Elias Pettersson Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, kloubek said: While I can buy into at least your reasoning, I would argue that Robertson is still young and is poised to be an even more dominant scoring force than he already is. And given your username, I am surprised that you would rank Petey so low. While hardly a beast, he IS strong defensively. I don't recall who released it, but I came across something a couple of weeks ago which took many elements of a player's game across the board, and it made an argument that Petey was one of the best centers in the game already... not even taking into account the fact he's so young. I take that with a grain of salt since it isn't hard to cherry pick information to present a false case... but it sure did seem convincing. As you mentioned, Petey needs to produce this season. Actually, he should probably improve upon last season. And if he does so (which I believe WILL happen), I think we'll find his point totals in the top 5 of the league this coming season. I have Petey as the 11th best player in the entire NHL after his first 100 point season. Why do you think that is ranking him too low? He only had 68 points last season. Not even a poster who has Elias Pettersson as his username can be that subjective. Like I said, if Petey can replicate last season and even surpass that, and if he can finish in the top 3 in Selke voting and maybe top 10 in the Hart voting then I would certainly push him into the top 5-6 players in the NHL. As for Robertson, he finally had his breakout year, pushing him into élite territory. I could see him becoming the 2nd best winger in the entire NHL behind Tkachuk. But he’s not there yet. Maybe this season he will surpass the others. If he does then yeah I’d put him in the top 8-9 players in the NHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Erased Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 On 7/20/2023 at 11:29 AM, DrJockitch said: That list seriously undervalues defenceman. I couldn’t agree more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 On 7/17/2023 at 12:59 PM, Diamonds said: I think that was largely due to not having many other options. Bringing in Blueger should help lower Petey's PK time. I still like the idea of Petey playing at least some PK though as his counterattack ability and short-handed goalscoring threat forces other teams' power plays to play more timidly. Kind of like having Gretzky on the PK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) On 7/20/2023 at 1:00 PM, Elias Pettersson said: I have Tkachuk, Marner and Pastrnak ahead of Kucherov and Rantanen. I wouldn't have more than 3 wingers in my top 10. I could even put Hampus Lindholm in the top 10 and take out Pastrnak or Marner. It's all subjective really. Kucherov, Rantanen, Robertson, Kaprizov would all be in the top 15-18 guys for sure. And several Dmen like Lindholm, Slavin, Hedman, Josi, etc. Plus, Shesterkin and Vasilevskiy... You have properly identified some of the analytical darlings of the league. Well... I'm not sure if you can call Rantanen and Robertson analytical darlings... they are absolute scoring machines. Oh, you need to include Hughes and Toews. I don't necessarily disagree with you per se (I'd rank some above, others below), but I do think the burden is on you to prove that all these players are less valuable than our golden boy... Edited July 23, 2023 by Bob.Loblaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: You have properly identified some of the analytical darlings of the league. Well... I'm not sure if you can call Rantanen and Robertson analytical darlings... they are absolute scoring machines. Oh, you need to include Hughes and Toews. I don't necessarily disagree with you per se (I'd rank some above, others below), but I do think the burden is on you to prove that all these players are less valuable than our golden boy... Well it’s actually very simple and only involves a few phone calls. I don’t need to look at the WAR charts. All I’d have to do is call the GM’s of Dallas, Colorado, Minnesota, NY Rangers, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Nashville and New Jersey and ask them one simple question. Elias Pettersson is available for trade, are you interested in trading your guy straight up for Elias? How many of those GM’s would refuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Well it’s actually very simple and only involves a few phone calls. I don’t need to look at the WAR charts. All I’d have to do is call the GM’s of Dallas, Colorado, Minnesota, NY Rangers, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Nashville and New Jersey and ask them one simple question. Elias Pettersson is available for trade, are you interested in trading your guy straight up for Elias? How many of those GM’s would refuse? Not a bad point. But I think New Jersey says no for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Not a bad point. But I think New Jersey says no for sure. Petey > Hughes It's not even close and Allvin is the guy who hangs up the phone, even though it would be tempting to have the Hughes brothers together. But I would never trade a centre who can score more points PLUS be a defensive force over a centre who scores less points. I mean that doesn't really make much sense does it? Petey is basically Hughes and Hischier combined into one player. There aren't many players in the NHL who Allvin would trade for one for one for Petey. That list is less than 10 players IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNucks Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Petey > Hughes It's not even close and Allvin is the guy who hangs up the phone, even though it would be tempting to have the Hughes brothers together. But I would never trade a centre who can score more points PLUS be a defensive force over a centre who scores less points. I mean that doesn't really make much sense does it? Petey is basically Hughes and Hischier combined into one player. There aren't many players in the NHL who Allvin would trade for one for one for Petey. That list is less than 10 players IMO... I think Jack Hughes locked at 8x7 is way better than what Petey is gonna ask.... and maybe NJ can throw in Luke Hughes as well.... Thats something even Alvin would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNucks Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Petey > Hughes It's not even close and Allvin is the guy who hangs up the phone, even though it would be tempting to have the Hughes brothers together. But I would never trade a centre who can score more points PLUS be a defensive force over a centre who scores less points. I mean that doesn't really make much sense does it? Petey is basically Hughes and Hischier combined into one player. There aren't many players in the NHL who Allvin would trade for one for one for Petey. That list is less than 10 players IMO... 7 minutes ago, EastCoastNucks said: I think Jack Hughes locked at 8x7 is way better than what Petey is gonna ask.... and maybe NJ can throw in Luke Hughes as well.... Thats something even Alvin would do. Oh, and Jack had 99 points regular season but 10 more post season, so I guess he is a better points producer than Petey? Cause he actually helped team make playoffs? Worst thing Vancouver could do is continue to over-pay players thinking they are the superstar of the league. Petey is not worth 10 mil... maybe Petey twins would be worth $16 mil combined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Petey > Hughes It's not even close and Allvin is the guy who hangs up the phone, even though it would be tempting to have the Hughes brothers together. But I would never trade a centre who can score more points PLUS be a defensive force over a centre who scores less points. I mean that doesn't really make much sense does it? Petey is basically Hughes and Hischier combined into one player. There aren't many players in the NHL who Allvin would trade for one for one for Petey. That list is less than 10 players IMO... Keep in mind that Pettersson really developed his defensive game the last two years, in part because nobody else on the team was willing to defend. But Jack Hughes is the real deal. He's also on a really cheap deal. They essentially scored the same amount of points. Neither of them have reached their ceilings, but Hughes is three years younger. It's strange that you put true one-dimensional players like Draisaitl ahead of Pettersson while Hughes (who isn't a defensive player but can hold his own) falls behind. Who is more valuable - Jack at 7×$8M or Petey at 8×$12M? Allvin hangs up on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 4 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said: Oh, and Jack had 99 points regular season but 10 more post season, so I guess he is a better points producer than Petey? Cause he actually helped team make playoffs? Worst thing Vancouver could do is continue to over-pay players thinking they are the superstar of the league. Petey is not worth 10 mil... maybe Petey twins would be worth $16 mil combined... You truly have some of the worst hot takes on this forum. A line of Henrik-Daniel-Pettersson could probably score 400 points a season and you want to pay them $5.6M each. Our second line earns more than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 4 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said: Oh, and Jack had 99 points regular season but 10 more post season, so I guess he is a better points producer than Petey? Cause he actually helped team make playoffs? Worst thing Vancouver could do is continue to over-pay players thinking they are the superstar of the league. Petey is not worth 10 mil... maybe Petey twins would be worth $16 mil combined... Prepare to be very angry when he signs because you are in the vast minority thinking he's not worth that. Most think he's worth at least $10M and I personally think the range is $11-12M. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Keep in mind that Pettersson really developed his defensive game the last two years, in part because nobody else on the team was willing to defend. But Jack Hughes is the real deal. He's also on a really cheap deal. They essentially scored the same amount of points. Neither of them have reached their ceilings, but Hughes is three years younger. It's strange that you put true one-dimensional players like Draisaitl ahead of Pettersson while Hughes (who isn't a defensive player but can hold his own) falls behind. Who is more valuable - Jack at 7×$8M or Petey at 8×$12M? Allvin hangs up on that? Well if you are looking at strictly contract value then yes of course Hughes at $8 million for the next 7 years is probably the best value in hockey other than maybe Tage Thompson. So If you are trading Hughes for Petey then you are probably trading Thompson for Petey as well. Looking at just the actual talents though I wouldn’t trade Petey for Hughes or Thompson straight up regardless of their contracts. Petey is not only a 100 point player he is becoming an elite defensive player as well who could potentially win the Selke trophy. He is really in a class all by himself. McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Tkachuk, Pastrnak, none of those players are elite defensively. I put Draisaitl ahead of Petey because at the moment his offensive skill is a notch above all other than McDavid. And his contract for the next two years anyways is the best value in hockey. If Petey can elevate his offensive game even more let’s say up to 115 points and if he can also win the Selke trophy, then yeah I’d have him ahead of both Draisaitl and MacKinnon and would put him in the top 5 players in the NHL. I actually think Petey has the potential to become the best player in the NHL really. I don’t think McDavid can sustain what he is doing and if Draisaitl ends up leaving Edmonton then McDavid’s numbers will drop substantially. Similar to when Gretzky left Edmonton and went to LA. The salary cap will eventually catch up to Edmonton and break up that team. No way they can afford both McDavid and Draisaitl on $15 million+ contracts. Edited July 23, 2023 by Elias Pettersson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, -AJ- said: Prepare to be very angry when he signs because you are in the vast minority thinking he's not worth that. Most think he's worth at least $10M and I personally think the range is $11-12M. A 110-115 point player who can win the Selke trophy is worth $12 million. That’s what Petey can become. If he signs at $11 million for 8 years it’s actually good value for Vancouver. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Mrwipeout Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 ah these contract negotiations are nervewrecking. im worried that this might get out of hand and u end up with auston mathews rumors about 13 mill....im hopin for somewhere around 11 for 8...below that would be underpaid id say. hes got everything needed and potential to be the very best in the league within a few years. lock him him up long term now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Erased Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 On 7/24/2023 at 1:17 AM, Mrwipeout said: ah these contract negotiations are nervewrecking. im worried that this might get out of hand and u end up with auston mathews rumors about 13 mill....im hopin for somewhere around 11 for 8...below that would be underpaid id say. hes got everything needed and potential to be the very best in the league within a few years. lock him him up long term now! We can only hope he leaves money on the table so he can have a good team around him so they can win, which is what he wants. I have the same worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Citizen Erased said: We can only hope he leaves money on the table so he can have a good team around him so they can win, which is what he wants. I have the same worries. His last contract was fair, but do recall that he did hold out until the pre-season before signing. If he's the same as last time, I would expect him to hold out as long as it takes to get the contract he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 hours ago, -AJ- said: His last contract was fair, but do recall that he did hold out until the pre-season before signing. If he's the same as last time, I would expect him to hold out as long as it takes to get the contract he wants. He didn’t “hold out” though. Players aren’t paid until the regular season. So technically he didn’t “hold out” but rather was negotiating a new contract because his other had expired. Plus we had Benning then. Petey will sign for 100 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Alflives said: He didn’t “hold out” though. Players aren’t paid until the regular season. So technically he didn’t “hold out” but rather was negotiating a new contract because his other had expired. Plus we had Benning then. Petey will sign for 100 million. And Benning did some of his best work that summer. The deals he signed Pettey and Quinn to were fantastic. Now he was boxed into a corner on salary cap (heard that one before) so it was pretty much a negotiation of this is what I have for the 2 of you, how do you want to split it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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