alfstonker Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 11 hours ago, oldnews said: How is valuing Gudbranson and/or Sbisa over Edler moving forward "assinine." They're all worth a 1st round pick - they'd all be a significant loss - if it came down to a choice between the three it's nowhere near as obvious as you're stating it imo. Except that Edler has the better pedigree, he's smarter than Gud and more physical than Sbisa. He out of all 3 is the one most missed when injured or out of the team. He is the best mentor of the 3 imo and will likely settle for less of a contract in future just to stay in Vancouver. Gud will likely imo be looking for a big payday and frankly I think he has been oversold to us by JB. The other 2 are younger but in fact that may be immaterial when/if Juolevi, McEnney, Brisebois, Neil or others come up. Don't get me wrong I would love to keep all 3 but if it came down to it I would rather lose Gudbranson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 10 hours ago, Iggynucks said: Just watch Edler closely for the rest of the year. His turnovers and poor decisions cost the team constantly. The goaltenders bail him out quite a bit so the the errors are not as amplified. Every now and then Edler has a game that reminds me of the Edler of old but just too inconsistent for the $5 million they're paying him. Whereas Sbisa is 3 years younger and has gotten better each year he's been here. He'll never produce the offensive numbers that Edler used to put up but I don't see Edler ever putting those numbers up again either. Did you watch Gudbranson? The guy was a nightmare. The only reason he got a free pass was he was still settling in and could fight. Your argument falls flat when looking at how well the team does when Edler is not in it - he is essential to our D and imo the only one who is. We actually don't have any Ds who don't make turnovers and if you want to talk silly turnovers look no further than the Twins - however like Edler they contribute far more than they give away - something many people on here fail to realise when they continually pick on Edler. I like Sbisa and have often defended him on here and maybe Guddy will come back stronger but neither can match Edler in all round effectiveness, minute crunching, or ability. He is also on a very good value contract. That is why he would be snapped up ahead of the other 2 by any team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 7 hours ago, billabong said: I love the sedins and they are the greatest players in Canucks history, but I hope next year will be their last in a Canucks uniform. Theyll be 37 next year and 38 the following season if they keep playing. How effective will they be in 2 years? This is a youth movement on all accounts. lets move on with our lives and let players grow into their potential with the sedins here it creates a glass ceiling over horvat, beartschi, boeser, virt, etc... nazzy and bert had to leave for the sedins finally to run with the ball and be the go-to guys. They couldn't take it until they left and 10+ Years later it's time for the torch to be passed on. Couldn't agree more. I want to see them finishing at the top. They don't have the physical attributes of Jagr or Nolan and frankly they are becoming the spanner in the works to this team FINALLY changing it's identity to speed, skill and aggression. We will miss them at first, that is a given, but we have to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 7 hours ago, kanucks25 said: No, but he has a history of trading away draft picks in general. So far, since he's been the Canucks GM, he's traded more picks than he's acquired even though he inherited a bunch of older but still valuable (in the trade market) assets. He also showed last year that he's willing to sit on his hands at the deadline and let free-agents walk away for nothing. It was quite the disastrous trade deadline and some are afraid of a repeat. When you can't make deals, how is it disastrous? Both Hamhuis and Vrbata were UFA pick ups. The Canucks didn't give up anything except money. Melodramatic much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 7 hours ago, kanucks25 said: No, but he has a history of trading away draft picks in general. So far, since he's been the Canucks GM, he's traded more picks than he's acquired even though he inherited a bunch of older but still valuable (in the trade market) assets. He also showed last year that he's willing to sit on his hands at the deadline and let free-agents walk away for nothing. It was quite the disastrous trade deadline and some are afraid of a repeat. I don't care if he trades away draft picks when it's for young NHL ready players. If by sitting on his hands you mean having his hands tied by ntc's he did. Vrbata gave list he knew would have no interest. Hamhuis gave one option where he was second choice and Dallas got their first choice. The other two options he gave had no interest. But that's been beaten to death, some just don't want to accept the reality. I don't see how it was disastrous when both players cost us nothing to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 9 hours ago, billabong said: I love the sedins and they are the greatest players in Canucks history, but I hope next year will be their last in a Canucks uniform. Theyll be 37 next year and 38 the following season if they keep playing. How effective will they be in 2 years? This is a youth movement on all accounts. lets move on with our lives and let players grow into their potential with the sedins here it creates a glass ceiling over horvat, beartschi, boeser, virt, etc... nazzy and bert had to leave for the sedins finally to run with the ball and be the go-to guys. They couldn't take it until they left and 10+ Years later it's time for the torch to be passed on. There is no glass ceiling. They are challenging guys to push them down to the 2nd line because it will make the team stronger that way. This is from the start of the season and shows their mindset: “But if you want to be top-line players, you’ve got to bring it for 80 games. You have to want to be the go-to guys. You want to get the power-play time, the offensive faceoffs, be out there at the end of the game. That’s why you play hockey. And if you ask Sven and Bo, they want the same thing. I hope they do, at least. As Henrik described the Sedins’ long-ago ascension past Naslund and the West Coast Express: “The years before if we didn’t score, everyone blamed Nassy. All of a sudden, we’re in the spotlight and we need to score. It’s easy to say you want it, but it’s not easy to have to be there every night. They (Baertschi and Bo) need to believe that they can do that.” This transition is already happening. Other teams are now way more focused on the Horvat line than they were at the start of the season - they are playing more and more the better Ds. Horvat was just commenting how it feels like he is always getting tough matchups every night now. WD is not trying to shelter them. He explained last year that his role is to get guys to play at their maximum potential and that he can't push guys the same way because some are already close to their limit. So at times it's easier for some players to get ice time/opportunities while he makes it harder on others re different upsides and expectations. Baer and Horvat have each produced at pretty much the same pace as the Sedins ever since the end of the 9-game losing streak and Burrows joined their line. Roughly 0.70 pace over the last 37 games - Daniel is a bit lower. But it's not the same thing producing from the 3rd line vs the top line. Horvat has looked generally solid but there were stretches where points weren't there - the challenge is to be able to produce consistently while other teams are way more aware of his line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 8 hours ago, LaBamba said: I want an exceptional drafting GM to go to each draft with all of his picks and hopefully more. I'm not sure if it's an ownership thing or just a odd coincidence but I honestly can't recall a situation where we have ever sold a player for a pick at the trade deadline of any significance. Why does everyone always expect the opposite every year? The last time was march 5th, of 2014. Mike Gillis trade Raphael Diaz to NYR in exchange for a 5th round pick. That pick became Adam Gaudette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 hours ago, alfstonker said: Did you watch Gudbranson? The guy was a nightmare. The only reason he got a free pass was he was still settling in and could fight. Your argument falls flat when looking at how well the team does when Edler is not in it - he is essential to our D and imo the only one who is. We actually don't have any Ds who don't make turnovers and if you want to talk silly turnovers look no further than the Twins - however like Edler they contribute far more than they give away - something many people on here fail to realise when they continually pick on Edler. I like Sbisa and have often defended him on here and maybe Guddy will come back stronger but neither can match Edler in all round effectiveness, minute crunching, or ability. He is also on a very good value contract. That is why he would be snapped up ahead of the other 2 by any team in the league. I should hope that a 11 year 30 year old vet would outshine a 23 year old. It is not as much about what Gudbranson is contributing now as what he could do in 3 years when the Canucks are hopefully competitive again. The depth on the Canuck d-core make either Edler or Tanev tradable. I picked Tanev to move because of his trade value and the desperate need for forward prospects. Why Tanev? His injury history, size, lack of offense. I seriously worry about how well Tanev would stand up in heavy CUP play. Why keep Edler? His NTC causes problems. Benning could expose him to Vegas with hopes that Edler would OK a trade. I still like Edler's game but at a reduced TOI in the 20 -22 TOI. Reduced TOI improves his play and longevity. He could be moved at the expiry of his contract. The team development timeline is all about the maturing of a very young group. Tryamkin's play could be demanding 22 - 24 TOI next year! Keep and develop the young players and move one of Tanev or Edler for forward prospects that compliment the time line. Losing any top 4 d-man to Vegas is a absolute non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Larsen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 16 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Overall, happy with these points. Would rather they move a package(eg:Sbisa, Gran), for more youth, due to expansion. However, it's likely 28 or even 29 other fanbases have the same feeling. Must be a lousy market for selling pieces that require protection. This, but even rentals at past deadlines have gotten some decent returns. Ladd was never going to stay in chicago and they still paid a pretty price. So there is some hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 4 hours ago, alfstonker said: Except that Edler has the better pedigree, he's smarter than Gud and more physical than Sbisa. He out of all 3 is the one most missed when injured or out of the team. He is the best mentor of the 3 imo and will likely settle for less of a contract in future just to stay in Vancouver. Gud will likely imo be looking for a big payday and frankly I think he has been oversold to us by JB. The other 2 are younger but in fact that may be immaterial when/if Juolevi, McEnney, Brisebois, Neil or others come up. Don't get me wrong I would love to keep all 3 but if it came down to it I would rather lose Gudbranson. The best mentor is Guddy and he's also the youngest. And out of the 3, Guddy is the only RHD. Outside of him the only other NHL RHD we have is Stecher, Biega and Larsen (although I wouldn't consider Larsen NHL quality). Guddy is two years young than Sbisa, he provides intimidation, leadership, and a heavy shot. Once he heals up and settles in his a core piece to our team moving forwards. Sbisa as a 25 year old in his first season in Vancouver put up 3goals,11 points in 76 games. Guddy at 25 in his first season with Canucks, was on pace to put up 16 points before he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 6 hours ago, alfstonker said: Except that Edler has the better pedigree, he's smarter than Gud and more physical than Sbisa. . Gheesh, Alf...That's kind of going out on a limb. Edler is not what most would describe as a "smart" defenseman and he certainly is not very physical. About his only real strength at this point (since his back injury) is that he can eat up 20+ minutes with reasonable effectiveness. Edler may have been more effective than Gudy this year but who has the potential to be a factor two or three years from now? Gudy was nursing an injury, that can really affect how effective a big, shutdown D can be. As for physical, I see Sbisa as taking the body with authority far more than Edler and Sbisa plays with an edge and will stand up and be counted when teammates are challenged. Edler just slinks away. IF we have Try, Gudy and Sbisa for toughness and add in smarts with Olli, Stecher, Subban, Taneve etc, Edler, really doesn't bring anything extra and will bring less in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: The best mentor is Guddy and he's also the youngest. And out of the 3, Guddy is the only RHD. Outside of him the only other NHL RHD we have is Stecher, Biega and Larsen (although I wouldn't consider Larsen NHL quality). Guddy is two years young than Sbisa, he provides intimidation, leadership, and a heavy shot. Once he heals up and settles in his a core piece to our team moving forwards. Sbisa as a 25 year old in his first season in Vancouver put up 3goals,11 points in 76 games. Guddy at 25 in his first season with Canucks, was on pace to put up 16 points before he got hurt. Tanev? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, hlinkas wrister said: Tanev? Guess he doesn't consider Tanev to be a NHL Dman. Or maybe he doesn't know what side Tanev plays on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, hlinkas wrister said: Tanev? Yep forgot him, and I've already made my mind up that he's going to arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 45 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said: Guess he doesn't consider Tanev to be a NHL Dman. Or maybe he doesn't know what side Tanev plays on. Cool story...Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Does TL really deserve an applause for this basic, foundational "asset management", which spurred the thread? It's an expectation, boarding on a stupid question in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 21 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yep forgot him, and I've already made my mind up that he's going to arizona. What's the potential deal with Arizona? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 23 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yep forgot him, and I've already made my mind up that he's going to arizona. FTG, That place is a plague. Can't see them doing that to ol' Tan-man. Drive up a bidding-war, with teams like TO, Philly, Bos & NYI. He'll head East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 18 hours ago, Provost said: I mentioned it in another thread, but I REALLY think that this is a key opportunity to wickedly improve our depth. Prices for guys will be seriously depressed because lots of teams will be looking to unload a player or two to avoid losing them for nothing. Players who would command a 2nd round pick plus a prospect may only be worth a later pick or a B level AHL prospect who doesn't need to be exposed. It completely makes sense for a team like ours to go in the opposite direction and trade for several of those players, knowing they will lose only one and still have greatly improved depth. It also serves to help protect one of your own players or giving them away for little return. Players better than Granlund and Baertschi were (when we traded for them) may suddenly be available for a 4th round pick or a prospect who is probably never going to be an NHL regular. After the draft you can even move someone at a higher price as teams try to re-stock. Guess it's the contrarian's route, & a worthwhile consideration. Most of these GM's seem more conservative by the day..have to see how this plays out. As Linden offered, keep the cards close to the vest & only accept a deal that makes sense from every angle. Least I hope that's what they stick to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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