Pears Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, guntrix said: People are overvaluing the trade value of a 25 year-old forward who's never notched more than 35 points in his entire career. I hope you know a defenseman isn’t required to score points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Pears said: I hope you know a defenseman isn’t required to score points. I was talking about Baertschi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, D-Money said: The problem with all of these proposals (besides overvaluing our guy and undervaluing theirs), is...what is the point for the other team? Any benefit Toronto gets for adding Tanev will be significantly offset by losing one of their top current offensive performers. If TO think they have a real shot, and the player they covet makes their current team better, they will be looking to trade a player who is not a core contributor to the current team, so the results are all positive. Picks, prospects, or young guys who aren't integral are realistic. Key cornerstone youth are not. Losing Tanev would just create the same hole toronto is trying to fill. Tanev could easily garner us Nylander not sure how thats over valuing our guy and under valuing theirs unless your speaking in general terms of the proposals. i believe Tanev is the perfect partner to break juolevi into the league with. i for one would like to keep tanman. im all for moving gudbranson and maybe a depth forward not named Vanek. i hope we keep vanek unless it costs us kane in the off season. not sure we can afford kane with Erikssons contract. id love to parlay guddy into a good pick and prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmy Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, shiznak said: That's not really a fair comparison. Its more like Zaitsev, Kadri, and a second for Boeser; which I might consider if I was a contender. A top 4 D, 2nd line center, and a pick for Boeser. That is the kind of move you make if you want to lose your job!Or your Mike Milbury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said: Have you seen Marner play this year? I'm not talking just the highlights of when he scores points. Watch him in a game. Overall, he has been quite a liability on D. Might as well give the other team a power playl Many in Toronto are talking about how badly the kid has regressed. Marner is the type of player that is all the rage in the NHL right now. Somewhat one dimensional. They are fun to watch but you won't win championships with them unless you have a lot of defensive support for them. By defence I mean team defence. Marner plays a junior style of game. The reason Babcock is having fits right now is because he knows that style won't win come playoff time. Can the kid adapt? Probably. But his offensive numbers will suffer which is why I wouldn't give up anymore than Tanev for him. I'm not even sure I would do that because we are lacking quality D like Tanev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Clearly those proposing Tanev plus plus for Marner don't watch out of market games. I wouldn't even do Taneve straight up for Marner. He's not worth Tanev let alone adding to that. Marner had a poor playoffs and has been OK this year. He's not what the Leafs had hoped he would be by now. Tanev would return a much better forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 12 hours ago, guntrix said: People are overvaluing the trade value of a 25 year-old forward who's never notched more than 35 points in his entire career. The problem with trading Baertschi is that as Bo’s wingman he has much more value to the team then what he will return in trade. I’ve heard say he’s replaceable, but until Virtanen/Granlund/Goldobin/Whoever actually step up and show they belong in the top 6 I don’t see anyone threatening his spot on Bo’s wing. Boiling him down to “a 25 year old who has never botched more than 35 points” is the most pessimistic slant you could possibly take on Baer. Still, I agree he’s not a great piece to trade at the moment because his trade value won’t match up with what he does for this team, which is pair with Bo to create a top 6 line with or without Boeser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: The problem with trading Baertschi is that as Bo’s wingman he has much more value to the team then what he will return in trade. I’ve heard say he’s replaceable, but until Virtanen/Granlund/Goldobin/Whoever actually step up and show they belong in the top 6 I don’t see anyone threatening his spot on Bo’s wing. Boiling him down to “a 25 year old who has never botched more than 35 points” is the most pessimistic slant you could possibly take on Baer. Still, I agree he’s not a great piece to trade at the moment because his trade value won’t match up with what he does for this team, which is pair with Bo to create a top 6 line with or without Boeser. Frogs is as frogs does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: Frogs is as frogs does. It’s a skill, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKnight Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 13 hours ago, oldnews said: Agree. Pass on Marner. And would have at the draft as well. Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski.....what might have been for the Leafs. Meanwhile.....they shop for D..... Hard to choose between those 3 D, all of them are highly effective. I go Provorov, just because hes not only very good in all zones, but hes a really gritty heavy hitter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 54 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Frogs is as frogs does. There is folk lore story about frog sailing down river on a log an landing in a better home an prospered in their new place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 47 minutes ago, KKnight said: Hard to choose between those 3 D, all of them are highly effective. I go Provorov, just because hes not only very good in all zones, but hes a really gritty heavy hitter too. Yeah, the only easy part is any of them over Marner..... The Leafs may have backed into their 'core' but the result is the same regardless. when they drafted Marner - they already had taken Nylander.... but they didn't know they'd also wind up with Matthews in the next draft. I've never been a fan of Marner - nor the Stromes - they rub me in similar ways - and I would not have missed the opportunity to get a top flight defensemen in the 2015 draft. If they had added one of those D, imo they'd be much further ahead today. That is partial hindsight (but not really - it was my position at the time) - but regardless of winning the lottery I think they missed an opportunity in 2015. I don't think they have the assets otherwise to get a young D to fit and grow with their core - mulitples of B assets won't get that done - and high picks probably aren't in the cards for them for the next few years, so.... If I'm the Leafs I'm looking to move Marner to create better balance - imo it's either him or Nylander and I personally would keep Nylander and move Marner while his value can potentially bring back the defenseman they need. I'd probably also move Gardiner for similar reasons and because those two could possibly get you a couple pieces that the Leafs can win with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 15 hours ago, shiznak said: I wish Marner was available despite being in the doghouse in T.O. Even though, the price would be set too high for what they'd be asking. Defensemen in his prime with years (Tanev), a top 6 roster player (Bärtschi), and a pick (late first - early second). Been thinking on this. A proven top four D, A top six roster player, and a high pick? Nope. Way too much for a player yet to prove he can play the game the right way. Your still banking on potential in Marner. Your talking two proven players and a valuable pick for a potential, inconsistent top six player that hasn't shown me I can win with yet. I would have to think on Tanev straight across for Marner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 What does a top 4 D usually garner a team? take out the "size and intangibles". If Guddy is viewed as top 4 or lets say #4 D man. What have those quality D men gone for over the past few seasons? Anyone know of any comparable 2nd pairing d men who were traded? whether it was a ufa or a player with a year or 2 left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, ilduce39 said: The problem with trading Baertschi is that as Bo’s wingman he has much more value to the team then what he will return in trade. I’ve heard say he’s replaceable, but until Virtanen/Granlund/Goldobin/Whoever actually step up and show they belong in the top 6 I don’t see anyone threatening his spot on Bo’s wing. Boiling him down to “a 25 year old who has never botched more than 35 points” is the most pessimistic slant you could possibly take on Baer. Still, I agree he’s not a great piece to trade at the moment because his trade value won’t match up with what he does for this team, which is pair with Bo to create a top 6 line with or without Boeser. I agree Baer is far less effective away from Bo. The only issue I have is what his cap hit might look like after re-signing this summer. It might be wise to keep him away from Bo to see if he can actually be effective on a line without Bo. One it provides the team a chance to see if he can be effective on a lower line (allows other teams to see him too). Two it would better help protect us if we decide to sign him long term. Baer is probably a 3rd line LWer on a decent team. He's propelled to our top line because we lack the depth and he/bo have some chemistry. There was no point paying Morrison Naslund money. He just complimented those players right. I'd hate to see him ask for to much and get let go like A. Carter. I know Morrison would never get nazzy money just the only example i can think of lol. (ill admit its a bad one.) Baer is a complimentary piece. Teams that give long term deals to complimentary pieces do not win championships. Do what Chicago and LA did. SIgn your core guys to term. Then cycle through wingers based on salary cap avaliable and build organisational depth. Thats how you win cup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, bobbyg43 said: There is folk lore story about frog sailing down river on a log an landing in a better home an prospered in their new place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, Rush17 said: What does a top 4 D usually garner a team? take out the "size and intangibles". If Guddy is viewed as top 4 or lets say #4 D man. What have those quality D men gone for over the past few seasons? Anyone know of any comparable 2nd pairing d men who were traded? whether it was a ufa or a player with a year or 2 left. Russel arguably more a 4-5 stay at home went to dallas from calgary a few years ago for jyrki jokipakka brett pollock and a condition second Toronto traded Polak/Spaling for Torres and a 2017/2018 2nd from the sharks (LOL) Corrado went for Eric Fehr/Steven Oleksy and a 2017 4th round pick Honestly I think the price is closer to Russel with a slightly better return than most people would think. Or if you're toronto, Dermott n a secund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 8 hours ago, WHL rocks said: Clearly those proposing Tanev plus plus for Marner don't watch out of market games. I wouldn't even do Taneve straight up for Marner. He's not worth Tanev let alone adding to that. Marner had a poor playoffs and has been OK this year. He's not what the Leafs had hoped he would be by now. Tanev would return a much better forward. 4 points in 6 games as a rookie is a poor playoff performance? Marner is 20 freaking years old, not 25 or 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm238 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 The more I think about it, the more I think it makes sense to wait until next year to trade Tanev. The D market is starting to look pretty saturated at this point. Plus, a Tanev / Juolevi pairing until the TDL next year would be pretty amazing for Juolevi's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Frogs is as frogs does. Still waiting on you to contribute to a hockey discussion. Over 12k posts of witty remarks, I wonder who the real fraud is. 4 hours ago, ilduce39 said: The problem with trading Baertschi is that as Bo’s wingman he has much more value to the team then what he will return in trade. I’ve heard say he’s replaceable, but until Virtanen/Granlund/Goldobin/Whoever actually step up and show they belong in the top 6 I don’t see anyone threatening his spot on Bo’s wing. Boiling him down to “a 25 year old who has never botched more than 35 points” is the most pessimistic slant you could possibly take on Baer. Still, I agree he’s not a great piece to trade at the moment because his trade value won’t match up with what he does for this team, which is pair with Bo to create a top 6 line with or without Boeser. Realistically, Baer is a filler until we can obtain someone else to pair up with Bo. Whether that’ll come through the draft or a trade no one knows but I don’t think Baer is a long-term solution to a top-6 role if we want to contend one day. Benning set out to find someone to fill the age gap and he did. Baer is also playing well for what it cost to get him. No qualms on my end but it doesn’t hurt to call it like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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