NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, Baggins said: Trading picks for young NHL ready players is also rebuilding. There's just less wait time. Problem is, our "pro scouting" still seems be fairly hit or miss at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Baggins said: Trading picks for young NHL ready players is also rebuilding. There's just less wait time. Dont you think we should be trading the rest of the old guard, even if they have NTCs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: Problem is, our "pro scouting" still seems be fairly hit or miss at best. Find any team whose scouting isn't hit and miss. It's not an exact science predicting what boys will do well in a mens league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, Baggins said: Find any team whose scouting isn't hit and miss. It's not an exact science predicting what boys will do well in a mens league. The current regime tends to strike out as much as Reggie Jackson (minus the home runs). Your 2nd point is applicable more to drafting. I was referring to ideas like thinking putting Y. Weber in the top four was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Dont you think we should be trading the rest of the old guard, even if they have NTCs? No. Their experience, how hard they prepare, and how hard they play is something for the young guys to look up to and strive for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yes. I heard LOU Lamerillo say he collected picks so he could use them to move up in rounds 2-7 if there were players he liked, and didn't want to miss. I gave him that flexibility. That's what rebuilding teams do. They collect picks. Here's a spin on your collect as many picks as you can theory. A team only has 50 contracts to dish out and undoubtedly they will need to select only a handful of players within each draft class to sign. Having more picks gives you a better chance to find players worth signing in the later rounds, but if you're giving up assets to acquire picks and then not signing them, how is that better than using those picks to get younger NHL ready players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: The current regime tends to strike out as much as Reggie Jackson (minus the home runs). Your 2nd point is applicable more to drafting. I was referring to ideas like thinking putting Y. Weber in the top four was a good idea. Not sure what Weber in our top four has to do with scouting. It's not like Weber was highly paid. That's often an indicator of skill level. When Benning took over what was there NHL ready in the prospect pool to replace older players being moved out? It didn't really qualify as a wading pool. I knew some players on the team, for at least a couple of years, would be fillers for the interim. Not every acquisition will be here for the long run. Time needed to be bought to give actual draft picks and young propsects acquired in trade time to develop. I keep saying it, there is no such thing as a quick rebuild. Particularly where we were starting from - an empty wading pool. In 14/15 Weber led our D in goals. Not great defensively but was decent offensively. Last year he was frequently a healthy scratch. The coach has to go with what he's given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Goblin Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Each of the owners and management group have a CDC account so no surprise there. They read every post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: "It's your fault for wanting the team to win!" I hate this fan base. No kidding eh. Reducing all the different perspectives here to one's own "collective voice" is the height of arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Green Goblin said: Each of the owners and management group have a CDC account so no surprise there. They read every post. Are you suggesting those guys can all read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, oldnews said: No kidding eh. Reducing all the different perspectives here to one's own "collective voice" is the height of arrogance. Were you a Professor of English or something? This sounds great, but it means??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, oldnews said: No kidding eh. Reducing all the different perspectives here to one's own "collective voice" is the height of arrogance. Hi Old News, I was wondering where you were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Just now, Alflives said: Were you a Professor of English or something? This sounds great, but it means??? It means I feel just terrible for causing the team to lose by wanting it to win. If only I'd wanted it to lose. But now I understand and will repent. I'm just thankful we have a leader that has finally expressed our collective voice for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Look, it comes down to why do Vegas Odd Makers think we will be dead last by the end of the season? Why most sports journalist think, we will be about the same Why we have the 21st best core under 25 years of age Are all these people and organizations wrong? And you are right Old News, is that what your saying? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Look, it comes down to why do Vegas Odd Makers think we will be dead last by the end of the season? Why most sports journalist think, we will be about the same Why we have the 21 best core under 25 years of age Are all these people and organization wrong? Don't question the club. Be another Oldnews.... Accept Mediocracy. Aim for 25th.... Who knows we might make 22nd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said: Look, it comes down to why do Vegas Odd Makers think we will be dead last by the end of the season? Why most sports journalist think, we will be about the same Why we have the 21 best core under 25 years of age Are all these people and organization wrong? It's obvious we would be way further ahead in our rebuild if JB would have torn the house down from day one. This half arsed method of a retool clearly isn't working. We don't have enough prospects to be rebuilding, and we are not competing for anything but last. We are stuck in the middle. Some times you gotta go ALL IN, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 21 minutes ago, Baggins said: Not sure what Weber in our top four has to do with scouting. It's not like Weber was highly paid. That's often an indicator of skill level. When Benning took over what was there NHL ready in the prospect pool to replace older players being moved out? It didn't really qualify as a wading pool. I knew some players on the team, for at least a couple of years, would be fillers for the interim. Not every acquisition will be here for the long run. Time needed to be bought to give actual draft picks and young propsects acquired in trade time to develop. I keep saying it, there is no such thing as a quick rebuild. Particularly where we were starting from - an empty wading pool. In 14/15 Weber led our D in goals. Not great defensively but was decent offensively. Last year he was frequently a healthy scratch. The coach has to go with what he's given. In 14/15 he was still an absolute trainwreck in his own zone and was a MAJOR disaster during the playoffs. There is no reason WD should have even considered DRESSING him last season, even with all the injuries. We could have taken a look at Pedan, who was already better than Weber and actually has a chance of developing into a legit NHLer. There is no excuse for Weber. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I think this mindset expressed by the OP is one of losers and quitters - and the ultimate excuse makers. People that want the ultimate excuse - we suck because we're trying to lose - so we can get an affirmative action handout / lottery cheque for welfare franchises - in a professional sports league of all the embarrassing chickencrap approaches. "Just do it like Toronto" logic. No standards - nothing to live up to - and even better, when they fail, they live up to reverse expectations. Losing is winning. Look how good management is! Their 'master plan' has gotten us Mathews! It's a chickencrap cop out. It's fail proof - when there are no standards, you can't fail or lose.. And not only that market laps it right up, but other loser markets pine on to copycat it Because we can all have the 1st overall in the end! Loser mentality. The ultimate excuse for being losers. And people think having ridiculous levels of injuries are no excuse lol. But we'll win in the future! In the meantime, we buy some years of no standards and positive incompetence. Start judging us when we actually start to try to win. We'll keep you posted when that is. At least this management group has the integrity to try to win, not to stand with their hands out, palms up for a lottery handout. And they hold themselves accountable on both sides of the ledger - they don't resort to a prefab excuse for not making the playoffs. They also don't pretend that tearing it all down will get you all what you want. It aint that simple. But we should be ashamed for breaking rank with the geniuses like the OP that would have gotten us our Saviour by now. If only we'd all gotten in line. As Baggins said - just another tank thread. You'd think that by now, after all the endless and redundant debates, that virtually everyone here would realize that tanks have succeeded and tanks have failed. Retools or rebuilds short of a teardown/tankdown have succeeded and they have failed. But hey, who needs different perspectives and the more complex realities/truths when we can all be given a "collective voice"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Funny thing.......... I was reading a post earlier that suggested we keep on the same path, retool on the fly, and then an old memory showed up When I was a kid, I used to go to White Rock beach, down by the border, there at low tide, I would build a huge Sandcastle, some time they were 2 to 3 feet high, I would build a moat around it with huge walls....it would take all day, most of the time, just before the returning tide started lapping at the outer walls. Just about that time, the walls would start caving in, and I would plug that hole quickly, just as another hole would appear, as the tide became higher, I had to replace more sand quicker, and quicker, as even more holes appeared, but eventually, the tide would win, as could not plug the holes fast enough........ At the end, I would grab all my important tools, and sadly walk up the beach and wait for the tide to go back down, where, along with my most tools, I would start my rebuild, never once did I retool fast enough to beat the tide, until I realized that if I settled for a less beautiful castle above the tide line, which would never be knocked down..... Odd analogy, I know, but somehow, it seems to fit........has anyone else tried to do that? You just can't work fast enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 19 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Don't question the club. Be another Oldnews.... Accept Mediocracy. Aim for 25th.... Who knows we might make 22nd.. Why aim for 22nd when you can go full loser with kingofsurrey? Nothing but 30th for the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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