't it? 

Would Middlestadt sign with the Canucks, or would he go and expose that NCAA loophole and sign with the Wild when he can? 

Is this kid a character kid that oozes uber offensive talent? 

 

I don't feel like he would bolt. Doesn't he have to spend 4 years in the NCAA to get to free agency? The only first rounder I can think of that bolted was Blake Wheeler. I think getting into the NHL and making the money in a year or twos time would be pretty enticing 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Shcott

[ForsbergTheGreat]

53 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We need a home run pick... an injection of ELITE top-end talent into this lineup.  There's some nice high-end skill like ForsbergTheGreat says, but I still think we're missing that one player that sits in the Top 15 or Top 20 of all scorers in the league.  Without that player, we'd be in tough to win a Cup with this new core.  Look back at the last 10+ years (going back, but not as far as the Trap era of the Devils), and you'll see at least 1 player from the Cup winning team in the Top 15 in scoring (except Boston.. which rubs more salt into a wound that hasn't quite closed yet).

 

When we made it to the Finals, we had Henrik and Daniel.  We need ONE of those types of players if we expect to get anywhere.  Not sure if this draft has that player, but maybe Hischier or Patrick could be the one.  I just don't see anybody in our current lineup that has that kinda offensive ceiling.

2012 LA kings didn't have anyone in the top 15.

Neither did the 2014 Kings team.  Both years Kopitar finished 17th in the league with 76 and 70 points, In fact Kopitar has only surpassed 80 points once in his career.  Similar point projections to where I think Vilardi would end up.  

 

The 2015 Hawks also didn't have anyone in the top 15 in scoring.  Kane was 29th that year (yes he did get injured)

 

Outside of Hischier and Patrick, I don't see any of the other players being able to crack top 15 any time soon.  None of them are even close to the skill sets of, Laine, Scheifele, Matthews, Puljujarvi, Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl, Tarasenko, Seguin, Benn, Hall, Kucherov, Marner, Strome. Drouin, Mackinnon, Panarin, Ehlers, Nylander.

 

That top 15 list is going to be very hard to crack, and that's ignoring the current Crosby, Backstrom, Karlsson, Kane, Ovechkin, and Malkin's.

 

I'd say we wait till next year to get that skill guy and do everything we can to get Andrei Svechnikov, he's going to be the next closest bet. 

 

 

 

 

[Sugar baby watermelon]

Middlestadt or Glass please Benning 

[The Lock]

I'm honestly all for whatever Benning decides. Call me a homer if you'd like, but I'm actually more interested in who he picks in the later rounds just because of how well our later round picks have been performing the past couple of years. I'm waiting for a bunch of people to be like "who?" and then a year down the road going "Zomg! This kid's dope!"

[R35Godz1lla]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

At 33rd overall there is going to be a really good player available.  I think someone is going to drop and it will allow us to reap the rewards, at least one of: Popugayev, Yamamoto, Lodnia, Ratcliffe, Bowers Anderson-Dolan, or Thomas should be available at 33.

 

Benning has the potential this year with that early second to snag a boser'esque player ( as in a player better than his draft position ) he will need to find some steals in the next 2 years if he wants to prove he is the right GM for the rebuild.

 

42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Outside of Hischier and Patrick, I don't see any of the other players being able to crack top 15 any time soon.  None of them are even close to the skill sets of, Laine, Scheifele, Matthews, Puljujarvi, Eichel, McDavid, Draisaitl, Tarasenko, Seguin, Benn, Hall, Kucherov, Marner, Strome. Drouin, Mackinnon, Panarin, Ehlers, Nylander.

 

That top 15 list is going to be very hard to crack, and that's ignoring the current Crosby, Backstrom, Karlsson, Kane, Ovechkin, and Malkin's.

 

I'd say we wait till next year to get that skill guy and do everything we can to get Andrei Svechnikov, he's going to be the next closest bet. 

You mention Kucherov and Drouin in your post, couple thoughts on those 2 players and ones like them.

 

I think it's important to note that ( Yes I know, Drouin has always been highly touted for his potential, therefore the #3 draft slot ) that before this year Drouin was all but a bust. Well we have our very own high pick all but a bust prospect ( for different reasons I know ) who may yet turn things around, Virtanen.

I am by no means trying to infer that Virtanen well ever be top 15 in scoring, just that you never know when a prospect will start putting it together and be an important member of a team.

 

As far Kucherov goes, yes he has been producing fantastic numbers since year 2 of his NHL Career, but I don't think anyone predicted this years production at the end of his first year in the NHL. Also, Kucherov was drafted #58, yes there is the Russian factor, but even bump him up 15'ish spots he is still picked around #40-45, giving me hope that Benning may yet find our very own Kucherov.

 

Even Tarasenko dropped to #16 ( Again, Russian Factor ) but lets say he should have gone at least 5-10, I think it shows that there is talent often at spots one might not expect it to be.

 

This years draft has the potential, even morose than other years due to fact that scouts have no clean 1-15 list this year, whereas in past years things where allot more cut and dry ( as much as drafting can ever be cut and dry ) to produce some very big surprises.

Edited April 18, 2017 by R35Godz1lla

[Gaudette Celly]

12 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I'm honestly all for whatever Benning decides. Call me a homer if you'd like, but I'm actually more interested in who he picks in the later rounds just because of how well our later round picks have been performing the past couple of years. I'm waiting for a bunch of people to be like "who?" and then a year down the road going "Zomg! This kid's dope!"

"2015 2017 -- worst Canucks draft ever"
- Dave Pratt

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said:

"2015 2017 -- worst Canucks draft ever"
- Dave Pratt

Pratt is an idiot. 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by N4ZZY