(Rumour) Maple Leafs Have Interest In Erik Gudbranson

[Gurn]

13 minutes ago, TU90 said:

How is losing McCann and a 2nd round pick for nothing not a disappointment?

2 years of Gudbranson playing is not nothing. If Gud doesn't re-sign he will be traded for an asset or assets thus not "nothing"

[86Viking]

4 minutes ago, J-23 said:

I really want to to re-sign Gudbranson, but if JB is going to trade him, I heard Marner got demoted again to 4th line in practice and team hasn't been happy with his play. 

Wishful thinking. Guddy to TO for a F would likely be Kapanen and maybe a mid pick. Marner if dealt will get moved for D help I would assume

[86Viking]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Have to wonder if his average play and his injuries the last 2 seasons won't mean we can retain him for $4 million or less for a few seasons.

 

If possible might as well do it.  He's not worth more than $4 million but some GM would shovel cash at him because that's what GMs do

So true, I am sure he gets a 4-5yr term deal from some team north of 4m per. I would be happy if we did lock him up though. I remember Kris Russel albeit not a physical D, he thought he was going to cash in and he eventually did with EDM but he had to take a 1yr prove it deal. Maybe that is what Guddy was trying to do this year, well that hasnt panned out for him.

 

I would honestly offer him 5yrs @ 3.9m per & see his response. if they laugh at it or come back at over 4.5m with similar term and maybe even want some form of NTC then I think we have to pass. We have cap space this off season, but we do need to spend wisely so we dont get screw ourselves just as we get good and then not have the cap space to make a key addition

[Jester13]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Have to wonder if his average play and his injuries the last 2 seasons won't mean we can retain him for $4 million or less for a few seasons.

 

If possible might as well do it.  He's not worth more than $4 million but some GM would shovel cash at him because that's what GMs do

I think this might just be what we see with him is another year at 3.5 so that he can prove he's worth more.

[oldnews]

28 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@oldnews

i was wondering, considering Guddy’s July 1st UFA status and his potential to leave and we get nothing in return, does that factor into his (potential) contract numbers from JB?  If his play points to a 4 million dollar salary, but he’s wanting 5, is that extra 1 million worth it to us, considering he could leave and we get nothing?  We did give up a first McCann and a second to get him.  Or does all the extra stuff (what we gave up to get him + his coming UFA status + we could get nothing for him) not factor in to JB’s negotiations?  Personally I think it should, but with the salary cap, making contract mistakes on players might be of more value than the extenuating factors in Guddy’s case.  

Am I making this negotiation more complicated than it should be?  

Precisely part of the calculation you have to make - it is and has to be complicated.

The relative value in assets lost vs a compromise on cap hit, asssuming they'd have to make the latter.

 

I'd take the compromise on cap hit (in the parameters you've set) over the asset loss if it came down to that - because I think Gudbranson is worth the lower end in the present, even with the limiting factors (of injuries) and will be worth more than he's 'earned' the past two seasons here if he's at all healthy - which can't be assumed one way or the other. 

 

Not many players look seemless through these kinds of seasons.   And add to that that when you expect a player like him to handle the opposition's best all the time, battle in his own end, get hit with shots, punch faces when necessary, imo that is exactly where you do not then try to use an injury as grounds to devalue a player.  So I'd hope to reach mutually beneficial terms, but I enter that negotiation being willing to be somewhat flexible on the side of what will appear to some an 'overpayment'.

And I'd liken the circumstances to the Sbisa contract - where countless people around here not only whiffed on Sbisa's value, but overestimated the impact of that contract.  Sbisa was paid for the role he played in transition - and in the end, imo he earned every dollar of his contract in terms of the minutes he played, and the fact he then buffered the team in the expansion draft.  Most people couldn't conceive of a team taking him - LV not only chose that awful contract, but made him a top pairing D there.

 

Here, you also have to factor in things like the losses of Sbisa and Tryamkin - in terms of the risk of asset loss vs the cap/term risks.

I personally would not be going into that negotiation to play hardball or contriving ways to undervalue him as a lot of people here do - that is short-sighted and not really in the interests of management (it more fits the narrative of complaining and preparing to complain) - I'm going in and laying every card on the table to work out what is an integrative, fair deal that tries to balance all those factors.

 

 

 

[oldnews]

25 minutes ago, TU90 said:

How is losing McCann and a 2nd round pick for nothing not a disappointment?

that's not what happened, that's how.

[86Viking]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Here, you also have to factor in things like the losses of Sbisa and Tryamkin - in terms of the risk of asset loss vs the cap/term risks.

I personally would not be going into that negotiation to play hardball or contriving ways to undervalue him as a lot of people here do - that is short-sighted and not really in the interests of management (it more fits the narrative of complaining and preparing to complain) - I'm going in and laying every card on the table to work out what is an integrative, fair deal that tries to balance all those factors.

We did lose those 2, are you saying we need to kind of pay up to keep Guddy due to what he can bring? I am fine bringing him back. The issue I would have is 1 guy cant do it all. So who else are we going to bring in to help him and bring some pushback that this team sorely needs

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, Yotes said:

We did lose those 2, are you saying we need to kind of pay up to keep Guddy due to what he can bring? I am fine bringing him back. The issue I would have is 1 guy cant do it all. So who else are we going to bring in to help him and bring some pushback that this team sorely needs

That is certainly true, but imo it only highlights that 1 guy is a start and a step in the right direction as opposed to a step backward where we deal him for a small forward or pick or AHL D prospect, or whatever.

 

I do think we need to pay him and keep him.   There is risk inherent in any contract - on both sides.   I'd take the risk of re-signing him - and I also think that regardless, Gudbranson at reasonable terms is a valuable asset to a lot of teams.  I think people will find - if Gudbranson were to go to free agency - that there are teams that will value him quite highly.

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, Yotes said:

The issue I would have is 1 guy cant do it all. So who else are we going to bring in to help him and bring some pushback that this team sorely needs

Nope, one can't. But that's also precisely why we can't particularly afford to lose him on a whim, as many here seem content to do.

 

Sign E Kane this summer, guys like Gadjovich and MacEwan hopefully on the way. Even guys who are tenacious/hard to play against in Gaudette and Lind or heck, even Dahlen to a degree as well. Hopefully Tryamkin comes back in a couple years as well.

 

There is (or potentially is) 'cavalry' on the way. To add that to the likes of Horvat, Virtanen, Gaunce etc

[oldnews]

40 minutes ago, guntrix said:

The Oilers didn't need to be physical because they didn't have to. 

 

I mean, the hit highlight of the game was Adam freaking Larsson's tame hip check. Adam. Larsson. Come on guy.

 

Oblivious.

 

The Oilers were in our paint all night long - in Markstrom's face, burying goals, hitting posts - and no disrespect to Edler or MDZ, but they were the principal guys charged with handling a half dozen forwards weighing in over 1300lbs - and could have used some support.  Edler was solid, but lonely out there.

 

Derp.

What use would Gudbranson be?  He can't bench press 1300lbs, so what's the point lulzzz?

 

Epitome of a white towel.

 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

Oblivious.

 

The Oilers were in our paint all night long - in Markstrom's face, burying goals, hitting posts - and no disrespect to Edler or MDZ, but they were the principal guys charged with handling a half dozen forwards weighing in over 1300lbs - and could have used some support.  Edler was solid, but lonely out there.

 

Derp.

What use would Gudbranson be?  He can't bench press 1300lbs, so what's the point lulzzz?

 

Epitome of a white towel.

 

Not sure you should bother. Don't think he gets it.... 

[guntrix]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

Oblivious.

 

The Oilers were in our paint all night long - in Markstrom's face, burying goals, hitting posts - and no disrespect to Edler or MDZ, but they were the principal guys charged with handling a half dozen forwards weighing in over 1300lbs - and could have used some support.  Edler was solid, but lonely out there.

 

Derp.

What use would Gudbranson be?  He can't bench press 1300lbs, so what's the point lulzzz?

 

Epitome of a white towel.

 

1st goal: Stetcher misreads the play and pinches up. Virtanen then proceeds to give away the puck while trying to pull his best Lidstrom impersonation. 

 

2nd goal: Pool party five-holes Henrik and threads the needle to Khaira who scores without any defender on him. Outside the crease. 

 

3rd goal: Pool Party rebound. No player on him.

 

4th goal: two on one, one timer. Outside the crease

 

5th goal: empty net. 

 

2-3 other chances came with McDavid out-speeding our defenders to the puck. 

 

Again, having a 5/6 brute doesn't change any of this.

 

If you didn't watch the game, don't pretend like you did. 

[Warhippy]

48 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I think this might just be what we see with him is another year at 3.5 so that he can prove he's worth more.

IMO that might be better knowing how deep the potential market is for defensemen on trade this year.

 

And since we all know Toronto is going to get all the big names for Dermott n a secun might as well see about retaining him over a year or two and try to cash in

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, guntrix said:

3rd goal: Pool Party rebound. No player on him.

 

You shot yourself in the foot here.

 

Decisive, game-winning goal - in our paint.

 

Anyone that did not see the Oiler powerforwards strengths down low relative to our thinned group - is completely oblivious.

 

[guntrix]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

You shot yourself in the foot here.

 

Decisive, game-winning goal - in our paint.

 

Anyone that did not see the Oiler powerforwards strengths down low relative to our thinned group - is completely oblivious.

 

The fact that you only point to one goal out of five only solidifies my point.

[Rush17]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

Guessing that means it is or will be evident how much easier this team is to play against without Gudbranson in the lineup?

 

I think that was the case last night in Edmonton.  Their forward group has some heaviness to it - Draisaitl, Lucic, Kassian, Maroon, Khaira - even Puljujarvi, Pakarinen are over 210.

Gudbranson makes a huge difference against teams like that - and you could see last night the difficulty the team had handling them.  It leaves an awful lot on Alex Edler (and Del Zotto).

 

I thought the team was ok for the most part last night, at least after a weak first period - but Gudbranson's absence imo is clear (as was the absence of Dorsett and Horvat) - three of the team's most difficult guys to play against.

Teams had clear runs to the net.  Guddy on the ice would of  remained back further and punished guys who tried to speed by him.  I am guessing there would of been far less 2 on 1's or 3 on 1's.  Even tho he can be a slow pilon at times his physicality can intimidate players.  I personally want Gudbranson moved but our D needs work regardless lol.  Hutton imo needs to be moved.  We need 1 more experienced D man who can play our style of play.  Gudbranson is experienced but struggles to keep up with the play of our fast moving D.  Gudbranson would do far better on a Jets, Anaheim, or maybe even Oilers team.  What I meant though was they wouldn't of had so many odd man rushes if he was playing.  Pouliot was a bit rusty and tried to pinch or take the wrong guy a few times.  Thankfully Markstrom stood on his head and saved his bacon so he wasnt worse then the -3 he finished with.  I really like Pouliot.  The kid is full of talent but he just needs a few games to get his feet back under him and get the feel of the game back.  We need a RHD tho to better support our team.

[Rush17]

What are the odds of his back spasms go on until the Trade Deadline?  Anyone know the average time out for such a thing?  Sometimes its a day or two.  A week. I recall Kassian having some issues back in the day.  I would be pissed if he stays on IR until the day after the TDL.  I would say "sit him" the rest of the season lol but I know that isn't the answer.  

 

What would Erik's value be at the draft if were unable to move him at or before the TDL?  Maybe a 3rd?  for his rights to try and ink him?   ugh.  I hope it isn't a lasting issue.

[Rush17]

31 minutes ago, guntrix said:

1st goal: Stetcher misreads the play and pinches up. Virtanen then proceeds to give away the puck while trying to pull his best Lidstrom impersonation. 

 

2nd goal: Pool party five-holes Henrik and threads the needle to Khaira who scores without any defender on him. Outside the crease. 

 

3rd goal: Pool Party rebound. No player on him.

 

4th goal: two on one, one timer. Outside the crease

 

5th goal: empty net. 

 

2-3 other chances came with McDavid out-speeding our defenders to the puck. 

 

Again, having a 5/6 brute doesn't change any of this.

 

If you didn't watch the game, don't pretend like you did. 

Gudbranson almost always stays back. I suspect their would of been fewer odd man rushes because Guddy's partner usually stays within range of him as he is a constant reminder to focus on defense.  Guddy naturally plays that role.  Now you have guddy out and someone else has to take that "defense first" approach as the anchor on that d pairing.  I suspect it would of been a much different game with Gudbranson on the ice.  Far less sitting on the blue paint, far less drives to the net, and a lot more respect of our defenders.  But with that said. Gudbranson isn't the answer to our problems.  We need another experienced defender that can quickly transition the puck out of the zone.  Chicago doesn't have a big crease clearer and they do not need one. They transition the puck quickly.  Our issue is we have Ben Hutton and Del Zotto on the rear end. To many like minded players.  I believe Del Zotto is better then Hutton and I think Hutton is the main problem on our D.  Stecher has looked amazing. Del Zotto stopped a goal by blocking a cross crease pass like a G.  Pouliot had a rough game but its his first game back since early Jan after no games for a stretch then a team break.  He will rebound. Del Zotto is probably my favorite defender so far this season. Stech is finally starting to show up and I am getting excited.  He was imo without question our best defender last night.  Laying on thick rub outs.  Rushing play.  Charging behind their net. All in all a great game by Stecher.  I think Ben Hutton needs to go.  I know he is a symbol of the youth movement but we need someone who can be more decisive and get the puck out.  He seems to be skating like he has bricks attached to his skates. His stride is completely choppy and his decision making is often poor. (It ant easy be a defender in the NHL.. but we need defenders who better fit our style of play).

 

 

1 hour ago, Yotes said:

Wishful thinking. Guddy to TO for a F would likely be Kapanen and maybe a mid pick. Marner if dealt will get moved for D help I would assume

Is Kapanen even good? I hear TO gushing over how amazing he is yet he hasn't really done much at the nhl level ive seen.  What is he? overhyped?  not quite nhl ready?  It seems hes been a prized prospect for the TO since they got him from Pitts.  Is he an borderline nhl player like goldie or whats going on with the kid?  I think we should target either a similar aged defender who better fits our style of play or a young RHD.  If we do the latter we need to be ready to suffer through some turbulant times on D.

[Rush17]

2 hours ago, guntrix said:

 

It's a primitive take to say that Gudbranson's inclusion would've changed anything yesterday. Physicality wasn't the key factor- if you think it was then you either didn't watch the game or want to spin the loss in Gudbranson's favour. 

 

 

What cost us last night was the lack of D experience.  Gudbranson would of made a difference without question.  But Gudbranson isn't the solution for the style of play we want to use.  So yeah he would of been a big difference maker last night but the style of play we want to use is not best suited for Gudbranson.  I think we need an experienced top 4 D man in his mid to late 20's who can help with the transition game. I think Gudbranson should be the chip we use to acquire said piece.  Otherwise we are paying top dollar in free agency for a top 4 transition D or suffering through another season of turbulent times until a D in our system ie Juolevi Chatfield can come in take on some of the load.  I think we need an experienced D man tho more then just a rookie. Someone who knows the nhl who can navigate the waters easier.  The thing I love about Del Zotto is his commitment to every shift.  He gives it all and isn't afraid to fall on his back to save a play.  Del Zotto is the type of guy u want the kids learning from on D.  The only other solution would be to get Trymakin back.  Hes done well in the KHL and did very well in his time here when he was given opportunity. He only got better with more time.  Tryamkin doesnt mind playing on the right side either. 

 

A top 6 of:

Edler Stecher

Trymakin Tanev

Del Zotto Pouliot 

 

would do far better in this new era of the nhl.  If we can't get tryamkin back though we need an experienced defender in that 25-29 range who can help lead the transition out of our zone. Del Zotto has done a fine job but we need 1 more experienced body to prevent what happened last night. Hutton IMO is the weakest link on D.  I know we got some hutton lovers out there. He represent the youth movement i get it.  but he needs to be moved for another assets even if its a few years older.

[Rush17]

2 hours ago, TU90 said:

I would be so pissed if I was Gudbransons agent. You're in your contract year, you've been injured the last two years, and you spend your off week in Mexico where you injure your back.

 

Is this guy expecting to get paid simply because of his size and age?

Maybe he doesn't want to get moved at the TDL. maybe he wants to milk it to pick his own destination in the off season.  

 

better not be the case.  I will be pissed.