TL: No situation where we mortgage future to make playoff push

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

Just adding what Benning said regarding the draft and trade deadline.

 

 

 

[Iggynucks]

19 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Edler has just changed his game from what it was a few years ago. He won't be putting the offensive numbers he was once did, but he still does a good job of defending top forwards and is still an excellent puck-mover. 

 

Sbisa has improved from a #8 D-man to a #6 over two years. That's about his max potential, he does not have the tools or IQ to be a top-4 D-man.

Oh he's an excellent puck mover alright. He moves the puck to the opposing team more than any of our other defencemen. To say Sbisa started as a #8 and is now only a #6 is seriously underselling him. I like how take a shot at his IQ like you personally know his intelligence level too.

 

Agree to disagree I guess. I see a player 3 years younger, 1.4 million cheaper and on a more moveable contract as a better option moving forward.

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

Just adding what Benning said regarding the draft and trade deadline.

 

 

 

Bob McKenzie put out his mid term today and the top 7 look pretty interesting. The pickings get slim from there down. Some interesting D though.

[kanucks25]

13 minutes ago, Iggynucks said:

Oh he's an excellent puck mover alright. He moves the puck to the opposing team more than any of our other defencemen. To say Sbisa started as a #8 and is now only a #6 is seriously underselling him. I like how take a shot at his IQ like you personally know his intelligence level too.

 

Agree to disagree I guess. I see a player 3 years younger, 1.4 million cheaper and on a more moveable contract as a better option moving forward.

Hockey IQ*

 

There are no metrics that prove that Sbisa is a better player than Edler. You exaggerate the amount of mistakes Edler makes.

[KKnight]

1 hour ago, Iggynucks said:

Last 5 seasons

 

Hamhuis:

 

ar	Team	GP	G	A	Pts	+/-	PIM	Hits	Bks
2012-13	VAN	47	4	20	24	9	12	47	63
2013-14	VAN	79	5	17	22	13	26	87	130
2014-15	VAN	59	1	22	23	0	44	82	71
2015-16	VAN	58	3	10	13	-2	28	64	72
2016-17	DAL	48	1	9	10	6	8	57	61

 

Edler:

 

Year	Team	GP	G	A	Pts	+/-	PIM	Hits	Bks
2012-13	VAN	45	8	14	22	-5	37	77	81
2013-14	VAN	63	7	15	22	-39	50	112	136
2014-15	VAN	74	8	23	31	13	54	94	126
2015-16	VAN	52	6	14	20	-8	46	84	106
2016-17	VAN	36	1	8	9	-9	12	68	78

 

Pretty comparable numbers.

I still don't see him as better defender right NOW. Comparing careers, Hammer hands down, but at this moment i rather have Edler than Hammer.. 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, blackpluto96 said:

Not sure if your previous bias towards Edler has clouded your view of his play this year in comparisons to Sbisa. Let's look at some basic numbers for this season.

Edler vs. Sbisa

TOI: 24:11 vs. 18:46

OZS% 50.8% vs. 50.0%

CF% 49% vs. 46.9%

Pts: 1/8/9 vs. 2/10/12

And for your observation of Edler constantly putting our goalies in a pickle...

TK/GV: 11/19 vs. 7/29

 

So if you argue that Edler is on a downward trend vs. his prime while Luca is showing upside being 3 years younger, I'd agree. But by pure performance, I'd still protect Edler. Also one needs to realize that the guy eats up 24 min a game and there is no guarantee that Sbisa can maintain his current (already inferior to Edler) play with higher minutes.  I like Sbisa, but I'd pick Edler over him.

 

That's clearly not the only factor though.

Taking nothing away from Edler, who I think is a legitimate top pairing defenseman - maybe not a #1, but a reasonable 2 or 3 - who can still eat huge, hard minutes.

But there's age and Edler's back injury history.

There's cap hit and term - and how much trajectory remains in their careers.

And perhaps most importantly, there is their projected value moving forward,  When you factor how rapidly and significantly Sbisa has improved, it becomes a much more difficult question imo.

[mll]

35 minutes ago, luckylager said:

That's a good argument (Caps example) to help settle my anxiety over being handcuffed and having Sbisa or Baer ripped away from us. I assume it would be Sbisa though, given the cap floor Vegas will have to build towards.

 

I don't remember the Swede you mention. I was a teen for most of the 90's, a die hard Canucks fan, but I didn't follow the business end of things. I just followed the business end of girls to parties, dreamed of being a pro snowboarder and smoking pot for a living... 

Don't think they will need Sbisa to reach the floor.  They are drafting 30 players and the total cap they have to reach is roughly 45M - that's an average of 1.5M.

[luckylager]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Don't think they will need Sbisa to reach the floor.  They are drafting 30 players and the total cap they have to reach is roughly 45M - that's an average of 1.5M. I would think the upper limit is more the problem with 7 players more than the normal 23.  

I had it in my head they had to hit 55m, regardless, if the draft was today I'd put my money on Sbisa being their target. All the "Italians" would love having Sbisa throwing games for them.

[terrible.dee]

2 hours ago, luckylager said:

But wouldn't it be great if that player was Dorsett or Bulldog, instead of Sven, Granny or Sbisus?

 

I wouldn't say it's hysteria, it's just something to talk about like

  Reveal hidden contents

"Asset Management" haha

 

 

Dorset is a VERY real possibility, I could definitely see Vegas taking him, and pre-targeting him as well

[luckylager]

9 minutes ago, terrible.dee said:

Dorset is a VERY real possibility, I could definitely see Vegas taking him, and pre-targeting him as well

We're just not that lucky, unless McPhee is a tank commander.

[Bovechkin]

1 hour ago, blackpluto96 said:

I don't disagree. I also had very high expectations for him especially around our 2011 run. It just seems since his back injury, he was never the same. With this said, he's still the work horse on this D and a steady minute eater and anchor for the young guys. There's value to this as mentioned by TL and I strongly believe that. I have no problem moving on from Edler if the return is right but saying I'd expose him before Sbisa, I can't fathom this logic. 

I think this is the argument at the end of the day :

If we can't trade Edler (he doesn't waive NTC), then who would you rather expose? If our contender window is in ~3 years, by then Edler will be significantly older and presumably not the same hockey player. At the same time Sbisa is improving and in ~3 years can very well be equal or better than Edler.

 

If Edler is down to waive the NTC then it's a whole different dilemma....

[terrible.dee]

33 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Hockey IQ*

 

There are no metrics that prove that Sbisa is a better player than Edler. You exaggerate the amount of mistakes Edler makes.

 

Both players have been highly mistake prone throughout their careers, more so than the average D 

 

Sbisa has yet to really prove he can do something with the puck yet, I want to see 30 assists and a whole lot of completed break out passes before I declare any D man to be a Legit top 2 Edler has all of that on his resume.

 

At any rate the D man we need to rid ourselves of is Gudbransson, that guy makes everyone he's on the ice with worse, his puck skills are ECHL level, I say convert him to a 4th line intimidator, and let him stand in front on some powerplays, but get him the hell of our blueline for the love of god!

 

[Provost]

4 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Overall, happy with these points.

 

Would rather they move a package(eg:Sbisa, Gran), for more youth, due to expansion. However, it's likely 28 or even 29 other fanbases have the same feeling. Must be a lousy market for selling pieces that require protection.

I mentioned it in another thread, but I REALLY think that this is a key opportunity to wickedly improve our depth.

 

Prices for guys will be seriously depressed because lots of teams will be looking to unload a player or two to avoid losing them for nothing.  Players who would command a 2nd round pick plus a prospect may only be worth a later pick or a B level AHL prospect who doesn't need to be exposed.

 

It completely makes sense for a team like ours to go in the opposite direction and trade for several of those players, knowing they will lose only one and still have greatly improved depth.  It also serves to help protect one of your own players or giving them away for little return.  Players better than Granlund and Baertschi were (when we traded for them) may suddenly be available for a 4th round pick or a prospect who is probably never going to be an NHL regular.

 

After the draft you can even move someone at a higher price as teams try to re-stock.

 

 

[terrible.dee]

Just now, luckylager said:

We're just not that lucky, unless McPhee is a tank commander.

Mc Phee is a world Class A$$^%le who LOVES to goon it up, and every expansion team knows the fighters are the most popular players for the first few years, he will be taking a few goons, Dorsett has the "small guy with big heart" built in storyline, which new fans can connect with.

 

From a marketing standpoint, Dorsett will sell tickets, I say Mc Phee takes him if he's available

[luckylager]

10 minutes ago, terrible.dee said:

Mc Phee is a world Class A$$^%le who LOVES to goon it up, and every expansion team knows the fighters are the most popular players for the first few years, he will be taking a few goons, Dorsett has the "small guy with big heart" built in storyline, which new fans can connect with.

 

From a marketing standpoint, Dorsett will sell tickets, I say Mc Phee takes him if he's available

Can't argue that (world class ahole) but Sbisa's no softy and he's Italian to boot. The mafia will buy more boxes to watch an Italian and to have him around after the game. 

 

Gotta sell those corporate seats and boxes in your market. "Italians" run Vegas

 

 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Pretty much. Except for a small handful of serious contenders who feel they need to go for it and a small handful of bottom feeders who have nobody worth protecting. Draft picks and prospects were never so valuable before. Teams with few players worth/needing protecting who still have all their draft picks have a great chance to improve their teams this year.

Yes that is how I see it as well

[spook007]

4 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

How about just one trade. Two? Any kind of pick acquisition would stand out as of today. 

Not sure I'm expecting "a lot" of trades, representing the posters who are hoping for a bunch of picks or prospects coming back in trades. 

Any trade would be good, if it could help us protect our assets. But think most teams feel the same. 

A few teams in a win now may make a trade, but they won't be able to protect these players, so I won't expect much movement at all.

Fact is we're all i the same boat regarding the league expansion.

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Iggynucks said:

Oh he's an excellent puck mover alright. He moves the puck to the opposing team more than any of our other defencemen. To say Sbisa started as a #8 and is now only a #6 is seriously underselling him. I like how take a shot at his IQ like you personally know his intelligence level too.

 

Agree to disagree I guess. I see a player 3 years younger, 1.4 million cheaper and on a more moveable contract as a better option moving forward.

You may want to take a look at Hutton's giveaways.

[billabong]

I love the sedins and they are the greatest players in Canucks history, but I hope next year will be their last in a Canucks uniform. 

 

Theyll be 37 next year and 38 the following season if they keep playing. How effective will they be in 2 years? This is a youth movement on all accounts.

 

lets move on with our lives and let players grow into their potential

 

with the sedins here it creates a glass ceiling over horvat, beartschi, boeser, virt, etc... 

 

nazzy and bert had to leave for the sedins finally to run with the ball and be the go-to guys. They couldn't take it until they left and 10+ Years later it's time for the torch to be passed on. 

[blackpluto96]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

That's clearly not the only factor though.

Taking nothing away from Edler, who I think is a legitimate top pairing defenseman - maybe not a #1, but a reasonable 2 or 3 - who can still eat huge, hard minutes.

But there's age and Edler's back injury history.

There's cap hit and term - and how much trajectory remains in their careers.

And perhaps most importantly, there is their projected value moving forward,  When you factor how rapidly and significantly Sbisa has improved, it becomes a much more difficult question imo.

You are not wrong. I think Edler with his level of play and contribution, is not a bad deal at $5M for the next two years, and he's not that old at 30 right now. Of course it's an unknown whether Sbisa can handle the big minutes at the level he's progressing, but for me, Edler is proven and less of a risk to handle the big minutes in the next two years with all the new faces coming in, who all need sheltering.  I just have a hard time giving up this high minute #2/3 guy in the current situation, for free. I think Sbisa is easier to replace.