Patrick Kane Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 48 minutes ago, DoughtysCheck said: I don't think he plays next season. I think Koekkoek plays before serg. Still have Hedman, Stralman, Garrison, Coburn, Sustr, DeAngelo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoosh Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Huge deal Montreal! Wish we were on the receiving end of this trade with Tampa but no can do. Big jackpot for both teams. Jope we can get something like this dine in the future too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, PassittoBoeser said: 100% As I said it's showing what the market value of Dmen is in the league and many here underestimate Tanev's value Larson for Hall Sergachev for Drouin That's sets a pretty obvious market for someone who's on a great money ball contract, is top 5 in advanced def stats in the NHL and is only 26 AND is a NATURAL RD which are hard to find As I said if Toronto wants to Talk, its not Carrick, Leipsic and a 2nd, its Nylander or the click on the phone (clearly TO won't do it, but that trade suggestion out there is bs if you look at the market). Pundits think the Canucks will just 'give up' players because they are rebuilding, no, JB understands he has a valuable chip here and won't give it away, which is good. there is no way many people on CDC undervalue Tanev. Have you seen the average expectation? It's sky high. Too high IMO. You are comparing Tanev to younger dmen who were picked a lot higher than him. The upside for Serg and Larsson is huge. Some dmen don't come into their own until their late 20s. Teams know what they are getting with Tanev. His upside is less high. I think a much better comparable to Tanev would be Travis Hamonic....a guy with great underlying numbers who wanted out from the isles for personal reasons. A deal never got done....probably because teams weren't willing to pony up the return the isles expected. I think we will have a similar problem with Tanev. As such, I would not be surprised if Tanev never gets traded from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Crosby Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 love the trade from Montreal's perspective but I think the cap flexibility TB got has made them happy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassittoBoeser Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, cdubuya said: there is no way many people on CDC undervalue Tanev. Have you seen the average expectation? It's sky high. Too high IMO. You are comparing Tanev to younger dmen who were picked a lot higher than him. The upside for Serg and Larsson is huge. Some dmen don't come into their own until their late 20s. Teams know what they are getting with Tanev. His upside is less high. I think a much better comparable to Tanev would be Travis Hamonic....a guy with great underlying numbers who wanted out from the isles for personal reasons. A deal never got done....probably because teams weren't willing to pony up the return the isles expected. I think we will have a similar problem with Tanev. As such, I would not be surprised if Tanev never gets traded from here. I am comparing a top 5 PROVEN Defensive DMan in the NHL vs what is currently a prospect in Sergachev, where you're picked means Jack. Cody Hodgson was picked higher than Tanev, so is Hodgson better? (btw, Tanev wasn't even drafted). Where you are drafted means zero once you are in the NHL. Pavel Dasyuk was taken in the 6th or 7th round, is Sergachev going to be more impactful? That argument is baseless, production matters not draft position. Tanev's value is on par with Larson, this deal shows it and defensive defeseman who can cover for a guy who plays loosey goosey offense are actually MORE coveted since playing defense is actually harder and its quite easy to find offensive dmen that cant stop pucks from going into their own net. Let's also not ignore he's a natural RD which are very hard to find. Tanev's value is immense sir, you don't actually get it. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I don't see how this trade has anything to do with Tanev. Sergachev and Tanev are two players in completely different phases of their career. Sergachev's value is mostly potential at this point. Tampa is betting that he can be a top pairing defenseman or even a #1 some day. The point is that Tanev and Sergachev could not be more different. This trade does show us what Juolevi might be worth though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, cdubuya said: there is no way many people on CDC undervalue Tanev. Have you seen the average expectation? It's sky high. Too high IMO. You are comparing Tanev to younger dmen who were picked a lot higher than him. The upside for Serg and Larsson is huge. Some dmen don't come into their own until their late 20s. Teams know what they are getting with Tanev. His upside is less high. I think a much better comparable to Tanev would be Travis Hamonic....a guy with great underlying numbers who wanted out from the isles for personal reasons. A deal never got done....probably because teams weren't willing to pony up the return the isles expected. I think we will have a similar problem with Tanev. As such, I would not be surprised if Tanev never gets traded from here. Tanev was never picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, PassittoBoeser said: I am comparing a top 5 PROVEN Defensive DMan in the NHL vs what is currently a prospect in Sergachev, where you're picked means Jack. Cody Hodgson was picked higher than Tanev, so is Hodgson better (btw, Tanev wasn't even drafted). Tanev's value is on par with Larson, this deal shows it and defensive defeseman who can cover for a guy who plays loosey goosey offense are actually MORE coveted since playing defense is actually harder and its quite easy to find offensive dmen that cant stop pucks from going into their own net. Tanev's value is immense sir, you don't actually get it. Sorry Hamonic's value was also immense. He never got traded. You missed my point entirely. I understand that where you are drafted means dick all in the grand scheme of things. That doesn't mean that team's don't pay premiums for potential. Your two examples of trade return were the 4th overall pick in the 2011 draft and the 9th overall pick in the 2016 draft. Teams are paying a significant premium for the raw potential that both these picks offered. Chris Tanev doesn't offer that same kind of raw potential. Sure, he has proven shutdown ability, and sure the fact that he went undrafted has nothing to do with his current value. I get that completely., But when you start comparing his value to that of Larsson and Sergachev you clearly are comparing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, thejazz97 said: I'm pretty sure @-Vintage Canuck- works in the NHL transactions department. It's the only explanation. That's Sir VC, to you lad. He's been knighted & granted a liscense to thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'd be furious if the Canucks had dealt Juolevi and a conditional 2nd for this arrogant, one-dimensional winger. Yzerman lands Sergachev, is able to protect Namestnikov, and likely winds up with a 2nd in addition. Not to mention the cap flexibility and the value of a high end D ELC. The Habs get a shiny me-first winger, lose their best D prospect (and likely a pick) and probably wind up exposing a player like Byron as a result (who scored 43 pts for 1.2 million). Really not a fan of this move for the Habs. Don't think Bergevin realized or utilized his leverage here. Drouin is the most over-rated flavour of the week asset in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Would've hoped for a Hutton ++ deal but I wouldn't want to trade away juolevi out cest la vie drouin in Montreal will be interesting to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said: Tanev was never picked. thanks tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 minute ago, cdubuya said: thanks tips Don't like being corrected? Don't talk out of your ass. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassittoBoeser Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, cdubuya said: Hamonic's value was also immense. He never got traded. You missed my point entirely. I understand that where you are drafted means dick all in the grand scheme of things. That doesn't mean that team's don't pay premiums for potential. Your two examples of trade return were the 4th overall pick in the 2011 draft and the 9th overall pick in the 2016 draft. Teams are paying a significant premium for the raw potential that both these picks offered. Chris Tanev doesn't offer that same kind of raw potential. Sure, he has proven shutdown ability, and sure the fact that he went undrafted has nothing to do with his current value. I get that completely., But when you start comparing his value to that of Larsson and Sergachev you clearly are comparing apples and oranges. They are goalposts - if you read what I said, I said it shows a market for dmen and Tanev is = Larson That being said, the Sergachev trade shows, that dmen are valued highly that is CLEAR, if raw potential is valued that highly, well clearly proven talent has as much or better value given the Larson trade and the fact that many teams want proven talent that is still young (26) on a good contract if they are in their window or just entering it. It really does depend on the partner Hopefully you understand the point now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said: Hopefully this starts a trend of trades that make sense. Now its time for Tanev to go to Dallas for the #3oa. Time for a Subban for Weber BLOCKBUSTER!!! Jordan fer Yannick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, PassittoBoeser said: I am comparing a top 5 PROVEN Defensive DMan in the NHL vs what is currently a prospect in Sergachev, where you're picked means Jack. Cody Hodgson was picked higher than Tanev, so is Hodgson better? (btw, Tanev wasn't even drafted). Where you are drafted means zero once you are in the NHL. Pavel Dasyuk was taken in the 6th or 7th round, is Sergachev going to be more impactful? That argument is baseless, production matters not draft position. Tanev's value is on par with Larson, this deal shows it and defensive defeseman who can cover for a guy who plays loosey goosey offense are actually MORE coveted since playing defense is actually harder and its quite easy to find offensive dmen that cant stop pucks from going into their own net. Let's also not ignore he's a natural RD which are very hard to find. Tanev's value is immense sir, you don't actually get it. Sorry Seth Jones (21) - Ryan Johansen (23) Adam Larsson (23) - Taylor Hall (24) Mikhail Sergachev (18) - Jonathan Drouin (22) What do all these trades have in common? All of them involve a younger defenseman who hasn't fulfilled his potential for a young more proven forward. This does show that defenseman are worth more but as you can see with the ages of these players, they are all young. Nobody is going to move young players like Nylander/Reinhart for Tanev. They would more likely be willing to move those guys for Juolevi than Tanev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassittoBoeser Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: I'd be furious if the Canucks had dealt Juolevi and a conditional 2nd for this arrogant, one-dimensional winger. Yzerman lands Sergachev, is able to protect Namestnikov, and likely winds up with a 2nd in addition. The Habs get a shiny me-first winger, lose their best D prospect (and likely a pick) and probably wind up exposing a player like Byron as a result (who scored 43 pts for 1.2 million). Really not a fan of this move for the Habs. Don't think Bergevin realized or utilized his leverage here. Drouin is the most over-rated flavour of the week asset in the NHL. Habs need a dynamic offensive young talent desperately. And he's French Canadian, all the better for them. I agree his attitude is of concern and I would not want to have made the Juolevi deal either, that kid has talent AND character, a much better mix. But I get why Mtl did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said: Don't like being corrected? Don't talk out of your ass. Simple. I knew he was undrafted. I wrote as such in my following comment. If you don't understand the point I was trying to make and want to get nit picky then fine.... I have no problem with people who disagree with me. But if you want to sit on the sideline and snipe insignificant details then I don't know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassittoBoeser Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Toews said: Seth Jones (21) - Ryan Johansen (23) Adam Larsson (23) - Taylor Hall (24) Mikhail Sergachev (18) - Jonathan Drouin (22) What do all these trades have in common? All of them involve a younger defenseman who hasn't fulfilled his potential for a young more proven forward. This does show that defenseman are worth more but as you can see with the ages of these players, they are all young. Nobody is going to move young players like Nylander/Reinhart for Tanev. They would more likely be willing to move those guys for Juolevi than Tanev. Nobody hey? What's friday's lotto max numbers nostradamus? lol your hubris is hilarious. I never realized that we can't trade a 26 yr old RD for maybe a 23/24 year old. Is that in the CBA as impossible? And if you read what I said about Nylander, I said Toronto wouldn't do it. Wow the lack of reading comprehension here is frightening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, PassittoBoeser said: Nobody hey? What's friday's lotto max numbers nostradamus? lol your hubris is hilarious Its a prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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