(Rumour) Maple Leafs Have Interest In Erik Gudbranson

[shiznak]

1 minute ago, coryberg said:

Brooks Orpik- 5 years, 5.5mil

Zack Bogosian- 7 years, 5.1mil

Andrew McDonald- 6 years, 5mil

Mark Methot- 4 years, 4.9mil

Paul martin- 4 years, 4.85mil

Brendan smith- 4 years 4.35mil

 

I could go on but there is no need. Cherry picking rfa deals that have gone well for certain teams is all fun and games.

And how many of those contracts are buyout candidates that those teams are regretting (which I already stated.)?

[ohmy]

18 minutes ago, shiznak said:

And how many of those contracts are buyout candidates that those teams are regretting (which I already stated.)?

I'd say 3 of them. Martin, McDonald, and Bogosian because of injury history. But that's a moot point because at the time they were signed that was there value. People can keep undervaluing Guddy all they want but clearly people in the know value what he brings. The only thing we should be discussing is what we are willing to pay which in my opinion is 4.5 a season tops. Either way he will get payed so either the gms are all stupid and all the keyboard warriors should be running the teams. Guddy will be an integral part of any team he plays on regardless of what others think. The same people that devalue him would fawn over the guy if you ever played on his team. Anyone who's played competitive hockey has played with a player of that nature. There is a presence they bring to a squad that will never be measured accurately. That's why everyone's  thoughts  on him are all over the place.

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, shiznak said:

I'm not undersell or oversell him at all. When it comes to Gudbranson, I'm pretty neutral. I don't use average ice-time or his poor advance stats as an argument for his worth on the team. Nor am I using my blind homerism to dictate his worth. 

 

I keep hearing "eye test" when Gudbranson's name comes up. Eye test is irrelevant when the opinion of his play comes from a bias view. The pro-Gudbranson crowd is always going to view him as a good shutdown guy, who plays hard minutes and the anti-Gudbranson crowd would always say he has limited attributes. 

 

From a neutral standpoint, he's a decent shutdown guy (yes, decent), who can log minutes and brings a physical element to the game that lacks in our defensive group, but will never be a guy you can rely on in key moments. Therefore, I can't justify  paying him more than 4.5M a season, even 4M is a stretch, just for his physical presence. There is always cheaper options on the open market, that could fill the void, if he isn't retain. 

 

Just for comparison sake:

Karl Alzner (age 24) - 4yrs, 2.8M per

• current contract - 5yrs, 4.6M

 

Mattias Ekholm - 6yrs, 3.75M per

Adam Larsson - 6yrs, 4.1M per

David Savard - 5yrs, 4.2M per

Rudko Gudas - 4yrs, 3.3Mper

 

Can you honestly say, Gudbranson should be paid more than any of these players? His worth is close to 3.5M - 4M, then 4M - 4.5M. 

Your examples largely include RFA years. They're not comparable. Sorry. 

 

And Poile should be charged with larceny for Ekholm's contract. It's a massive outlier (and again covers a couple RFA years iirc).

 

Alzner isn't a terrible comparison though for age, ability, contract status etc and as you note, signed for $4.625.

 

And calling him 2nd pair would = 'decent-good'. If I thought he was some sort of shut down shining light I'd call him a 1st pair D. Again, only countering the 'he's useless trash' nonsense. 

[oldnews]

43 minutes ago, ohmy said:

I'd say 3 of them. Martin, McDonald, and Bogosian because of injury history. But that's a moot point because at the time they were signed that was there value. People can keep undervaluing Guddy all they want but clearly people in the know value what he brings. The only thing we should be discussing is what we are willing to pay which in my opinion is 4.5 a season tops. Either way he will get payed so either the gms are all stupid and all the keyboard warriors should be running the teams. Guddy will be an integral part of any team he plays on regardless of what others think. The same people that devalue him would fawn over the guy if you ever played on his team. Anyone who's played competitive hockey has played with a player of that nature. There is a presence they bring to a squad that will never be measured accurately. That's why everyone's  thoughts  on him are all over the place.

I don't think Martin is anywhere near a buyout candidate - top 4 minutes, 3rd on SJ blueline in scoring - aside from his current injury, I doubt SJ has a problem with that contract (and injury is no grounds to consider a contract 'bad').

 

Bogosian is also a top 4, has respectable underlying numbers - is not a buyout candidate.  His current injury has nothing to do with his value relative to his contract - no GM can anticipate future injuries when signing players.

 

[The Lock]

On 11/30/2017 at 3:06 PM, guntrix said:

You call it loathing, I call it realism. People need to get over the fact that we're not the 2011 Canucks anymore. Superior teams don't need to massively prepare for a rebuilding bubble team. As much as it hurts one's pride, it is what it is. 

Complaining is not realism. It's the opposite of realism. lol

 

If anything....

 

[Me_]

Some very important news update on Gudbranson as of today; he's not going anywhere.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

You will see the importance’s of him come the playoffs. 

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, Me_ said:

Some very important news update on Gudbranson as of today; he's not going anywhere.

Did a little birdie tell you this or do you have a source?

[PhillipBlunt]

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

 

I'm going to slow clap away from your inability to comprehend why draft hype of 7 years ago and trade rumours aren't valid points. I've tried explaining but it seems that rose tint is a bit too thick. 

You keep circling your wagons around this same tired shtick. You haven't explained anything, merely took your same banal arrogant route. 

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

Rich coming from a guy with very questionable points. Had it been me pushing the "his draft hype matters" and "rumours are fair game" schlick, it would have been a different response.

You seem upset here, and awfully sore. Maybe take up Uno. 

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

Haven't mentioned stats in a while because I haven't needed to but please do keep pushing those. Have a glass of water while you parch yourself reaching for your narratives.

But I gave you the perfect opportunity to do so, and yet you didn't. I guess McLennan is right. 

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

You complain about cherry picking literally a few lines back and then you proceed to cherry pick one game. 

One game brought up as an example is cherry picking? Do you know the meaning of the term?

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

You complain about stats and you proceed to pick out Gud's stats (ironically, without any sort of context) against the Flyers.

Again, you say I complain about stats, when I have said that they have valid usage in the game. Once again, pull the cranius out of the anius and wake up. 

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

You, sir, are a walking contradiction and basically epitomize hypocrisy. Although I must admit it's funny seeing you trip over your own arguments every couple posts.

Sir? Hahaahahahhahahahahahahaahahahhahahahahaha. At least your mother raised you right. Epitomize hypocrisy? Wow. Cool. How? I'm not tripping over anything, but do enjoy the effort and passion you put into your posts. 

 

They are worth reading. 

21 hours ago, guntrix said:

I'll just resort to quoting your own material to answer your own points from now on.

Now you're just getting lazy, guntrix. C'mon man. 

[PhillipBlunt]

15 hours ago, sampy said:

Don't waste your energy trying to reason with PhillipBlunt. The guys a clown who gets off trolling and starting arguments about nothing.

Who are you? Outside of trying to give guntrix a reacharound, what is your point here? 

 

15 hours ago, sampy said:

Gudbranson plays an important physical and character role but is not worth over $5m. Hopefully he resigns for a reasonably cap hit.

That's right on the money. He won't be resigning though. He's far too young to retire. He should re-sign. 

 

Gudbranson is a necessary player in the playoffs. The Canucks will be back in the mix far sooner than many expect, and will need warriors to fight the fight. 

[guntrix]

12 hours ago, The Lock said:

Complaining is not realism. It's the opposite of realism. lol

 

If anything....

 

Tell me, how long did you wait for the opportunity to use that picture? 

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You keep circling your wagons around this same tired shtick. You haven't explained anything, merely took your same banal arrogant route. 

Someone help me out here and explain to him why draft hype and rumours aren't credible. I can't.

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You seem upset here, and awfully sore. Maybe take up Uno. 

An Uno joke? Get it together Phillip.

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

But I gave you the perfect opportunity to do so, and yet you didn't. I guess McLennan is right. 

So you apparently gave me the perfect opportunity to use stats yet you're the first one to complain when they're used for criticism. "Analyticzzz" amiright?

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

One game brought up as an example is cherry picking? Do you know the meaning of the term?

Cherry pick: "To selectively choose the most beneficial items from what is available." You picked a one game sample to support your argument.

 

Can't make it any more simple than than Phillip, although I'm willing to use apples and oranges if you need me to.

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Again, you say I complain about stats, when I have said that they have valid usage in the game. Once again, pull the cranius out of the anius and wake up. 

Yet I pulled the nice guy card and didn't go all #analyticzzzz on you when you used them. The problem is that on CDC, stats are wrong when they don't flatter a player and they're gospel when they do. It's a double standard. 

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Sir? Hahaahahahhahahahahahahaahahahhahahahahaha. At least your mother raised you right. Epitomize hypocrisy? Wow. Cool. How? I'm not tripping over anything, but do enjoy the effort and passion you put into your posts. 

 

They are worth reading. 

Now you're just getting lazy, guntrix. C'mon man. 

Yikes. Quite a far cry from your original content Phillip. I'm out.

[Canuck_In_Paradise]

Guddy would be a good addition to the Leafs, especially since they need a little protection for their young stars. But if Guddy were to be going there, I'd want a pretty nice package coming back our way. Young D + high draft pick at least. Mark my words, there will be a betting war if Guddy gets put up for auction on D-Day. We'll get a better package than most think I believe!  

[guntrix]

17 hours ago, ohmy said:

I'd say 3 of them. Martin, McDonald, and Bogosian because of injury history. But that's a moot point because at the time they were signed that was there value. People can keep undervaluing Guddy all they want but clearly people in the know value what he brings. The only thing we should be discussing is what we are willing to pay which in my opinion is 4.5 a season tops. Either way he will get payed so either the gms are all stupid and all the keyboard warriors should be running the teams. Guddy will be an integral part of any team he plays on regardless of what others think. The same people that devalue him would fawn over the guy if you ever played on his team. Anyone who's played competitive hockey has played with a player of that nature. There is a presence they bring to a squad that will never be measured accurately. That's why everyone's  thoughts  on him are all over the place.

But don't we want to agree to a contract that we won't regret in the future? That's basically the whole point of this conversation.

[ohmy]

2 hours ago, guntrix said:

But don't we want to agree to a contract that we won't regret in the future? That's basically the whole point of this conversation.

See that is your problem right there. Your attaching regret to a contract that isn't even signed yet. A 5 or 6 year deal around 4.5 is no worry.  He's worth every penny.

[JM_]

3 hours ago, ohmy said:

See that is your problem right there. Your attaching regret to a contract that isn't even signed yet. A 5 or 6 year deal around 4.5 is no worry.  He's worth every penny.

The new wrinkle in contracts though is the front-end heavy nature of many of them, making them buyout proof (one of the big concerns with Loui's contract prior to this year). I suspect to stay thats what Guddy will be able to get from us, maybe more than other teams offering the same money. And thats ok as long as we are not banking on a player getting better in the future and we like his game right now enough for that deal. If we're expecting Guddy to evolve into a top pairing guy and pay him that way then it would be a bad idea. But if you like his game now and think its built on a solid foundation of skill/size that will be consistent and are happy with 6 years of that at 4.5 AAV then good for us.

 

My bet is the offer will be structured very heavily to lots of cash in year 1 and 2, then as low as possible for the potential lockout year. So in actual dollars he might get offered a deal thats something like Horvat's where 2020/21 is really low. Other teams may not be willing to do that and he can only find that out if he goes to free agency, so he'd be risking losing a lot of cash with even the same cap hit if he went somewhere else and we do have a lockout year. 

 

 

[Nancouver]

9 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who are you? Outside of trying to give guntrix a reacharound, what is your point here? 

 

That's right on the money. He won't be resigning though. He's far too young to retire. He should re-sign. 

 

Gudbranson is a necessary player in the playoffs. The Canucks will be back in the mix far sooner than many expect, and will need warriors to fight the fight. 

Don't even bother with these trolls blunt, they're a bunch of negative nellies especially the frog. Guntrix posting on here usually consists of bashing guddy or virtanen, god forbid our team have an element of physicality lol

[oldnews]

8 hours ago, guntrix said:

But don't we want to agree to a contract that we won't regret in the future? That's basically the whole point of this conversation.

You must be from the future.

 

Oh wait - let's see how "from the future" you actually are.

 

 

On 3/19/2016 at 12:42 AM, guntrix said:

A defence man like Sbisa who brainfarts on command is most definitely not a #4/5 Dman. Maybe on our team he is, but definitely not a playoff team.

 

 

On 4/15/2016 at 11:16 PM, guntrix said:

The Shink paragraph is pure drivel.

 

You don't just trade someone just because there's no room for him NOW. Jeez, everyone's always clamouring to have a Detroit feeder system and now that we have prospects in the pipeline - and good ones at that - we trade them for guys like Granlund

 

The Sbisa contract...

The Dorsette contract...

The Miller contract...

 

 

On 5/26/2016 at 9:20 PM, guntrix said:

 if Sbisa's contract is anything to go by, this guy is getting at least 5.5 per. We can't keep signing guys like Sbisa, Dorsett, and potentially this guy to over-inflated contracts

 

On 7/8/2016 at 11:14 PM, guntrix said:

Let's keep telling ourselves that Benning did a good job on the Sbisa signing and that his contract is actually quite good 

 

While you're at it, tell us how Dorsett's contract was highway robbery. 

 

Yeah... Benning is not a negotiator... that much is true.

 

On 8/2/2016 at 11:48 PM, guntrix said:

If there's one thing Sbisa has proven is that he's not top 4 material... at least not on a team that strives to actually be competitive.

hmmm - top pairing in Vegas - a team that appears somewhat competitive.

 

On 8/3/2016 at 7:00 PM, guntrix said:

 Even if Dim Jim never manages to get his desired top 6 guy, Sbisa's cap hit will eventually become an issue for the role he's slated in. I know it; you know it; CDC knows it.

 

 

We have to be the only fan base stupid enough to think that the Shinkaruk trade puts us closer to becoming a contender. Even though Shink is unproven, I'd rather have a young scoring prospect who's experiencing success in the AHL over a fringe AHLer who's not only mediocre in all aspects but is also statistically declining ever since his grand 18 point season.

 

But hey, Granlund fills the age gap so we good. 

 

 

Prophetic stuff.

 

You've been thoroughly punked by Sbisa, Dorsett, Granlund (and no doubt others - only searched Sbisa LOL and all that came up.  Oh yeah, Miller says "hi" as well lol).

 

So yeah, keep chirping Gudbranson, your fortune-telling record has been stellar.

 

Jim Benning 4 

Guntrix  0

 

That'd be a sweep.  Series over.

 

But you don't seem satisfied with all those losses - are itching for another.

My money is on this one going to 5-0.

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

The new wrinkle in contracts though is the front-end heavy nature of many of them, making them buyout proof (one of the big concerns with Loui's contract prior to this year). 

And the only potential problem with that is if you sign guys until they're pushing 40 -- something Benning isn't doing.  Other teams however don't seem to be concerned.

[JM_]

57 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

And the only potential problem with that is if you sign guys until they're pushing 40 -- something Benning isn't doing.  Other teams however don't seem to be concerned.

good point. A medium-range contract for Guddy from 26-31/32 is right where you want to extended d-men as well. 

[oldnews]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

good point. A medium-range contract for Guddy from 26-31/32 is right where you want to extended d-men as well. 

Not only that - but 4-4.5-5 million is right in the line with what middle pairing D in this league are worth.

 

The Canucks have no $7/8 million #1.  They have Edler at $5, who, depending on their sustained competitiveness might be the principle asset they look to 'retool' if the team falls out of the race.  That is their most significant blueline cap hit.

The Canucks have an absolute steal in Tanev at 4.6 - one of the league's premier shutdown and puck possession defensemen -quietly elite in a number of aspects of his game.

The Canucks have no D that are pushing to take significant cap.

They have Del Zotto at 3 million, who also complements their top 4.

 

So Benning has positioned the blueline to be very healthy in terms of cap and flexibility.  Hutton another year and remains an RFA, Stecher and Pouliot poised for modest bridge contracts and will remain RFAs.    And imo, Juolevi, McEneny, Chatfield et al also pose realistic depth potential emerging in the next year or two. 

 

Benning has proven his critics wrong on the Dorsett, Sbisa, Sutter deals - heavily criticized by people with flaky hockey knowledge.

I trust he has a pretty solid concept of Gudbranson's value.