DownUndaCanuck Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Now I've always been an advocate for leaving the Sedins together their entire career and we've seen them feed off each other and turn average players into 20-30 goal scorers in the past with their fantastic passing and playmaking abilities, but this season is getting away from us. The players are different. The forwards are different, and the style of play is different. Benning has gone out and really gotten a lot of Benning-type players. That is, hard playing north-south type forwards who can play well defensively. That's fantastic. Look at guys like Virtanen, Boeser, Sutter, Horvat and even Etem at the time. All of these guys play one direction and that's towards the net. They don't play laterally, they aren't great playmakers or have very high hockey IQ when it comes to playmaking and passing but are fantastic and driving hard to the net, shooting hard and scoring. Every team needs these sorts of players but like any good line in the NHL, you need that perfect balance of good defensive ability (usually from the center), a good sniper, a good net front presence or grinder and of course, a playmaker. Sure, there are some players who can do a bit of both, but the majority can be slotted into a specific niche. On our current Canucks roster we are certainly overloaded with grinders and north-south snipers, and really lack playmakers. Snipers playing with snipers and grinders simply aren't going to score goals. Grinders playing with grinders certainly aren't, and playmakers playing with playmakers is going to just lead to a lot of passing. Funnily enough, that explains how we've been watching the Canucks get shutout lately. The top line pass the puck around with no one to fire the trigger, the middle 2 lines just play straight-line hockey with one shot/chance and out, and the 4th line are just grinders anyway. Lets look at where all of our forwards fill into those roles with our current lineup: Sedin (playmaker) - Sedin (playmaker) - Hansen (grinder) Granlund (playmaker/shooter) - Sutter (shooter) - Eriksson (shooter) Baertschi (playmaker/sniper) - Horvat (shooter/grinder) - Virtanen (shooter/grinder) Dorsett (grinder) - Gaunce (grinder) - Burrows (grinder) Pretty obvious when you break it down. We need to try and get a playmaker, shooter and grinder on each line, not just lump all the similar types of players together, because it's simply not working right now. Granlund and Baertschi definately posses some playmaking ability and clever offensive hockey IQ, as does Horvat and Sutter to an extent, but when they have the puck they're not thinking about making passes or plays but rather shooting which is the big difference. Our best playmakers are obviously the Sedins and have been for some time, since 2012 Daniel has been more of a passer than ever before which leaves us with two great playmakers being wasted on the top line when they should be on each line to help out the shooters and grinders. I propose we break them up this season purely because of how many north-south players we have on this team, with the Sedins and to an extent Baertschi being the only other lateral-type players. Sutter (shooter) - Henrik Sedin (playmaker) - Hansen (grinder) Daniel Sedin (playmaker) - Horvat (shooter/grinder) - Eriksson (shooter) Baertschi (playmaker/shooter) - Granlund (playmaker/shooter) - Dorsett (grinder) Burrows (grinder) - Gaunce (grinder) - Virtanen (shooter/grinder) That sort of a lineup gives us far more balance. Can swap Dorsett and Virtanen depending on performance, but the main concept is to keep a playmaker on each line with a shooter and have a grinder on the same line too. It's a simple recipe that's been followed throughout the ages in hockey and has lead to some fantastic lines with tremendous success. We've seen our stupid way of constructing our lines end up leading nowhere, it's time to balance them out and that does mean splitting up the twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effigy Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Good old EA Sports player types Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Doesn't HAVE to be these combos, but I agree, time to split them, about 75% of the time. Defensively, 2 slow fwds on 1 line is suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I'm willing to give it a try, and I like your suggested lines. The league has had over 15 years to develop a book on the Sedins as linemates, and they aren't surprising anyone anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 They did this with success on some of those OT games. Sedins have lost a big step in their skating, they can be a liability off the rush since they cant skate back. Sedin had a breakaway vs the Habs but was caught by the time he reached the red line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 WD tried a few times earlier during the 4-0 start... kinda worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 8 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Doesn't HAVE to be these combos, but I agree, time to split them, about 75% of the time. Defensively, 2 slow fwds on 1 line is suicide. This is another good point. Defensively they've always been rubbish but now that they're slowing down they're even worse defensively, and 1 good forward isn't good enough to save them. Put Daniel with a decent defensive center in Horvat and Henrik with a great defensive forward in Sutter to help plug up their stupid mistakes. Sutter and Henrik, and Horvat with Daniel, gives us two fantastic playmaker-sniper duos that can play defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysACanuckFan Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I agree that lineup does give us more balance. It's worth a shot, give it a try see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, apollo said: WD tried a few times earlier during the 4-0 start... kinda worked... Pretty sure he 'split' them up for 1 or 2 shifts when Baertschi got on for Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just now, DownUndaCanuck said: This is another good point. Defensively they've always been rubbish but now that they're slowing down they're even worse defensively, and 1 good forward isn't good enough to save them. Put Daniel with a decent defensive center in Horvat and Henrik with a great defensive forward in Sutter to help plug up their stupid mistakes. Sutter and Henrik, and Horvat with Daniel, gives us two fantastic playmaker-sniper duos that can play defence. For all their character-quality, & how loved they are in BC, 14 mill(in the cap era) wrapped up in defensive-liability, is a travesty. If they CAN'T hold up their end of the bargain(seperately) as 7 million $ vets, expose ONE of them next June. WHY would LV claim a 7 mill vet, that ain't cuttin' the mustard? Love'em.. should the org?..Yeah sure! But that doesn't cancel out what's pragmatic. To show org-respect, offer them lifetime-gigs(like Gradin, for example). But on-ice there's no free ride(ol'time's sake). They've GOT to cut the mustard, at that cap % that's committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I can only take one thread putting the Twins on different lines to start the season... (even one is too many) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeekz37 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 They have been split for random games over the years with minimal success at times. Who knows? Maybe this year will work out better with them apart? I see your point, and I can see how it will work. Just gotta talk WD into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dank.sinatra Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Why do so many people fail to correctly spell definitely? Also, I see you're a fan of ea sports. Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I can't count the number of times there's been a thread on this over the last decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strombone Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Now I've always been an advocate for leaving the Sedins together their entire career and we've seen them feed off each other and turn average players into 20-30 goal scorers in the past with their fantastic passing and playmaking abilities, but this season is getting away from us. The players are different. The forwards are different, and the style of play is different. Benning has gone out and really gotten a lot of Benning-type players. That is, hard playing north-south type forwards who can play well defensively. That's fantastic. Look at guys like Virtanen, Boeser, Sutter, Horvat and even Etem at the time. All of these guys play one direction and that's towards the net. They don't play laterally, they aren't great playmakers or have very high hockey IQ when it comes to playmaking and passing but are fantastic and driving hard to the net, shooting hard and scoring. Every team needs these sorts of players but like any good line in the NHL, you need that perfect balance of good defensive ability (usually from the center), a good sniper, a good net front presence or grinder and of course, a playmaker. Sure, there are some players who can do a bit of both, but the majority can be slotted into a specific niche. On our current Canucks roster we are certainly overloaded with grinders and north-south snipers, and really lack playmakers. Snipers playing with snipers and grinders simply aren't going to score goals. Grinders playing with grinders certainly aren't, and playmakers playing with playmakers is going to just lead to a lot of passing. Funnily enough, that explains how we've been watching the Canucks get shutout lately. The top line pass the puck around with no one to fire the trigger, the middle 2 lines just play straight-line hockey with one shot/chance and out, and the 4th line are just grinders anyway. Lets look at where all of our forwards fill into those roles with our current lineup: Sedin (playmaker) - Sedin (playmaker) - Hansen (grinder) Granlund (playmaker/shooter) - Sutter (shooter) - Eriksson (shooter) Baertschi (playmaker/sniper) - Horvat (shooter/grinder) - Virtanen (shooter/grinder) Dorsett (grinder) - Gaunce (grinder) - Burrows (grinder) Pretty obvious when you break it down. We need to try and get a playmaker, shooter and grinder on each line, not just lump all the similar types of players together, because it's simply not working right now. Granlund and Baertschi definately posses some playmaking ability and clever offensive hockey IQ, as does Horvat and Sutter to an extent, but when they have the puck they're not thinking about making passes or plays but rather shooting which is the big difference. Our best playmakers are obviously the Sedins and have been for some time, since 2012 Daniel has been more of a passer than ever before which leaves us with two great playmakers being wasted on the top line when they should be on each line to help out the shooters and grinders. I propose we break them up this season purely because of how many north-south players we have on this team, with the Sedins and to an extent Baertschi being the only other lateral-type players. Sutter (shooter) - Henrik Sedin (playmaker) - Hansen (grinder) Daniel Sedin (playmaker) - Horvat (shooter/grinder) - Eriksson (shooter) Baertschi (playmaker/shooter) - Granlund (playmaker/shooter) - Dorsett (grinder) Burrows (grinder) - Gaunce (grinder) - Virtanen (shooter/grinder) That sort of a lineup gives us far more balance. Can swap Dorsett and Virtanen depending on performance, but the main concept is to keep a playmaker on each line with a shooter and have a grinder on the same line too. It's a simple recipe that's been followed throughout the ages in hockey and has lead to some fantastic lines with tremendous success. We've seen our stupid way of constructing our lines end up leading nowhere, it's time to balance them out and that does mean splitting up the twins. It seems to me you would be a better coach than Willie. Seriously though, Willie would make a great assistant coach in the NHL, but he ain't no head coach. He shouldn't be the guy to make the final decision on our player's' ice-time. If only we signed Sullivan instead... Unless the strategy is to accumulate TOP PICKS heading into the Sedin's "golden" years. Then keep losing with Willie, Canucks... Go Canucks Go! (Fire Willie Yo!) or at least demote the moustache man.... Vancouver is proud to select from the Brandon Wheat Kings... Nolan Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonald Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Keep them together for the PP, but 5 on 5 i would like to see: Baer-Henrik-Hansen Daniel-Horvat-Erickson Granlund-Sutter-Virtanen Burrows-Gaunce-Dorsett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I have said this for years...maybe 5 years now? You split them into two lines, the 1a and the 1b and reunite them on the PP. Simple, why doesn't anyone do it? Afraid to lose their jobs...frankly. And by not doing it, we have wasted half a decade of being non contenders with the twins on our roster. 2011 was great, but its been a flop since really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I keep saying split them up also. I think they have a lot to say on the team as I seen them take up pretty much the entire 2 minutes of two PP's tonight. I don't think a coach would normally allow that. Same with putting them on 3 on 3 OT they are way too slow. Lets put the C on Bo and move on already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I will say their time and great play is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceGeorgeGoon Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 41 minutes ago, Jonald said: Keep them together for the PP, but 5 on 5 i would like to see: Baer-Henrik-Hansen Daniel-Horvat-Erickson Granlund-Sutter-Virtanen Burrows-Gaunce-Dorsett Im all repped out, but, this is totally worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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