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Our Team-Speed? (discussion)


Nuxfanabroad

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Would appreciate input from you exp'd folk, with a keen eye for the game. Probably best to evaluate speed when you see games(practices) live. But all sources(media accounts, whatever) are something to go by.

 

We've brought in a few fresh faces. Felt we've been needing more speed, & some of these blokes seem to add that element. For D of course, there's more than just flat-out burners(agility, lateral, backwards, etc...)

 

Assuming Honey Badger is tops. Would someone kindly list our 15~17 fwds(include Virt is probably apropos), according to how fast they fly. I'm pretty sure where Hank & Danny slide in! Advance thanks to any for trying.

 

Megna/Skille/Labate/Chaput?..quite curious how these guys compare.

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Hey Nux Fan...how you doin' this fine frigid day? (it's like -40 today over here in Texas North). I want to ask permission (without hijacking your thread) to add an element to your forward speed rankings...HOCKEY IQ. I would love to see where speed and Hockey IQ come together. The reason I ask (add to your question) is that I would love to know if that speed is useful (ie/ comparing a Mason Raymond to a Pavel Bure...Raymond was fast but useless when he got within 30ft of the other team's net, whereas Bure was fast but lethal). This additional criteria might show up where we truly have a hole or 2 to fill.

 

For example, you mentioned the Sedins (and Eriksson would have to be 3rd) as slowest...no argument here...but I would argue that on our team they are probably 1,2,3 highest in terms of Hockey IQ (let's face it, if they were slow AND dumb they would have been bought out by now). So if someone could rank the players in terms of fastest to slowest, then also rank them in terms of highest Hockey IQ to lowest, then we might actually be able to see who our best forwards truly are. Let's face it, not everyone is getting equal ice-time (nor should they) but this might suggest who is potentially being under utilized and who actually makes more out of each minute of ice-time they are awarded. I'm betting that BoHo ranks right up there in both speed AND Hockey IQ.

 

So with your permission...?

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Depends what kind of speed you are talking about. Pedan (apparently) is the fastest Canuck in terms of raw speed. There is also game speed, puck carry speed, and sprint speed.

 

I'd say Hansen or Horvat are fastest in terms of puck carry speed. Lots of middle of the road guys, that are hard to differentiate after them. Sedins being the slowest for sure. 

 

Game speed, I'd say the Sedins are far and above the fastest. Their cycle is so good because of that. It's not just their passing, it's their edge work and feet/stick positioning that give them the extra step over literally everyone. Sutter, Horvat, Hansen, Gaunce(slow first couple steps), and Baertachi are quite fast at this stuff too. The rest are relatively in the same group. Something I think is holding Virtanen back right now is he is extremely slow at game speed. Decisions are slow, initiating actions are slow... but he generally makes the right choice, if it's made in time. Some AHL seasoning and experience with greatly improve this for him. 

 

And if we go by 100 meter dash, as a measuring stick, I'd rank Hansen and Virtanen, as my tops picks. Beyond that, I'm not sure anyone on this team is enough above the average NHLer, to make an accurate list. Speed is so hard to judge based on what the player ia currently doing. 

 

 

 

EDIT: what makes McDavid seem so fast, is he is probably the first NHLer since Bobby Orr to be the best in the league at all three. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, ABNuck said:

Hey Nux Fan...how you doin' this fine frigid day? (it's like -40 today over here in Texas North). I want to ask permission (without hijacking your thread) to add an element to your forward speed rankings...HOCKEY IQ. I would love to see where speed and Hockey IQ come together. The reason I ask (add to your question) is that I would love to know if that speed is useful (ie/ comparing a Mason Raymond to a Pavel Bure...Raymond was fast but useless when he got within 30ft of the other team's net, whereas Bure was fast but lethal). This additional criteria might show up where we truly have a hole or 2 to fill.

 

For example, you mentioned the Sedins (and Eriksson would have to be 3rd) as slowest...no argument here...but I would argue that on our team they are probably 1,2,3 highest in terms of Hockey IQ (let's face it, if they were slow AND dumb they would have been bought out by now). So if someone could rank the players in terms of fastest to slowest, then also rank them in terms of highest Hockey IQ to lowest, then we might actually be able to see who our best forwards truly are. Let's face it, not everyone is getting equal ice-time (nor should they) but this might suggest who is potentially being under utilized and who actually makes more out of each minute of ice-time they are awarded. I'm betting that BoHo ranks right up there in both speed AND Hockey IQ.

 

So with your permission...?

Yeah, by all means. Just woke up this morning(not so cold in Japan, yet), but appears this thread won't excite the masses :^)

 

Seems many people don't mind posting negative angles..eg: how SLOW this team is. It's hard to tell watching games on my little pc, but appears some of these depth-guys can keep up pretty nicely.

 

Lived in Alberta from 1987-1991, so remember how nasty them winters can get. Take care, up there.

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Playing a speed game is more than just having players who can skate. Our team is definitely not the quickest, but not as slow as it has been. We do have younger and quicker guys than in years past, but adding guys like Stecher on the back end who can move the puck fast helps us play a faster game. The puck can always move faster than a speedy McDavid. We need more guys who can see the game quickly and move the puck fast, as opposed to guys that hang onto it too long and can't read or make a play. With Stecher, and guys like Juolevi, hopefully this part of our game can get much better in the near future.

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5 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

Depends what kind of speed you are talking about. Pedan (apparently) is the fastest Canuck in terms of raw speed. There is also game speed, puck carry speed, and sprint speed.

 

I'd say Hansen or Horvat are fastest in terms of puck carry speed. Lots of middle of the road guys, that are hard to differentiate after them. Sedins being the slowest for sure. 

 

Game speed, I'd say the Sedins are far and above the fastest. Their cycle is so good because of that. It's not just their passing, it's their edge work and feet/stick positioning that give them the extra step over literally everyone. Sutter, Horvat, Hansen, Gaunce(slow first couple steps), and Baertachi are quite fast at this stuff too. The rest are relatively in the same group. Something I think is holding Virtanen back right now is he is extremely slow at game speed. Decisions are slow, initiating actions are slow... but he generally makes the right choice, if it's made in time. Some AHL seasoning and experience with greatly improve this for him. 

 

And if we go by 100 meter dash, as a measuring stick, I'd rank Hansen and Virtanen, as my tops picks. Beyond that, I'm not sure anyone on this team is enough above the average NHLer, to make an accurate list. Speed is so hard to judge based on what the player ia currently doing. 

 

 

 

EDIT: what makes McDavid seem so fast, is he is probably the first NHLer since Bobby Orr to be the best in the league at all three. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said. And I think the "game speed" is what really matters. When people say the team is fast, it's usually because they have high game speed.

 

Game speed is dependent on the players but also the system. If you have a system that deploys players in key locations such that you almost always has a step on the opponent on loose pucks, then you could say that the team is fast. A poor system can make even fast skaters look slow as they will always get to the puck late. Only super star caliber players, like McDavid, can play well despite poor system. Unfortunately, we don't have such superstar so we need a system that can help improve the game speed of the team.

 

 

 

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As we saw in the last game, Skille and Megna both have strong acceleration and good speed with decent skills at speed.  I'm not sure about Skille's hockey IQ, yet, small sample size so far.  If I had to base a judgement on the small amount of ice time this season, I'd say Megna has average to above average hockey IQ and Skille is sort of average, but might have some up side if he figures a couple of things out.  His first goal was a beauty of a power forward move with great finish.  I'd like to see him drive hard to the net more.  Megna seems to be good at getting open in addition to his speed and decent skill.  I wouldn't mind seeing a fourth line of Chaput Megna and Skille once our forwards are healthy.  Gaunce hasn't done a lot so far to earn his spot.  Gaunce has decent top speed but his first three steps need to pick up.  He forechecks with gusto but not a lot of results some times.  I think he might be the odd man out for a while.  Horvat has good first three steps, good top speed and great skills at high speed.  He has solid hockey IQ, but could improve by knowing when it's time to find that great pass to someone open in the slot.  He's a shoot first guy that could use just a bit of balance in his game.

 

The Sedins aren't super fast, but they aren't really slow in terms of top speed.  They have an effortless style due to their hard training that makes them look slower than they are.  They have some of the best hockey IQ in the league in the offensive zone, but in the d zone they are quite poor.  Unbelievable passing skills and ability to get open in the face of smothering defence.  If only they were better in their own zone they'd be a solid second line as they are passed by younger players for first line ice time.

 

I have a hard time quantifying Bertschi.  He can move the puck well, is reasonably quick and has some good moves.  He battles in the corners, but isn't big enough to be super effective there.  He avoids the 'tough areas' in front of the net and needs to just suck it up and get it done.  He can be a decent passer, works hard in his own zone where his size some times hampers his effectiveness.  At his age, it might be a slim hope that he'll learn to use his skills more effectively (as with Megna and Skille) but it's worth seeing how it pans out.  He has potential to be a solid top 6 if he figures it out in a season or two.

 

Eriksson isn't fast, but he's faster than Lucic.  He has very good hockey IQ and passing.  He's willing to go to the 'tough areas' and was snake bitten for the first 10-15 games.  He's a strong player in the d zone and can kill penalties.

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8 hours ago, khay said:

 

Well said. And I think the "game speed" is what really matters. When people say the team is fast, it's usually because they have high game speed.

 

Game speed is dependent on the players but also the system. If you have a system that deploys players in key locations such that you almost always has a step on the opponent on loose pucks, then you could say that the team is fast. A poor system can make even fast skaters look slow as they will always get to the puck late. Only super star caliber players, like McDavid, can play well despite poor system. Unfortunately, we don't have such superstar so we need a system that can help improve the game speed of the team.

 

 

 

Game speed dependant on the players but also the system. Great statement.The recent Chicago- Vancouver game where we were up 3-0 but lost 4-3 in ot comes to mind as a great example of this. A great game by both teams but a type of game the Hawks are used to playing because they have the speed,skill and IQ to play this type of game. I hope in time we are able to play a similar style. Very entertaining game to watch that one was

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15 hours ago, ABNuck said:

Hey Nux Fan...how you doin' this fine frigid day? (it's like -40 today over here in Texas North). I want to ask permission (without hijacking your thread) to add an element to your forward speed rankings...HOCKEY IQ. I would love to see where speed and Hockey IQ come together. The reason I ask (add to your question) is that I would love to know if that speed is useful (ie/ comparing a Mason Raymond to a Pavel Bure...Raymond was fast but useless when he got within 30ft of the other team's net, whereas Bure was fast but lethal). This additional criteria might show up where we truly have a hole or 2 to fill.

 

For example, you mentioned the Sedins (and Eriksson would have to be 3rd) as slowest...no argument here...but I would argue that on our team they are probably 1,2,3 highest in terms of Hockey IQ (let's face it, if they were slow AND dumb they would have been bought out by now). So if someone could rank the players in terms of fastest to slowest, then also rank them in terms of highest Hockey IQ to lowest, then we might actually be able to see who our best forwards truly are. Let's face it, not everyone is getting equal ice-time (nor should they) but this might suggest who is potentially being under utilized and who actually makes more out of each minute of ice-time they are awarded. I'm betting that BoHo ranks right up there in both speed AND Hockey IQ.

 

So with your permission...?

Minus 40? As in erikksons plus minus at the end of the year?

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On 12/9/2016 at 5:05 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Would appreciate input from you exp'd folk, with a keen eye for the game. Probably best to evaluate speed when you see games(practices) live. But all sources(media accounts, whatever) are something to go by.

 

We've brought in a few fresh faces. Felt we've been needing more speed, & some of these blokes seem to add that element. For D of course, there's more than just flat-out burners(agility, lateral, backwards, etc...)

 

Assuming Honey Badger is tops. Would someone kindly list our 15~17 fwds(include Virt is probably apropos), according to how fast they fly. I'm pretty sure where Hank & Danny slide in! Advance thanks to any for trying.

 

Megna/Skille/Labate/Chaput?..quite curious how these guys compare.

 

 

Good topic

Team speed is average i would say or slightly below

IQ on both ends of the ice would slightly above average for forwards and slightly below average for D

Just an opinion without hard facts of course.

 

0= slow as molasses Speed IQ
10= faster then a speeding bullet    
     
H Sedin 4 9
D Sedin 5 8
Loui Eriksson 5 8
Alex Burrows 6 7
Sven Baertchi 7 7
Bo Horvat 8 7
Brendan Sutter 7 7
Jannik Hansen 9 7
Markus Granlund 6 7
Chaput 6 5
Jason Megna 8 6
Jack Skille 7 5
Brendan Gaunce 6 5
     
Alex Edler 5 7
Chris Tanev 7 8
Eric Gudbranson 5 5
Ben Hutton 6 7
Nakita Tryamkin 5 6
Alex Biega 7 4
Philip Larsen 7 5
Luca Sbisa 5 6
Troy Stecher 7 7
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1 hour ago, nuck-lifer said:

 

 

Good topic

Team speed is average i would say or slightly below

IQ on both ends of the ice would slightly above average for forwards and slightly below average for D

Just an opinion without hard facts of course.

 

0= slow as molasses Speed IQ
10= faster then a speeding bullet    
     
H Sedin 4 9
D Sedin 5 8
Loui Eriksson 5 8
Alex Burrows 6 7
Sven Baertchi 7 7
Bo Horvat 8 7
Brendan Sutter 7 7
Jannik Hansen 9 7
Markus Granlund 6 7
Chaput 6 5
Jason Megna 8 6
Jack Skille 7 5
Brendan Gaunce 6 5
     
Alex Edler 5 7
Chris Tanev 7 8
Eric Gudbranson 5 5
Ben Hutton 6 7
Nakita Tryamkin 5 6
Alex Biega 7 4
Philip Larsen 7 5
Luca Sbisa 5 6
Troy Stecher 7 7

Thanks NL, this is an interesting list. A little info to mull as I watch our boys skating about.

 

Last spring Pitt won with speed as a major element. In Mtl(esp their depth lines) seems they're employing it to advantage. Often see them racking up 40+ shots, & pushing the pace.

 

Enjoy watching the game when your team has lots of speed & grit.

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1 hour ago, nuck-lifer said:

 

 

Good topic

Team speed is average i would say or slightly below

IQ on both ends of the ice would slightly above average for forwards and slightly below average for D

Just an opinion without hard facts of course.

 

0= slow as molasses Speed IQ
10= faster then a speeding bullet    
     
H Sedin 4 9
D Sedin 5 8
Loui Eriksson 5 8
Alex Burrows 6 7
Sven Baertchi 7 7
Bo Horvat 8 7
Brendan Sutter 7 7
Jannik Hansen 9 7
Markus Granlund 6 7
Chaput 6 5
Jason Megna 8 6
Jack Skille 7 5
Brendan Gaunce 6 5
     
Alex Edler 5 7
Chris Tanev 7 8
Eric Gudbranson 5 5
Ben Hutton 6 7
Nakita Tryamkin 5 6
Alex Biega 7 4
Philip Larsen 7 5
Luca Sbisa 5 6
Troy Stecher 7 7

good list.... I'd agree with most though Sbisa seems faster to me?

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Chris Higgins would have been a good debate in this discussion.

 

He had a relentless forecheck attitude and high hockey IQ but lacked top end foot speed. In short busts he was fine and showed some quickness battling in the offensive zone.

 

I have never like Guance and just because he played decent in the pre-season he got a spot.

 

IMO the worst decision the Canucks have made so far this season is not sending him down with Virtanen to help out Utica while Chaput and Megna have played better and are already up.

 

How do you think Utica feels knowing all they have on the farm left as a scoring threat is Jordan Subban, Grenier, and Pascal Pelletier?

 

Throw Guance down there on the top line with Virtanen and see if they can build some chemistry for the future.

 

Guance has the size but doesn't have the mentality to play a 4th line grinder role that he is currently being deployed as.

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13 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

I think you've misjudged Hutton's speed.  He's a 7 or possibly even an 8.  He's very fast.  It might also be worth while to quantify 'first three steps' as well as ability to change direction quickly, although the two are somewhat related.

 

I guess I was judging him on his defensive startup speed. he seems to get caught flat footed often and looks awkward at times, but you're right on he top flight speed. it should be 7 or better.

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8 hours ago, nuck-lifer said:

 

 

Good topic

Team speed is average i would say or slightly below

IQ on both ends of the ice would slightly above average for forwards and slightly below average for D

Just an opinion without hard facts of course.

 

0= slow as molasses Speed IQ
10= faster then a speeding bullet    
     
H Sedin 4 9
D Sedin 5 8
Loui Eriksson 5 8
Alex Burrows 6 7
Sven Baertchi 7 7
Bo Horvat 8 7
Brendan Sutter 7 7
Jannik Hansen 9 7
Markus Granlund 6 7
Chaput 6 5
Jason Megna 8 6
Jack Skille 7 5
Brendan Gaunce 6 5
     
Alex Edler 5 7
Chris Tanev 7 8
Eric Gudbranson 5 5
Ben Hutton 6 7
Nakita Tryamkin 5 6
Alex Biega 7 4
Philip Larsen 7 5
Luca Sbisa 5 6
Troy Stecher 7 7

 

I agree with this....except Gaunce and Gubranson are "7"s for speed, not 5's and Hutton may be a 7 as well, Larsen more like a 6.

Stecher is a solid 8 for IQ and Horvat will be solid 8 next year...just needs to realize how good he is and build on it.

...

Totally nitpicking...!

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10 hours ago, nuck-lifer said:

 

 

Good topic

Team speed is average i would say or slightly below

IQ on both ends of the ice would slightly above average for forwards and slightly below average for D

Just an opinion without hard facts of course.

 

0= slow as molasses Speed IQ
10= faster then a speeding bullet    
     
H Sedin 4 9
D Sedin 5 8
Loui Eriksson 5 8
Alex Burrows 6 7
Sven Baertchi 7 7
Bo Horvat 8 7
Brendan Sutter 7 7
Jannik Hansen 9 7
Markus Granlund 6 7
Chaput 6 5
Jason Megna 8 6
Jack Skille 7 5
Brendan Gaunce 6 5
     
Alex Edler 5 7
Chris Tanev 7 8
Eric Gudbranson 5 5
Ben Hutton 6 7
Nakita Tryamkin 5 6
Alex Biega 7 4
Philip Larsen 7 5
Luca Sbisa 5 6
Troy Stecher 7 7

 

While we all appreciate the great effort you must have put into this exhaustive list (and thank you), I thought I should mention that you could have saved yourself a lot of time and effort by simply saying "this teams speed/tempo = that of Vancouver" (A.K.A.;SLOW/Boring).

 

 

 

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