RWMc1 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 25 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said: I still listed 3 recent cup winners that have rebuilt through "tanking". Name me the last team that has won a championship through "retooling" on the fly. Are we trying to win a championship here or make the playoffs year after year? Could you provide some kind of evidence or at least some examples as to how these teams "tanked". Getting the top picks is not automatically from tanking. Usually it's from bad managing, bad luck, and/or just sucking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Media has dropped the ball thinking the Canucks need to tank to rebuild. The media has also totally overlooked the Canucks bringing Rodin the top scorer in the SEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 If any of you listen to NHL Sirius satellite channel u would have herd my call a couple days ago. I pretty much ripped into the casters saying they haven't done their homework on the Canucks and have spent zero time actually analyzing what we have done. They spend very little time on actually taking about what the team has done and make blanket statements like " Canucks are treading water. I pointed out the only guy they have added that's a vet is a 35 goal scorer. They didn't seem to actually have a clue on the details of what we have done. i literally said " what , are we chopped liver here in van. If u are going to make comments on a team maybe u should actually do some research". They cut me off and said , will all do respect , we have spent time taking about the errikson signing. Funny thing is , I was addressing the fact they said "nobody knows what van doing.They are clueless. It's like they actually just repeated what everyone else said and didn't actually look at the ages of any of the other guys we have added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam126 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Toews said: How many of those teams like the Panthers, Jackets, Islanders etc were cap floor teams. They had no recourse but to tank, they couldn't go out and get players as they didn't have the money to. The Panthers are just now starting to spend to the cap. The Islanders are slowly getting there. Budget is a big reason why these teams still struggle. How many teams have won a Cup while not spending to the cap? Ah, there you go. The cap is a big reason why teams win the cup. It's based on the players around the stars, the Shaws, the Boninos, the Williams. They are the ones that win you the cup, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 the eastern bias media used to bother me ,now i couldn't care less, even when the canucks start to gain traction there's still not going to be proper recognition ,so i'm not going to let it bother me. the best form of revenge is your own success.!!!! i've posted this before and i'll do it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putgolzin Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Canuck_in_AB said: Might want to keep in mind we no longer have McCann.. But yes, he will have an NHL career. Yes he will. Instead, in his place we have Gudbranson, so JB gets credit for turning his own draft pick into a different key piece. As a result, our D that Benning can take credit for are: Juolevi Gudranson Brisebois Tryamkin Not bad! and because I'm a homer I'll even credit him with Hutton, because nobody else would have had the balls to let him play last year, thus fast-forwarding his professional development to where it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Jam126 said: I like how you think that they tanked properly. No, their management was so incompetent that they sucked so bad to get those top picks. Plus, Pens got lucky with Crosby. Oh, and to the argument "Tanking wins cups" here are the Stanley cup winners who didn't tank: Boston ...........Number 1 in 97 (They did kind of through him away in 2005), Number 5 in 2006 (Kessel) traded Detroit X4........ as previously mentioned the Russian 5, plus an enormous payroll, Number 4 (Yzerman) Anaheim.......Neidermeyer - Free agent, Traded for Selanne (Tevordovski) traded for Pronger. If Jim can make deals like that we will win a Cup New Jersey.........Remember when NJ tanked for so long Wayne called them a joke franchise. number 2 (Shanahan) in `87 traded for number 5, Scott Stevens and number 3 (Neidermeyer)in 91 Tampa Bay......... Vinny number 1 So, I`ll give you Boston (even though they have tanked , that is not why they won) and Anahiem but Tampa and NJ have definitely tanked and Detroit spent so much money (along with Colorado, NYR and StL) the NHL started the salery cap era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam126 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, lmm said: So, I`ll give you Boston (even though they have tanked , that is not why they won) and Anahiem but Tampa and NJ have definitely tanked and Detroit spent so much money (along with Colorado, NYR and StL) the NHL started the salery cap era But they all had, including the "tanking" teams a supporting cast that led them to the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, GoBoGo53 said: Boston. One team, one cup. Chicago 3 cups through tanking, LA 2 cups through tanking, Pittsburgh 2 cups through tanking. Once again, you can't just tank, you need to do it properly. Those 4 teams you listed have not done it properly. You need to insulate your young players with great veteran players. Those 4 teams have all had terrible management (apart from Florida recently, they look like they are turning it around). Good management+couple of elite players at draft positions 1 and 2 makes it so much easier to win a cup than retooling on the fly. LA never intentionally tanked. They got Doughty after a season as we just had. Only they lost the most man games to injury in the league that year if I recall correctly. They had a few injury riddled seasons. Injuries and a few shrewd trades is not the same as tanking. Doughty was their only top five pick when they won the cup. LA is an example of smart drafting, shrewd trading, and signing UFA's to win the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Spector Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, 'NucK™ said: well from 94-'09, they made the finals 6 times, won the cup 4 of those times, and haven't missed the playoffs in my lifetime ('91). so I guess that is why I personally would cite them as a model lol.. and also this is pretty much EXACTLY what benning (well mostly ownership actually) is trying to do and what the OP just described.. Please don't let the FACTS get in the way of Aircool's "cool" story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Spector Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Aircool said: Why do people cite Detroit as anything worthy of celebration... I'll never understand. Such a horrible example. Detroit a horrible example? This is the most laughable post I've ever read on this forum, and I've read some beauties... If the Canucks had 10% of Detroit's success over the last 25 years I could die a happy man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyking Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 21 minutes ago, Baggins said: LA never intentionally tanked. They got Doughty after a season as we just had. Only they lost the most man games to injury in the league that year if I recall correctly. They had a few injury riddled seasons. Injuries and a few shrewd trades is not the same as tanking. Doughty was their only top five pick when they won the cup. LA is an example of smart drafting, shrewd trading, and signing UFA's to win the cup. Yeah and they had only two top 10 picks during there supposed rebuild and one that is currently on there roster. By that definition we've been tanking we have 3 top 10 picks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehdee Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Well this is a bit of a conspiracy theory. But someone on here posted awhile ago a basic breakdown of the Leafs ownership. It basically comes down to the fact that the majority share holders of the Maple Leafs are the same companies that are the majority share holders of Sportsnet and TSN. So when you think about the fact that the Leafs fully endorsed the tank last season, and the Canucks are attempting a different style of rebuild. It almost makes perfect sense why the media seems to take every chance they get to throw a little dirt on the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelar Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said: How can you explain the success of recent cup winners? Penguins: Malkin (2), Fleury (1), Crosby (1)- They stunk for a while. Blackhawks- Toews (3), Kane (1)-They were garbage for a very long time as well. LA Doughty (2)-Stunk for a very long time. Very long time. Not a cup winner but look at Tampa right now. Stamkos (1), Hedman (2). All built through "tanking" and taking elite players at the top end of the draft. Edmonton is a terrible counter point because they are an anomaly in terms of how to rebuild. How about Carolina, Columbus, Buffalo and Arizona. Group them in with Edmonton on how sucking doesn't help you rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Spector Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said: I still listed 3 recent cup winners that have rebuilt through "tanking". Name me the last team that has won a championship through "retooling" on the fly. Are we trying to win a championship here or make the playoffs year after year? Pittsburgh did not tank to select Crosby. As a matter of fact there was no season that year. They won a lottery. Chicago finished 5th last when they selected Kane. They also won the lottery. They didn't tank either. Cool story to suggest these teams "tanked" to win a Cup but the FACTS state otherwise. These teams were just bad for years, or even decades. You have zero proof that they actually "tanked" on purpose to get a high draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Nirvanagut Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: Then ad his top pick in the 2015 draft. Brock is as blue chip as they come, and we snagged him at 23. WTF! Boeser is a guy I wouldn't pass over to take Tkachuk in this draft. That's excellent. Zhuke and Brisebois look to have potential, but they will take at least 3 years. Now this draft with Juolevi, maybe some others pan out, but including Boeser, Trymakin, Demko, McCann and Virtannen, that's a starting line up in 3 years. 6 bonified NHL players coming up through our system, with 2-3 more potential wild cards. It's probably not a great thing that you went into the '16 draft results and immediately referenced all of the previous year picks. Yeah. It's a really good start. The Canucks are middling right now. Accept it. There is no breakthrough that is bound to occur in the next year or three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehdee Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 27 minutes ago, Baggins said: LA never intentionally tanked. They got Doughty after a season as we just had. Only they lost the most man games to injury in the league that year if I recall correctly. They had a few injury riddled seasons. Injuries and a few shrewd trades is not the same as tanking. Doughty was their only top five pick when they won the cup. LA is an example of smart drafting, shrewd trading, and signing UFA's to win the cup. Not disagreeing at all, but Kopitar is a stud and a steal for an 11th overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Spector Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Fred65 said: Detroit did it on the backs of the Russian 5 veteran players, plus 2 lucky late picks in the draft. Since then times have been a lot tougher for the Wings. They never developed the backbone of the team ie the Russians they came already made. Now that Dtsyuk is gone they'll only have Zettersburg from that era and then that's it. Then ..... then ....start to judge Holland Nick Lidstrom is Swedish. Steve Yzerman is Canadian. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, ehdee said: Not disagreeing at all, but Kopitar is a stud and a steal for an 11th overall. Haven't you heard, you have to be in the bottom 3 to get good players. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said: Boston. One team, one cup. Chicago 3 cups through tanking, LA 2 cups through tanking, Pittsburgh 2 cups through tanking. Once again, you can't just tank, you need to do it properly. Those 4 teams you listed have not done it properly. You need to insulate your young players with great veteran players. Those 4 teams have all had terrible management (apart from Florida recently, they look like they are turning it around). Good management+couple of elite players at draft positions 1 and 2 makes it so much easier to win a cup than retooling on the fly. Who did Chicago have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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