UKNuck96 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said: I don’t think there’s any objective standard measure, but I am of the opinion that when a team starts trading 1st round picks for players (in our case, for a really good player at a good long term cap hit - JT Miller), then management sees a “light at the end of the tunnel,” in terms of a rebuild being over.” In the Canucks’ case, I think management sees 2021-2022 as the year where we will enter elitehood, and possibly win a cup. -Pettersson and Hughes will have newly minted deals. -Boeser, Horvat, and Miller will still be on very good AAV contracts below 6 million a year. -Podkolzin and Hoglander will likely be impact roster players on ELC contracts. -Edler and Tanev will be older, but will likely be in reduced roles (2nd and 3rd pairing) -Pearson and Toffoli will likely still be on the team at very reasonable cap hits -Markstrom will still be here in his prime. -All/most of our bad contracts will be off the books before the 2021-2022 season commences (ie Eriksson will only have two million owed in real dollars and will either retire or can easily be moved + one or both of Beagle and Roussel can be moved at 50% retention since they’ll only have one year left on their deals). -The Canucks should have enough cap space at this time to go after one other big UFA signing (Dougie Hamilton?) 2021-2022 projection: (my outlook) Miller-Pettersson-Boeser Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli Hoglander-Gaudette-Podkolzin Motte-[Beagle, Sutter at cheap contract, other]-MacEwen Lind Hughes-[Dougie Hamilton?] Juolevi-Myers Edler-Tanev (Edler’s last year as a Canuck) Rafferty or Woo Markstrom Dipietro or cheap vet back up (Demko moved earlier as a sweetener?) Where does rathbone fit into that? I think we would be more likely seeing Hughes Rathbone Juolevi on the left side of D and when contracts start coming up for renewal would not be surprised to see one of those three traded as part of a big move also on the right we have Myers Raffertty Fanta possibly tryamkin but that’s up in the air. 21-22 I cannot see edler being here, nor Tanev not all of that D is going to work out so some will get traded and it really would depends on the team needs and the players position on the team. Rathbone I would imagine at some point would need to be traded due to contracts and will always be behind Hughes so won’t get PP1 and 1st Paring duties and if he turns out as well as projected in the next few seasons a bubble team looking for a transitional D man will probably overpay for him Edited August 19, 2020 by UKNuck96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, UKNuck96 said: Where does rathbone fit into that? I think we would be more likely seeing Hughes Rathbone Juolevi on the left side of D and when contracts start coming up for renewal would not be surprised to see one of those three traded as part of a big move also on the right we have Myers Raffertty Fanta possibly tryamkin but that’s up in the air. 21-22 I cannot see edler being here, nor Tanev not all of that D is going to work out so some will get traded and it really would depends on the team needs and the players position on the team. Rathbone I would imagine at some point would need to be traded due to contracts and will always be behind Hughes so won’t get PP1 and 1st Paring duties and if he turns out as well as projected in the next few seasons a bubble team looking for a transitional D man will probably overpay for him I see Rathbone and Juolevi competing for that final left defense spot. I am of the opinion that an aged Edler will still be our 2nd or 3rd best defenseman on that left side due to what we can do (still log big minutes and play in all situations). I have high hopes for both Rathbone and Juolevi, but I’m not sure Iif they’ll ever get to that level, or will have any other significant strengths beyond being able to decently move the puck. Rathbone is a good young dman, but he’ll really have to take a significant leap if he’s going to be a 2nd pairing calibre dman at the NHL level. Edited August 19, 2020 by DarkIndianRises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, DarkIndianRises said: I see Rathbone and Juolevi competing for that final left defense spot. I am of the opinion that an aged Edler will still be our 2nd or 3rd best defenseman on that left side due to what we can do (still log big minutes and play in all situations). I have high hopes for both Rathbone and Juolevi, but I’m not sure Iif they’ll ever get to that level, or will have any other significant strengths beyond being able to decently move the puck. The little I have seen of rafferty is that he is a decent all round D man who is great at moving the puck, not a puck moving d man thy cannot do defence. However size wise he’s only just a bit taller than stetcher. i do think they will try and get a deal done with tryamkin because we need some size and meanness opposite Hughes and Rathbone and Myers and tryamkin would fit that bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 On 10/11/2019 at 8:58 AM, Hindustan Smyl said: In my opinion, the rebuild started with the Luongo deal. It was at that moment where the Canucks went from “sacrificing the long term for immediate short term gains,” to, “placing an emphasis on getting younger while surrounding said talent with the right vets.......vets that wouldn’t block the spots on deserving rookies.” Unfortunately, most hockey fans don’t equate the latter explanation with a traditional rebuild, and so Benning was crucified by ignoramuses. The Luongo deal took place after the Schneider deal. Gillis could have dealt Schneider for a "win now" piece - he did not - he dealt him for a forward looking piece - and reportedly was pushing the franchise to rebalance it's focus with more of a view to the future. So I think the OP correctly identified the Horvat deal - although I disagree that it coincided with the launch of a "rebuild" - nor do I think dealing Luongo represents the launch of a "rebuild" - they represent a more diviided approach imo - moreso the necessity to retool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 hour ago, oldnews said: The Luongo deal took place after the Schneider deal. Gillis could have dealt Schneider for a "win now" piece - he did not - he dealt him for a forward looking piece - and reportedly was pushing the franchise to rebalance it's focus with more of a view to the future. So I think the OP correctly identified the Horvat deal - although I disagree that it coincided with the launch of a "rebuild" - nor do I think dealing Luongo represents the launch of a "rebuild" - they represent a more diviided approach imo - moreso the necessity to retool. It’s a good point but I also believe that the Canucks were still trying to compete at the start of the 2013-2014 season (Torts’ season). Once they started to free fall around the start of 2014 after that 6-2 win against Boston (they got banged up on the back end), they started deliberately making moves that placed more emphasis on the future (ie Luongo deal). The Schneider deal was done more or less at the last minute once Gillis realized that he wouldn’t be able to get what he thought was proper market value for Luongo. The Canucks traded Schneider for a pick (Horvat), but the overall team focus was on trying to win the cup or at least go deep. On the flip side for instance, when the Canucks signed Loui Eriksson back in 2016, the overall team emphasis on protecting and preserving the development of our kids (ie insulating guys like Virtanen and making sure that guys like Virtanen were playing in roles compatible to their current abilities and weren’t being over-exerted) even though to the casual fan, it appeared that this signing was being made because Benning thought we were cup contenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 C'mon Bo, put the team on your broad shoulders, like vs St Loo. Need a big tilt from our C. GCG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Obviously when put up against a team that is already "built" like Vegas, you must concede that the Canucks better not be finished rebuilding yet. We need a younger, talented bottom 6, with size, that can skate and have hands (like Tuch). Jake is just not that guy. Jury's still out on Mac and Gaudette. Also an emphasis on help and more size on the defence. JB's dumb refusal to sign Tryamkin for next season (and playoffs) will cost us down the road. Tryamkin and his agent probably already have decided he will probably never play for the Canucks, and his rights traded. Also the old veteran "support players" on those bottom lines are locked up with untradable contracts. I don't know exactly how we will look that much different next year's playoffs. The top players will have developed more and have some experience in this years playoffs that's true, but also LE, Beagle, Sutter, and Rousell will be a year older and still on the decline. And we may not have Tanev and/or Toffoli. But JB seems to have a lot of luck following him, so maybe some way he gets some move done. Or LE retires. Someone bites on Sutter. Or we can move Virtanen for another, more eager, young prospect. But its pretty clear we have not yet "completed" our rebuild. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, kilgore said: Obviously when put up against a team that is already "built" like Vegas, you must concede that the Canucks better not be finished rebuilding yet. We need a younger, talented bottom 6, with size, that can skate and have hands (like Tuch). Jake is just not that guy. Jury's still out on Mac and Gaudette. Also an emphasis on help and more size on the defence. JB's dumb refusal to sign Tryamkin for next season (and playoffs) will cost us down the road. Tryamkin and his agent probably already have decided he will probably never play for the Canucks, and his rights traded. Also the old veteran "support players" on those bottom lines are locked up with untradable contracts. I don't know exactly how we will look that much different next year's playoffs. The top players will have developed more and have some experience in this years playoffs that's true, but also LE, Beagle, Sutter, and Rousell will be a year older and still on the decline. And we may not have Tanev and/or Toffoli. But JB seems to have a lot of luck following him, so maybe some way he gets some move done. Or LE retires. Someone bites on Sutter. Or we can move Virtanen for another, more eager, young prospect. But its pretty clear we have not yet "completed" our rebuild. One can't summarize everything through a title..certainly not the all-encompassing aspects of this(version of) franchise-overview. Regarding 'Rebuild Done' within title, felt this was more an indication of finally having the young, key pieces, & an upwards trajectory(as opposed to the ongoing spiral downwards) finally underway. & of course when started in Fall 2017, the title was different. Then kept changing the %(of rebuild) every few games. Intention then was to say, "Yeah, this is ugly. But c'mon folks, we're 75, 80...85, etc..% thru this tough slog..yada, yada" At that time places like(that OTHER site!) were soooo freeken ugly & negative. Rightly or wrongly, felt the folks on CDC should keep focusing on the positive angle. Due to the success(mostly, that is) of JB at the draft table, all positive threads have mostly aged as beautifully as Sophia-freeken-Loren. Of course we didn't know it would, at the time. We can all sip a glass of good whiskey today, looking back on a nice few yrs of a textbook-efficient reconstruction of roster. But yes, mostly agree with your post. Let's hope Tree ain't uprooted! Edited August 31, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 Gotta figure folks are CRAVing this thread?... (& what a classy, dedicated, & talented Captain we have) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 This thread title should add .. "and destroyed in the 2020 off-season and bad contracts" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 The rebuilt is completed alright, but the deadweights and bad contracts absolutely derails the team's timeline to compete. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, iinatcc said: This thread title should add .. "and destroyed in the 2020 off-season and bad contracts" "And then the 2021 season happened... And the 2021 draft reset began." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 At the moment with win % we're picking 4th so our highest pick might still be yet to come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Completed he says 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 8/30/2020 at 5:24 PM, Nuxfanabroad said: C'mon Bo, put the team on your broad shoulders, like vs St Loo. Need a big tilt from our C. GCG! The probelm is bigger than Bo. I see it from their posture when they get scored on and their lazy back checking. There is also lack of emotions, lack of urgency that you won't see from a team that would try to come back when the team struggles and loses. This is beyond Bo, and Bo alone can't fix this problem. The team needs a huge reset, either by a coaching change or management change plus maybe some trades. I don't see this as a losing streak anymore and I won't see the defensive issues being fixed unless something big happens. Even then, I don't predict it will solve the problem completely since Benning let go of really important heart and soul players and MVPs. All of this has compounded into what we see today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 2:33 PM, DownUndaCanuck said: At the moment with win % we're picking 4th so our highest pick might still be yet to come... I predict Vancouver finishes 2nd to the last this season. With the way Ottawa has played against the Habs I wouldn't be surprised if Ottawa gets more wins Vancouver when it's all said and done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 1/21/2021 at 10:54 PM, ruilin96 said: The rebuilt is completed alright, but the deadweights and bad contracts absolutely derails the team's timeline to compete. I imagine if we had this young core but a better GM, we would be competing with the Habs for the 1st position in the North Division. Ericksson, Myers, Sutter and Roussel should not have been signed. The money should have gone to re-signing the players we had in Tanev, Stecher and Toffoli. We probably should have signed Markstrom but with maybe a shorter term. There were much better defenders that were available this off season like Joel Edmonsun, Devon Towes, TJ Brodie and heck even Pietrangelo. The problem with Benning was that he overpaid for fringe players for long terms. No one would be mad at him if he had signed Pietrangelo for 8.5 or 9 million because we know he is a legit number 1 D man with Stanley cup ring. But signing a player like Myers at 6 million/year, a 3rd pair D man from an average Jets team was just too much for the wrong type of player. I think these are the contracts that would be the reason why JB would get fired if he ever does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, iinatcc said: I predict Vancouver finishes 2nd to the last this season. With the way Ottawa has played against the Habs I wouldn't be surprised if Ottawa gets more wins Vancouver when it's all said and done Well, if a coaching change does happen and a right coach is hired, it might be a different story. This Vancouver team is still better than Ottawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, DefCon1 said: I imagine if we had this young core but a better GM, we would be competing with the Habs for the 1st position in the North Division. Ericksson, Myers, Sutter and Roussel should not have been signed. The money should have gone to re-signing the players we had in Tanev, Stecher and Toffoli. We probably should have signed Markstrom but with maybe a shorter term. There were much better defenders that were available this off season like Joel Edmonsun, Devon Towes, TJ Brodie and heck even Pietrangelo. The problem with Benning was that he overpaid for fringe players for long terms. No one would be mad at him if he had signed Pietrangelo for 8.5 or 9 million because we know he is a legit number 1 D man with Stanley cup ring. But signing a player like Myers at 6 million/year, a 3rd pair D man from an average Jets team was just too much for the wrong type of player. I think these are the contracts that would be the reason why JB would get fired if he ever does. Yeah Myers with a 6 million cap hit while Pietrangelo at 8.8 is another bad look for Benning and a classic example of him overpaying Free Agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, iinatcc said: Yeah Myers with a 6 million cap hit while Pietrangelo at 8.8 is another bad look for Benning and a classic example of him overpaying Free Agents. That is a horrible take. One is signed pre covid the other is after a flat cap. No way Pietro goes for anything less than $10mil of Covid wasn't a thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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