Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW

[CanuckleHorse]

31 minutes ago, stawns said:

It's got nothing to do with Vancouver, it's every team now.  If you can't play a solid two way game, you're not going to play in the NHL.  

On point the reason I compared him to Alex the great Mogilny is he has that elite skill set he needs the hunger to want that puck the need to have the puck on his stick every time he's on the ice he needs to pursue it like his life depends on it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by CanuckleHorse

[dpn1]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

His time in the AHL was definitely well spent and a big part of that, from what I've read, was getting His 200ft game to the point where its, at least, passable at the NHL level.

 

Thats why I don't get why people automatically go on the attack at the mere mention of Boeser starting the year in Utica developing his overall game.  For a young player, the AHL should be seen as a positive step toward a long NHL career, not a demotion.

I totally agree.  Thinking that BB or NG would benifit from time in Utica isn't a put down.  Just wanting the very best for their development so they can be even better than they are now.  Utica looks like they could have a better team than ever.  Making for a real positive experience for the guys playing there.  I know if asked, they would say they would rather be on a poor team in the NHL than a good one in the AHL but would it not be better for them in the long run to be in the AHL on a good team when they are younger?  I know when I was that age I would have said the NHL but I would have been wrong.  The AHL would have been the right choice.  Its just harder to make the right choice with out the benifit of experience.

[E. Lindros]

When he was in utica, green seemed to use him and he showed his skill. Hopefully that made an impression and green as our coach now will allow that.

 

Any utica insight as to what green thought of goldys time doen their?

[canucksnihilist]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

It's got nothing to do with Vancouver, it's every team now.  If you can't play a solid two way game, you're not going to play in the NHL.  

 No I think a lot of teams give players opportunity based on their future role....

[Salmonberries]

I'd say he's probably one more demotion to the AHL away from going back to the KHL,. I hope it doesn't happen .

[JamesB]

49 minutes ago, Salmonberries said:

I'd say he's probably one more demotion to the AHL away from going back to the KHL,. I hope it doesn't happen .

Good call. I have the same concern. Goldy has been playing in North America since he turned 17, though, so he may like it here more than Russia by now. Still, I think the Canucks need to give him a long look this fall. After all, he has played very well in the AHL, although I know there are some concerns about his defence. Still, he was close to a point a game in the AHL last year and was +6. If, for example, Virtanen gets a spot on the Canucks ahead of him after posting a PPG of 0.29 in the AHL last year, he might be unhappy. I realize that Goldy is a very different kind of player and does not have the same physical game as Virtanen, but I think it is still an issue. If Goldobin starts with the Canucks and things don't go well, then I would see no problem with a demotion to Utica and maybe bringing Virtanen up. 

[Grape]

1 hour ago, Salmonberries said:

I'd say he's probably one more demotion to the AHL away from going back to the KHL,. I hope it doesn't happen .

Doubt it. I'm pretty sure he loves being in North America and with North American people and culture from what I've seen and heard. 

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, JamesB said:

Good call. I have the same concern. Goldy has been playing in North America since he turned 17, though, so he may like it here more than Russia by now. Still, I think the Canucks need to give him a long look this fall. After all, he has played very well in the AHL, although I know there are some concerns about his defence. Still, he was close to a point a game in the AHL last year and was +6. If, for example, Virtanen gets a spot on the Canucks ahead of him after posting a PPG of 0.29 in the AHL last year, he might be unhappy. I realize that Goldy is a very different kind of player and does not have the same physical game as Virtanen, but I think it is still an issue. If Goldobin starts with the Canucks and things don't go well, then I would see no problem with a demotion to Utica and maybe bringing Virtanen up. 

It's not about his 'defense' per se (though that could always improve), it's his battle level, puck pursuit, pace and general play away from the puck he needs to work on. Not dissimilar issues to which Virtanen worked on in Utica last year actually.

 

If Virtanen's earned a spot over NG, it's because he took those lessons to heart and has integrated them in to his game. All the offensive skill in the world isn't going to get NG an NHL job if he doesn't improve those things. Things which are fundamental to him not only being an NHL'er but actually a FAR better offensive player as well.

Edited July 23, 2017 by J.R.

[canucksnihilist]

Chaput and Megna say hello... and dash the chances of Virtanen and Goldy....   muhahaha. We will build an evil empire, errr... team... to crush the hopes of childish vancouver fans looking for entertainment

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said:

Chaput and Megna say hello... and dash the chances of Virtanen and Goldy....   muhahaha. We will build an evil empire, errr... team... to crush the hopes of childish vancouver fans looking for entertainment

If anything I'd wager Boeser, Gagner, Burmistrov etc say hello.

 

Goldy is not competing with the likes of Chaput or Megna for a spot. Though Gaunce should be looking over his shoulder as Chaput stands a chance of taking HIS spot.

[Rob_Zepp]

11 hours ago, JamesB said:

Good call. I have the same concern. Goldy has been playing in North America since he turned 17, though, so he may like it here more than Russia by now. Still, I think the Canucks need to give him a long look this fall. After all, he has played very well in the AHL, although I know there are some concerns about his defence. Still, he was close to a point a game in the AHL last year and was +6. If, for example, Virtanen gets a spot on the Canucks ahead of him after posting a PPG of 0.29 in the AHL last year, he might be unhappy. I realize that Goldy is a very different kind of player and does not have the same physical game as Virtanen, but I think it is still an issue. If Goldobin starts with the Canucks and things don't go well, then I would see no problem with a demotion to Utica and maybe bringing Virtanen up. 

He and Virtanen are not competing for same type of spots in line up.   If Virtanen is going to have a successful NHL career it isn't going to be based upon points alone or even all that important - his speed and heavy game for creating space for other players LIKE the Goldobins of the world is where his path lays whereas if Goldobin isn't taking advantage of space that develops and using that to score/create chances then he is not going to be in the NHL.    If he is basing his happiness on an incorrect comparison, and I doubt he will unlike some fans, he will be concentrating on the exact wrong things in terms of making it in the NHL.   If he instead doesn't worry about anything other than his own game, he should be fine.

[bobbyg43]

39 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He and Virtanen are not competing for same type of spots in line up.   If Virtanen is going to have a successful NHL career it isn't going to be based upon points alone or even all that important - his speed and heavy game for creating space for other players LIKE the Goldobins of the world is where his path lays whereas if Goldobin isn't taking advantage of space that develops and using that to score/create chances then he is not going to be in the NHL.    If he is basing his happiness on an incorrect comparison, and I doubt he will unlike some fans, he will be concentrating on the exact wrong things in terms of making it in the NHL.   If he instead doesn't worry about anything other than his own game, he should be fine.

These windows for the said players is now open this An next year to be sure is time for them to rise up.I believe both players will rise to the occasion, this is potentially the start of a 18 month make or break for both . Goldy was traded so a team basically cut him loose at TDL . He knows what he has to do. As for Jake his window might be 2 years yet so don't see urgency to pull him back up this season, one more campaign in AHLto hone his game would not disappoint me.

 

It is much more gratifying as a fan to know we have this talent pool with potential to be impact players of the future.

 

[JamesB]

16 hours ago, J.R. said:

It's not about his 'defense' per se (though that could always improve), it's his battle level, puck pursuit, pace and general play away from the puck he needs to work on. Not dissimilar issues to which Virtanen worked on in Utica last year actually.

 

If Virtanen's earned a spot over NG, it's because he took those lessons to heart and has integrated them in to his game. All the offensive skill in the world isn't going to get NG an NHL job if he doesn't improve those things. Things which are fundamental to him not only being an NHL'er but actually a FAR better offensive player as well.

I think of these factors (battle level, puck pursuit, pace, play away from the puck) as either "intensity" or "energy", which also includes a willingness to contribute to the physical game. And for players who rely on intensity, it is important to be consistent. Having one high intensity shift followed by a passenger shift is not good enough.

 

Guys who can play with consistent intensity can become legitimate NHL players even if they do not have a high skill level, like Dorsett has.

 

It would be nice if Goldy did play with more intensity, but I don't think that will ever be his strength. His strength is skating and skill with the puck. I think he is a classic "scoring forward or nothing" kind of player. To see if he can be valuable at the NHL level he needs to play with a center who is capable of playing a skill game -- maybe Gagner, for example. If there is a developmental model for Goldobin, I would think it would be someone like Baertschi, who has improved his intensity and his defensive game, but who relies primarily on being a high skill scoring forward.

 

12 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He and Virtanen are not competing for same type of spots in line up.   If Virtanen is going to have a successful NHL career it isn't going to be based upon points alone or even all that important - his speed and heavy game for creating space for other players LIKE the Goldobins of the world is where his path lays whereas if Goldobin isn't taking advantage of space that develops and using that to score/create chances then he is not going to be in the NHL.    If he is basing his happiness on an incorrect comparison, and I doubt he will unlike some fans, he will be concentrating on the exact wrong things in terms of making it in the NHL.   If he instead doesn't worry about anything other than his own game, he should be fine.

It is true that Virtanen and Goldy are very different players. Virtanen does have the attributes to be a high intensity traditional 4th liner, although he needs to bring that intensity on a consistent basis.

 

That said, I think JV and Goldobin are competing with each other (and a lot of other guys) at soem level because nowadays there is more flexibility in how teams are structured.  A few years ago a 4th line was always an "energy line" consisting of guys who could play a high intensity physical game and at least one guy who was the "designated tough guy".

 

However, nowadays teams are also willing to consider playing a 4th line with more skill and less toughness. Teams still want some toughness, but a 4th line of Gagner, Goldobin, and Dorsett would not be crazy. A more conventional 4th line with maybe Virtanen, Gaunce and Dorsett is also possible, as are many other possible combinations.

 

But I think that are a lot of reasonable options in camp this year, not like the recent past when the make-up of the team was a pretty much a foregone conclusion.

 

[cyoung]

On 22/07/2017 at 2:15 PM, CanuckleHorse said:

On point the reason I compared him to Alex the great Mogilny is he has that elite skill set he needs the hunger to want that puck the need to have the puck on his stick every time he's on the ice he needs to pursue it like his life depends on it.

Lack of punctuation killed me. 

[Rob_Zepp]

6 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

It is true that Virtanen and Goldy are very different players. Virtanen does have the attributes to be a high intensity traditional 4th liner, although he needs to bring that intensity on a consistent basis.

 

That said, I think JV and Goldobin are competing with each other (and a lot of other guys) at soem level because nowadays there is more flexibility in how teams are structured.  A few years ago a 4th line was always an "energy line" consisting of guys who could play a high intensity physical game and at least one guy who was the "designated tough guy".

 

However, nowadays teams are also willing to consider playing a 4th line with more skill and less toughness. Teams still want some toughness, but a 4th line of Gagner, Goldobin, and Dorsett would not be crazy. A more conventional 4th line with maybe Virtanen, Gaunce and Dorsett is also possible, as are many other possible combinations.

 

But I think that are a lot of reasonable options in camp this year, not like the recent past when the make-up of the team was a pretty much a foregone conclusion.

 

Virtanen actually has all the attributes to be a solid 2nd or 1st line player in the NHL.   Whether he exploits those attributes or not time will tell but he is far more talented than a "high intensity 4th liner".   If all that was in Vancouver for JV was 4th line, he is better served in Utica or being traded.   

[Rob_Zepp]

19 hours ago, canucksnihilist said:

Chaput and Megna say hello... and dash the chances of Virtanen and Goldy....   muhahaha. We will build an evil empire, errr... team... to crush the hopes of childish vancouver fans looking for entertainment

Comparing Chaput with Megna is unfair as totally different players.   Chaput seems to have a far higher ceiling who was becoming a PPG player at AHL level and was essentially that in CHL - he has some reasonable offensive pedigree.   Megna is a bit more of a mixed bag with lesser wheels.

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, JamesB said:

I think of these factors (battle level, puck pursuit, pace, play away from the puck) as either "intensity" or "energy", which also includes a willingness to contribute to the physical game. And for players who rely on intensity, it is important to be consistent. Having one high intensity shift followed by a passenger shift is not good enough.

 

Guys who can play with consistent intensity can become legitimate NHL players even if they do not have a high skill level, like Dorsett has.

 

It would be nice if Goldy did play with more intensity, but I don't think that will ever be his strength. His strength is skating and skill with the puck. I think he is a classic "scoring forward or nothing" kind of player. To see if he can be valuable at the NHL level he needs to play with a center who is capable of playing a skill game -- maybe Gagner, for example. If there is a developmental model for Goldobin, I would think it would be someone like Baertschi, who has improved his intensity and his defensive game, but who relies primarily on being a high skill scoring forward.

 

It is true that Virtanen and Goldy are very different players. Virtanen does have the attributes to be a high intensity traditional 4th liner, although he needs to bring that intensity on a consistent basis.

 

That said, I think JV and Goldobin are competing with each other (and a lot of other guys) at soem level because nowadays there is more flexibility in how teams are structured.  A few years ago a 4th line was always an "energy line" consisting of guys who could play a high intensity physical game and at least one guy who was the "designated tough guy".

 

However, nowadays teams are also willing to consider playing a 4th line with more skill and less toughness. Teams still want some toughness, but a 4th line of Gagner, Goldobin, and Dorsett would not be crazy. A more conventional 4th line with maybe Virtanen, Gaunce and Dorsett is also possible, as are many other possible combinations.

 

But I think that are a lot of reasonable options in camp this year, not like the recent past when the make-up of the team was a pretty much a foregone conclusion.

 

Unless you're a generational player with the last name Ovechkin, you can't be a 'scoring forward or nothing'. And even Ovie has had to learn to work a bit harder than he used to.

 

Never mind that that added 'intensity' would help NG be a better 'scoring forward'.

 

I'm with Zepp on Virtanen as well. If a 'traditional', sub 8 minute, 4th line 'energy' role is all that we have room for here, he's better served in a larger, offensive role in Utica. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Goldy reminds me a lot of Baertschi earlier with the canucks.  Both guys look energetic when they have the puck and unmotivated when they don’t.  Players like him need confidence and they just need to be allowed to play their own game.  They’ve dominated every league they have ever played in, the skill is there we just need them to feel comfortable.  Good on WD for finally giving him a confidence boost with his time with the twins last season and PP time.  That’s exactly what it takes, once they realize they can play in this league, the confidence, the energy and the compete all increase. 

 

As much as people don’t want to hear it, not all players develop the same way, some players need to be catered to.  It might seem unfair but the end result becomes a high skilled player, that contributes to this team offensively.  Something this team desperately needs, an exciting offensive minded forward.   

[hyper00]

3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Goldy reminds me a lot of Baertschi earlier with the canucks.  Both guys look energetic when they have the puck and unmotivated when they don’t.  Players like him need confidence and they just need to be allowed to play their own game.  They’ve dominated every league they have ever played in, the skill is there we just need them to feel comfortable.  Good on WD for finally giving him a confidence boost with his time with the twins last season and PP time.  That’s exactly what it takes, once they realize they can play in this league, the confidence, the energy and the compete all increase. 

 

As much as people don’t want to hear it, not all players develop the same way, some players need to be catered to.  It might seem unfair but the end result becomes a high skilled player, that contributes to this team offensively.  Something this team desperately needs, an exciting offensive minded forward.   

That's pretty much it, not every prospect is going to work their way up the lineup in the NHL, who'll play with your bottom 6 grinders to learn the defensive side(Though it does help when you have quality guys on your line, very happy with Dorsett and Sutter) but these skilled players need to be utilized well, and it doesn't matter how old the Sedins have become all that matters is they know what it takes to give these kids the ability to dominate the NHL. So stick these players in their roles, the AHL exists for that exact reason.

[canucksnihilist]

7 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Comparing Chaput with Megna is unfair as totally different players.   Chaput seems to have a far higher ceiling who was becoming a PPG player at AHL level and was essentially that in CHL - he has some reasonable offensive pedigree.   Megna is a bit more of a mixed bag with lesser wheels.

I was trying to be funny...  I'll assume I failed!