Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[spook007]

19 hours ago, Isam said:

If they're ready they're ready. Point is we won't know till camp so why keep bringing this argument up.

True... very true. +1

 

[vannuck59]

Okay, So most of you think Pettersson is ready I get that, I'm just looking at some star Players that stayed in the SEL till Draft + 1 or 2  before coming to the NHL and by the way the AHL is not far off the NHL only a little nastier .Peter Forsberg, Henrik Zetterberg both spent more time with the SEL to mature. No doubt Pettersson  has the skill and heart Im just saying don't rush him. Shinny new toys have away loosing their luster once they get thrown in an old toy box. Management in the past have not demonstrated that they could and would protect their star players so  like  I said before we shall see.  

[Phat Fingers]

2 hours ago, khay said:

Carlson would be nice but maybe we can save up some cap space and go after Doughty in two off seasons. Doughty can very well see that LA is on the decline and I think he wants to play on a team on the rise. I guess the chance is still not very high but I prefer Doughty to Carlson although Doughty will be more expensive. We need #1D to complete the rebuild and Doughty is exactly the type that we need. And I get a sense that he and Kopitar aren't getting along too well, no strong basis for this feeling but just feels that way.

 

This is of course is assuming that we don't win #1 overall pick this season. If we do, everything changes like what Matthews did for TO's rebuild.

 

Doughty would be nice, but better the bird in then hand.  Carlson also would cost not 

near as much to sign. He is as tough as nails RHD and managed to put up a ton of points in an expanded role.   

 

Don’t think Doughty will make it to the FA period. A team with a ton of cash and assests will come in a trade for him. 

 

Depending on our draft gettting a lot tougher on defense could be required. We could be adding a few young guys to our roster next year and with only Guddy having any toughness, this team willl get messed with. That needs to be changed with the youth movement.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[cory40]

EP could come in and have a bad camp and still be ready. He started in the SHL very slow and adapted. He started the play-off slow and adapted. He is a quick study.  He is not a traditional draft pick for that matter. He is a can't miss prospect. Yeh he is only 19 so starting him with sheltered minutes is fine. But he will soon be 20. And I watched his game grow this year against men who we're out to injure him. He's not fragile. He plays a calculated game. The plays I notice about EP will take place in the NHL, He as an arsenal of plays keeps his head up and waits so many times for a defenseman or goalie to move then he reacts. Reminds me of Boeser how he finds open ice . He and Boeser would be dangerous because they both can shoot. 

[cory40]

23 hours ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

 

We're also a team at the opposite end of the cycle compared to these playoff teams it's completely unfair to compare toughness and fight ability to guys like Wheeler, Big Buff, Myers and even Scheifele for that matter. This is a team in their prime years. You have to start playing the game before you can get better at it. You don't come into the league 100% prepared for every aspect of the game. For what we're trying to accomplish here in Van in the coming years we want our kids to get exposure and develop. It's how we are eventually going to get to the next level. 

Or you could watch the Vegal LA series. LA can't keep up to vegas . Size doesn't always win or toughness.

[spook007]

3 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Okay, So most of you think Pettersson is ready I get that, I'm just looking at some star Players that stayed in the SEL till Draft + 1 or 2  before coming to the NHL and by the way the AHL is not far off the NHL only a little nastier .Peter Forsberg, Henrik Zetterberg both spent more time with the SEL to mature. No doubt Pettersson  has the skill and heart Im just saying don't rush him. Shinny new toys have away loosing their luster once they get thrown in an old toy box. Management in the past have not demonstrated that they could and would protect their star players so  like  I said before we shall see.  

Think its fair to say nobody knows, what if he is NHL ready... As a few has stated, very brightly, is we will see when trainng camp comes, where he is at... After that I am sure management will make a decision....

Everybody is aware of the dangers, but its impossible to make any sort of decision at this stage of the season.... Gym work, and a good preseason followed by training camp will show it all.

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, cory40 said:

Or you could watch the Vegal LA series. LA can't keep up to vegas . Size doesn't always win or toughness.

Gotta be tough to play in the NHL.  Gotta be super tough to succeed in the playoffs.  The game is fast, and mean.  The hits are hard, and intended to hurt.  Gotta be tough (mentally) to stay in the fight and battle.  Gotta be tough to take the hits to make plays.  Every player will be targeted, especially the ones who carry the puck the most.  Those guys need to be really mentally tough. 

[PuckFather]

On 4/14/2018 at 10:29 AM, vannuck59 said:

What I'm saying is one more year would help them both mature mentally and physically there is no rush, give them a few NHL games then send them back to mature like I said no rush.

I remember people like you also thought Boeser would need a few years in the AHL.

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, cory40 said:

Or you could watch the Vegal LA series. LA can't keep up to vegas . Size doesn't always win or toughness.

Half a billion dollars buys you a team with so much depth. LVK have bought a team... their depth is disgusting. The best that money can buy. 

 

They may lack the top all

star players that other clubs have but having 4 second lines, three top four d pairings and 2 starting goalies is a luxury that other teams can’t match. 

 

Their depth will overmatch most teams especially in the playoffs. If LVK wins the cup, it should have an asterisk next to it with a 500m price tag, so the next bored billionaire can decide if

they want a cup too. 

[Stelar]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Gotta be tough to play in the NHL.  Gotta be super tough to succeed in the playoffs.  The game is fast, and mean.  The hits are hard, and intended to hurt.  Gotta be tough (mentally) to stay in the fight and battle.  Gotta be tough to take the hits to make plays.  Every player will be targeted, especially the ones who carry the puck the most.  Those guys need to be really mentally tough. 

PEnguins won the last 2 cups.  They are not super tough.  Fast and skill.  How about we stop determining what a winning recipe is after just 2 playoff games......

[48MPHSlapShot]

I would exactly call the 4 (roughly) PPG players that Vegas has "second liners". A PPG pace is top line material on most teams in the league, especially if you have 43 goals like Karlsson.

[Ted Lasso]

8 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Half a billion dollars buys you a team with so much depth. LVK have bought a team... their depth is disgusting. The best that money can buy. 

 

They may lack the top all

star players that other clubs have but having 4 second lines, three top four d pairings and 2 starting goalies is a luxury that other teams can’t match. 

 

Their depth will overmatch most teams especially in the playoffs. If LVK wins the cup, it should have an asterisk next to it with a 500m price tag, so the next bored billionaire can decide if

they want a cup too. 

Maybe I’m missing something - how is the price they paid for the franchise related to the quality of their roster? The expansion draft rules and the salary cap don’t change based on the price you pay for the franchise. If anything, Vegas is showing us a different model for success by not overpaying for several superstars and spreading the salary more evenly.

[Dats hockey]

10 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Half a billion dollars buys you a team with so much depth. LVK have bought a team... their depth is disgusting. The best that money can buy. 

 

They may lack the top all

star players that other clubs have but having 4 second lines, three top four d pairings and 2 starting goalies is a luxury that other teams can’t match. 

 

Their depth will overmatch most teams especially in the playoffs. If LVK wins the cup, it should have an asterisk next to it with a 500m price tag, so the next bored billionaire can decide if

they want a cup too. 

3 starting Goalies Dansk looked great

[coastal.view]

25 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Maybe I’m missing something - how is the price they paid for the franchise related to the quality of their roster? The expansion draft rules and the salary cap don’t change based on the price you pay for the franchise. If anything, Vegas is showing us a different model for success by not overpaying for several superstars and spreading the salary more evenly.

another example of revising history

 

the price they paid did in fact change the expansion draft rules

where were you ?

they had available to them a selection of quality players that had never before been available to any expansion team

so there was a change in case you missed it

 

and please explain how vegas made any decision to not overpay for several superstars

no team made such players available in the expansion draft for vegas to acquire

they had none of their own as they were a new franchise

they were effectively forced to make a roster of less then superstar quality players

but they were permitted to select a relative boatload of them by the new expansion rules

 

the only potential superstar they did acquire

from the khl and signed as a free agent

for significant dollars.. proved to be a flop

and vegas luckily were able to extract themselves from that contract

so they really have no "bad" contracts on their cap controlled payroll

 

so those factors strongly influenced how they had to construct their roster

and there is no doubt they did an excellent job of selecting the right players from the large pool available to them

and also were masterful in how they leveraged other teams to pay for them not to select certain players

they made off like bandits

 

even with the now current new expansion draft rules

it is most unlikely seattle can be as successful

as existing teams will prepare better for the next round of expansion

 

and so yes.. in this case.. the value of the expansion fee... did in fact change enough rules

to facilitate to some degree the acquisition of a team that could be near elite

right from the get go

Edited April 15, 2018 by coastal.view

[Ted Lasso]

@coastal.view

 

Pretty emotional response my friend. 

 

Sounds like you’re upset about the expansion draft rules change, and feel it’s unfair? 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Kenny Powers

[Nucker 67]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:03 PM, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

I would say it is just as "Bananas" to limit EP to a Baertschi -Filiip Forsberg range.....

 

EP will produce in the Backstrom - McDavid range in my opinion...

 

and as always...just watch...!

Yeah, okay, Baertschi is a bad example, but it was more of a worst-case. Even still, you're probably correct that he turns out to be similar to Backstrom. 

[Alflives]

50 minutes ago, Stelar said:

PEnguins won the last 2 cups.  They are not super tough.  Fast and skill.  How about we stop determining what a winning recipe is after just 2 playoff games......

Mental toughness is more important than physical toughness.  The Penguins for those two seasons had a lot of players who were mentally tough.  

[Rush17]

6 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Okay, So most of you think Pettersson is ready I get that, I'm just looking at some star Players that stayed in the SEL till Draft + 1 or 2  before coming to the NHL and by the way the AHL is not far off the NHL only a little nastier .Peter Forsberg, Henrik Zetterberg both spent more time with the SEL to mature. No doubt Pettersson  has the skill and heart Im just saying don't rush him. Shinny new toys have away loosing their luster once they get thrown in an old toy box. Management in the past have not demonstrated that they could and would protect their star players so  like  I said before we shall see.  

I would be sad if he stayed but if Dahlen makes the team. Waiting until late next year or the following wouldn't be to bad.  If he wins the SHL championship I think he will feel more inclined to come to the NHL.  The ideal situation if he isn't in the NHL is that he goes to the AHL.  We could have a very stacked Utica team.  I hope Evander Kane is open to signing to a reasonable term if he fits their desired qualities.  I have a conspiracy theory that comment linden said about adding free agents only if they are reasonable $$, term, and provide leadership in the room comment.. was meant for Evander.  If he wants to come he has to be a good example for the kids and he has to be willing not to screw the team financially.  I think he signs here because he wants to be a canuck.  Unless they go deep in SJS.  But long term the canucks team imo has a better chance of having more contending years then SJS.  I have no basis for saying this but the upside of our kids has me thinking it. we could use his physical attributes and nhl expereince if he can become a leader for these boys.

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Half a billion dollars buys you a team with so much depth. LVK have bought a team... their depth is disgusting. The best that money can buy. 

 

They may lack the top all

star players that other clubs have but having 4 second lines, three top four d pairings and 2 starting goalies is a luxury that other teams can’t match. 

 

Their depth will overmatch most teams especially in the playoffs. If LVK wins the cup, it should have an asterisk next to it with a 500m price tag, so the next bored billionaire can decide if

they want a cup too. 

 

I don't think this is accurate at all. That half a billion has nothing to do with icing a team under the salary cap. It has likely has more to do with licensing, the arena, marketing, merchandise, etc. 

 

There's absolutely no way they drafted 4 second lines, 3 top 4 pairings and two starting goalies in the expansion draft. That it absolutely not true. They drafted players that were mostly 3rd line and #4/5 quality. The only bonafide good players they got were Fleury and Neal. Guys like Karlsson, Marchessault, Smith, Schmidt, etc. are all guys who were middle 6/#5 defensemen on their respective teams last year. They did not somehow "buy" these players who were made available by their previous clubs. If they really did "buy" these players, why did they have about 10-12 million in cap space most of the year? Why can't a market like Toronto simply do the same thing?

 

Not only did they not have access to the quality of players you're talking about for the most part, they also didn't even have icing the best team possible as their top priority. They used their cap space to take back contracts like Clarkson (5.25 million cap hit), Grabovski (5 million cap hit) and Smith (5 million cap hit). Their top priority was amassing picks and prospects (Theodore, Tuch, Gusev and 10+ picks). 

 

Their #1 defenseman so far in their series against LA has been Schmidt. Schmidt played behind Orlov and Alzner on the bottom pairing in Washington last year. How is that "paying" for a top 4 defenseman?

 

So the question that everyone is asking (including myself) is how did that team get to the position they're in now? I think it starts with the coach. Gallant recognized the team he had and ran a system and style that matched what he was given to work with. There's a reason he's the runaway favourite for the Jack Adams. Second is the players buying in to the system and being wiling to work hard and grind to get results. If you watch them play, they play a simple game, nobody takes a shift off, everyone battles on both ends of the rink.

 

The reason their depth is so good is because everyone stepped up this year and is playing above what they're projected to be. That improvement isn't something money can buy. They were literally down to a 19 year old WHL goalie and still fought their way through it. That's not something money can buy. They've been outmatching stars like Getzlaf, Kopitar and McDavid in the Pacific all year. That's not something money can buy. 

 

You can't dismiss the season Vegas just had by looking at a 500 million dollar figure that has almost nothing to do with the on ice product.

[coastal.view]

1 hour ago, Kenny Powers said:

@coastal.view

 

Pretty emotional response my friend. 

 

Sounds like you’re upset about the expansion draft rules change, and feel it’s unfair? 

 

 

hardly upset

and you are reading emotion into my posting

if it is there it is not intentional

 

i like the rules

vegas got those breaks because of the fee paid

and because the nhl cannot afford to have the golden knights fail

as the raiders will be coming and will take a lot of attention and could move a lot of the fan base from the knights

it is a smart move by the nhl

and they may have noticed the success the mls has been having with expansion teams

and their expansion franchise fees values exploding

as the new ownership knows it will be getting a credible and better then average team right off the bat

 

look how much more seattle is paying for it's expansion team then vegas did?

 

and from the canucks perspective.. and likely most nhl teams

the rules were (my summary is not precise.. i realize that):

-you keep any player in your organization who has 3 years or less of nhl experience

-you keep your next top 8 players.. with some restriction.. 2 d, 1 goalie, and 5 forwards

and then of what remains.... (for most teams.. 12th best or maybe even a worse player on the roster)

-you will have to give up that player for your share of the expansion fee.. 15 million

almost every team would readily sell its middle of the roster player for that kind of dough

 

and i know it is not accurate that the entire fee is for that player

there are other risks involved . another team to share nhl related revenue streams etc

but with vegas. . set up the way it was.. that risk is almost bullet proof from the outset

as the team is set up to succeed

 

the biggest shift i see with the vegas expansion

is a change in nhl philosophy. hence a change in the rules

the nhl realized it can make more on expansion (money that is not shared with players as is not part of the definition of revenue)

if it created a better opportunity for immediate success

and abandoned the old model of expansion, which due to draft restrictions of the old rules, involved years of pain for the new fan base

 

i think it is relatively fair to suggest that the new ownership in vegas was permitted to some extent to buy a winning team

based on the amount of expansion fee they were willing to pay

and the nhl's willingness to alter substantially the expansion rules to the benefit of the new team

was because of those massive expansion fees

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by coastal.view