TL: No situation where we mortgage future to make playoff push

[blackpluto96]

1 hour ago, Bovechkin said:

I think this is the argument at the end of the day :

If we can't trade Edler (he doesn't waive NTC), then who would you rather expose? If our contender window is in ~3 years, by then Edler will be significantly older and presumably not the same hockey player. At the same time Sbisa is improving and in ~3 years can very well be equal or better than Edler.

 

If Edler is down to waive the NTC then it's a whole different dilemma....

If we can't trade Edler or Sbisa for a good return, then I'd expose Sbisa.  We are not contenders in ~3 years, OJ not ready, BB not ready, TD not ready.  Edler is a work horse and eats up the big minutes and can shelter the young D coming in for the next few years. Sbisa is easier to replace in my opinion. Just my two cents.

 

I do put a lot of weight on the minutes being eaten up by D. You can have all the stats and awesome play when playing 15-18 minutes but once you go above 20-25 minutes, it's a whole different ball game.

[oldnews]

14 minutes ago, blackpluto96 said:

You are not wrong. I think Edler with his level of play and contribution, is not a bad deal at $5M for the next two years, and he's not that old at 30 right now. Of course it's an unknown whether Sbisa can handle the big minutes at the level he's progressing, but for me, Edler is proven and less of a risk to handle the big minutes in the next two years with all the new faces coming in, who all need sheltering.  I just have a hard time giving up this high minute #2/3 guy in the current situation, for free. I think Sbisa is easier to replace.

This is an interesting point.  I'm not sure how much sheltering the bulk of them will need, but that is a positive that Edler has - the ability to carry a pairing with a young guy.

I do think that between Tanev, Sbisa, Gud, Hutton there's not a great deal but a reasonable amount of experience - I guess it will come down in part to whether they value the impact of the first year or two of benefit of keeping Edler, or whether they're looking to the longer term.  I aslo think Sbisa's been playing enough this year (and last) - and a fair amount of it stepping up to bigger minutes than perhaps anticipated - to get a pretty good idea of how much he's progressed.  I like Edler a lot and always have - so for me this is in issue of how good Sbisa has become.  I've liked his potential, but I've also been quite surprised by his progress - that, as opposed to underestimating Edler - which I think  a lot of people do - is what makes it a difficult decision imo.

[mll]

1 hour ago, terrible.dee said:

Mc Phee is a world Class A$$^%le who LOVES to goon it up, and every expansion team knows the fighters are the most popular players for the first few years, he will be taking a few goons, Dorsett has the "small guy with big heart" built in storyline, which new fans can connect with.

 

From a marketing standpoint, Dorsett will sell tickets, I say Mc Phee takes him if he's available

He wants to build a team like the Penguins, Chicago or Tampa - skilled high pace offensive hockey.  Don't see them wanting Dorsett.

[oldnews]

18 minutes ago, blackpluto96 said:

If we can't trade Edler or Sbisa for a good return, then I'd expose Sbisa.  We are not contenders in ~3 years, OJ not ready, BB not ready, TD not ready.  Edler is a work horse and eats up the big minutes and can shelter the young D coming in for the next few years. Sbisa is easier to replace in my opinion. Just my two cents.

 

I do put a lot of weight on the minutes being eaten up by D. You can have all the stats and awesome play when playing 15-18 minutes but once you go above 20-25 minutes, it's a whole different ball game.

Sbisa has been over 20 minutes the majority of the past 30 games (17 times - and another 5 games between 19 and 20 minutes) - 22 times in the past 29 games - with only 3 of them under the 18 minute mark - so I think they're starting to get more of a sample of what he's capable of playing relatively big minutes.  Another 30+ games and it's hard to say what they'll think going into the summer/expansion.

 

One thing that's interesting to consider is the alternative / possibility that they can cut a deal with LV to avoid either of them from being selected.

[manroth19]

I think the one thing people aren't talking about this coming expansion draft which I very much think will happen. I could see vegas trading a lot of the guys they draft(expansion) back to their teams for draft picks. Could end up with just a boatload of pics. Imagine a scenario where they pick up a 3rd by trading sbiza back to us and a 2nd from scandella a 2nd from somewhere else etc etc. They could have a ton of pics and just splurge in free angency. I know it's not gonna happen but I could definitely see a scenario where they draft (expansion) 12+ dman and obv you ain't going into the season with that many on the back end. They're could be an absolute ton of action coming from vegas

[-AJ-]

I'm happy with this. The team is moving in the right direction and while I do want to make the playoffs, I in no way want to sacrifice the future to do so. I'm also loving the strategy of having a young core with some wise older veterans to guide them along the way. I believe this plan will work well and we will see results in the next couple of years with strong playoff teams.

[Iggynucks]

53 minutes ago, Baggins said:

You may want to take a look at Hutton's giveaways.

Haha yes. Hutton's sophomore slump is much easier to forgive given his age and experience though.

[Ghostsof1915]

Why is it that folks think Benning is going to go "all in" for a playoff push? 

 

Has he a history of giving away picks for rentals? No.

Has he a history of trading players for rentals to try and get picks? Again no. 

 

Sounds to me a lot Chicken Little's are in the media. 

[kanucks25]

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Why is it that folks think Benning is going to go "all in" for a playoff push? 

 

Has he a history of giving away picks for rentals? No.

Has he a history of trading players for rentals to try and get picks? Again no. 

 

Sounds to me a lot Chicken Little's are in the media. 

No, but he has a history of trading away draft picks in general. So far, since he's been the Canucks GM, he's traded more picks than he's acquired even though he inherited a bunch of older but still valuable (in the trade market) assets.

 

He also showed last year that he's willing to sit on his hands at the deadline and let free-agents walk away for nothing.

 

It was quite the disastrous trade deadline and some are afraid of a repeat.

[Sorry, did I Sutter?]

1 hour ago, blackpluto96 said:

If we can't trade Edler or Sbisa for a good return, then I'd expose Sbisa.  We are not contenders in ~3 years, OJ not ready, BB not ready, TD not ready.  Edler is a work horse and eats up the big minutes and can shelter the young D coming in for the next few years. Sbisa is easier to replace in my opinion. Just my two cents.

 

I do put a lot of weight on the minutes being eaten up by D. You can have all the stats and awesome play when playing 15-18 minutes but once you go above 20-25 minutes, it's a whole different ball game.

Sorry if I missed something but I know who OJ and BB are but who is TD?

Trevor Daley? That man is ready, for him his career is now or never!

[Sorry, did I Sutter?]

Thatcher Demko...

 

[LaBamba]

I want an exceptional drafting GM to go to each draft with all of his picks and hopefully more. I'm not sure if it's an ownership thing or just a odd coincidence but I honestly can't recall a situation where we have ever sold a player for a pick at the trade deadline of any significance. Why does everyone always expect the opposite every year? 

[blackpluto96]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

This is an interesting point.  I'm not sure how much sheltering the bulk of them will need, but that is a positive that Edler has - the ability to carry a pairing with a young guy.

I do think that between Tanev, Sbisa, Gud, Hutton there's not a great deal but a reasonable amount of experience - I guess it will come down in part to whether they value the impact of the first year or two of benefit of keeping Edler, or whether they're looking to the longer term.  I aslo think Sbisa's been playing enough this year (and last) - and a fair amount of it stepping up to bigger minutes than perhaps anticipated - to get a pretty good idea of how much he's progressed.  I like Edler a lot and always have - so for me this is in issue of how good Sbisa has become.  I've liked his potential, but I've also been quite surprised by his progress - that, as opposed to underestimating Edler - which I think  a lot of people do - is what makes it a difficult decision imo.

 

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Sbisa has been over 20 minutes the majority of the past 30 games (17 times - and another 5 games between 19 and 20 minutes) - 22 times in the past 29 games - with only 3 of them under the 18 minute mark - so I think they're starting to get more of a sample of what he's capable of playing relatively big minutes.  Another 30+ games and it's hard to say what they'll think going into the summer/expansion.

 

One thing that's interesting to consider is the alternative / possibility that they can cut a deal with LV to avoid either of them from being selected.

Like you, I've been pleasantly surprised by the progress Sbisa has made this season and also the second half of last season when our top four all went down. I've always been a fan of him. I guess I'm just a little conservative in taking the risk of moving a top 2/3 without a replacement properly vetted and proven. It's good Sbisa's minutes are increasing steadily and he's handling it well, I just wish expansion draft is one more year down the road. Edler has done a really good job bringing along Stecher this season, on a first paring without the whole thing exploding (actually with decent possession). He's also the only one, until Hutton matures and proves himself more, that has a similar styling to mentor OJ. He may not have the physical tools or consistency to pull it off like he did during his prime but he knows the fundamentals of a two-way puck-moving D and how to do it in the NHL. That would be a tremendous asset for OJ's development once he's on the team.

 

Of course, if we can cut a deal and keep both, I'll be more than thrilled. So my order of sacrificial lambs to Sin City: Dorsette < Hansen < Granny < Baer < Sbisa < Edler. I just included the most obvious and the two D we've been talking about.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Iggynucks said:

Haha yes. Hutton's sophomore slump is much easier to forgive given his age and experience though.

Well you did say Edler was worst on the team for giveaways. He's actually 5th in giveaways among the D with Hutton the worst followed by Sbisa. Considering Edler does a great deal of the heavy lifting there's little to complain about in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

[teepain]

6 hours ago, bohoforpresident said:

Found these pictures on edler's pinterest. These are a few of the tables he's made so far this year using only his own broken hockey sticks.

These tables look cool , edler probably has built a house by now haha

[Ossi Vaananen]

 

I'm hoping we move up 2 rows shortly.

 

I'm good with staying the course. JB managed to refill our prospect pool and completely rebuild the blueline in his 2.5 years here. Our forwards are coming along nicely, and it's looking the Granlund/Baertschi pickups could prove to be core pieces. Another solid draft, and some guys from college turning pro and we're well on our way to becoming a perennial playoff team.

 

 

 

[Iggynucks]

49 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Well you did say Edler was worst on the team for giveaways. He's actually 5th in giveaways among the D with Hutton the worst followed by Sbisa. Considering Edler does a great deal of the heavy lifting there's little to complain about in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know where you're finding the giveaway stats but all I know is I find myself saying "nooooo" while watching a game when Edler turns the puck over. I don't find myself doing that with Sbisa nearly as much. Maybe Edler's turnovers seem to lead to glorious scoring opportunities so often that I notice them more. I agree that being able to eat up minutes is valuable. It's a tough decision that is made tougher by the fact that there are no realistic for a top 4 minute eater in free agency (maybe Alzner).

 

On a side note, I doubt he would sign here but I would do everything I could to sign Shattenkirk. He's a legitimate #1 - 2 defenceman. Freeing up $5 million would go a long ways to being able to offer the kind of money needed to sign a player of his calibre.

[Baggins]

13 minutes ago, Iggynucks said:

I don't know where you're finding the giveaway stats but all I know is I find myself saying "nooooo" while watching a game when Edler turns the puck over. I don't find myself doing that with Sbisa nearly as much. Maybe Edler's turnovers seem to lead to glorious scoring opportunities so often that I notice them more. I agree that being able to eat up minutes is valuable. It's a tough decision that is made tougher by the fact that there are no realistic for a top 4 minute eater in free agency (maybe Alzner).

 

On a side note, I doubt he would sign here but I would do everything I could to sign Shattenkirk. He's a legitimate #1 - 2 defenceman. Freeing up $5 million would go a long ways to being able to offer the kind of money needed to sign a player of his calibre.

I find that when a person has a negative outlook towards a player they tend to notice their mistakes more.

 

Here's the NHL stats:

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=realtime&teamId=23&pos=D&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20162017&seasonTo=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=giveaways

[Iggynucks]

16 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I find that when a person has a negative outlook towards a player they tend to notice their mistakes more.

 

Here's the NHL stats:

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=realtime&teamId=23&pos=D&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20162017&seasonTo=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=giveaways

As I've stated before, I use to absolutely love Edler. Everyone was so optimistic about Bourdon but I was always talking up Edler. I don't seek to be negative towards our players. I don't root for our players do poorly but his play has declined so much over the previous few seasons that I can't ignore it. In my opinion it's time to move on.

 

[Drakrami]

10 hours ago, Iggynucks said:

I don't know why everyone assumes that Edler will be protected in the expansion draft. It would be the perfect opportunity to rid themselves the poor contract of a player on a steady decline. My protection list would be : Henrik, Daniel, Eriksson, Horvat, Sutter, Baertschi, Hansen/Granlund, Tanev, Gudbransson, and Sbisa.

Edler is gonna be scooped up if you don't protect him. 5million/year for a serviceable #2 defenseman is a good choice for Vegas. 

 

What's Edler's worth to us? He is seen as our best defenseman and also easily worth a first round pick at the trade deadline, may be next year. So this is why we are protecting Edler.