(Rumour) Maple Leafs Have Interest In Erik Gudbranson

[aGENT]

19 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

He's a contributing editor on Canucks Army. He's all about (poorly understood and utilized) analytics and consistently bashes players that don't fit in to that perfect stat window. 

FTFY 

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

Pretty tragic that the panthers fell so hard in one year when they went to analytics. That was some Mike Keenan GM level scortched earth.

 

Phoenix hasn't improved at all under their young blood analytics crew. So many questionable moves, that one at the draft was a huge head shaker. The team is horrible and rebuilding so you trade your 8th overall pick and a former 1st rounder for 27 year old derek stephan's 6.5mil 4 year NTC boat anchor contract and a 28 year old backup. Could you imagine if Benning traded the Pettersson picķ for that return?

 

Analytics is nice to reference but if you are making hockey decisions based mostly on those instead of actual hockey sense you are in trouble.

 

 

With you on this CB ,  I find analytics work better in the individual, or stop and go team sports.  By "stop and go" I mean BaseBall, Football, and BasketBall. .  Where a team has significant time to set up or organize a specific offensive or defensive play.

Patterns can be followed.

Hockey, apart from the PP, PK,. is a roll over, non stop, high speed sport.   Systems have been created, patterns in flow, that usually try to create an error for an offensive opportunity.

Easy to say that a certain D man didn't pick up his man,.  But did a play occur because the puck was turned over in the offensive end by a forward?

To me Analytics in Hockey are far over used by some..   

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

Pretty tragic that the panthers fell so hard in one year when they went to analytics. That was some Mike Keenan GM level scortched earth.

 

Phoenix hasn't improved at all under their young blood analytics crew. So many questionable moves, that one at the draft was a huge head shaker. The team is horrible and rebuilding so you trade your 8th overall pick and a former 1st rounder for 27 year old derek stephan's 6.5mil 4 year NTC boat anchor contract and a 28 year old backup. Could you imagine if Benning traded the Pettersson picķ for that return?

 

Analytics is nice to reference but if you are making hockey decisions based mostly on those instead of actual hockey sense you are in trouble.

The big problem in Florida is they keep going too far to each side.

 

The pure analytics approach that Rowe took led to some questionable decisions. However, the team was still decent last season - but they were obliterated by injuries. But Tallon has been even worse since he came back in. His efforts to undo everything the previous regime was doing made him give away Smith and Marchessault, in order to protect his remaining character/tough D-man Petrovic...who has been a healthy scratch multiple times this season. It was basically throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

Each side - old school and analytics - has something to offer. A good example of this is Tampa signing Dan Girardi. The analytics crew claimed he was the worst player in the league, and had no place on an NHL team. And yet, used in the right situations, he has been effective in Tampa. Cooper raves about him. Obviously the naysayers have something to learn.

[oldnews]

23 minutes ago, D-Money said:

The big problem in Florida is they keep going too far to each side.

 

The pure analytics approach that Rowe took led to some questionable decisions. However, the team was still decent last season - but they were obliterated by injuries. But Tallon has been even worse since he came back in. His efforts to undo everything the previous regime was doing made him give away Smith and Marchessault, in order to protect his remaining character/tough D-man Petrovic...who has been a healthy scratch multiple times this season. It was basically throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

the team still had some pretty damn good pieces - drafted by Tallon in the first place.

 

I think you're bending context with that second bolded context - Tallon got the honours of coming in and having to dump cap after a failure to make the playoffs - it's not a simple as 'trying to undo what the previous regime did.'    And keeping Petrovic in the absence of Gudbranson is not really questionable - Petrovic has shown what he can do over larger samples than early struggles this year.

[coryberg]

53 minutes ago, D-Money said:

 the team was still decent last season - but they were obliterated by injuries. 

 

The 2016 team lost significant time from barkov, bjugstad, petrovic, mitchell and gudbranson due to injuries. Won their division with 103 points. 6th overall in the NHL

 

The 2017 team lost significant time from Barkov, bjugstad, petrovic, and Huberdeau due to injury. 12 less wins, 22 less points, missed the playoffs. 23rd overall in the NHL.

 

[Ossi Vaananen]

Prout, Alt, and now Gryba all on waivers in the last two days. The demand for a physical D is at an all-time low. I'd be surprised if we moved him at all. 

[Screw]

It will be a mistake if the Canucks can not find a way to sign #44.   He has had a horrifically rough start and not played his best hockey yet.

[Rush17]

5 hours ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

Prout, Alt, and now Gryba all on waivers in the last two days. The demand for a physical D is at an all-time low. I'd be surprised if we moved him at all. 

All of whom are sub par defenders.  Al though Gudbranson's play has been less them spectactular he does have the 1 season of huge minutes in the regular/post season the year prior to us acquiring him.  Based on him being only 25 still with room to grow it makes his value stand above the value of those wavier wire pickups.  Just because Gudbranson isn't getting top 4 minutes in our system which isn't best suited for his role does not mean he does not have immense value.  You can disagree but that's how I look at it.

[Ossi Vaananen]

31 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

All of whom are sub par defenders.  Al though Gudbranson's play has been less them spectactular he does have the 1 season of huge minutes in the regular/post season the year prior to us acquiring him.  Based on him being only 25 still with room to grow it makes his value stand above the value of those wavier wire pickups.  Just because Gudbranson isn't getting top 4 minutes in our system which isn't best suited for his role does not mean he does not have immense value.  You can disagree but that's how I look at it.

I'd say at 25, he's as close to a finished product as you're going to get. His defensive game may be marginally better than those mentioned, but Gudbranson gets beat a lot. If we're still holding up his value for his last season with Florida, well those days are gone.  Honestly, even those promoting his use as a guy that clear the front of the net can be easily challenged by Cheech's lengthy rant on crashing our goaltenders last night; no one comes in to protect them. Nonetheless the absurd belief that his presence scares people continues.  I'm finding it increasingly difficult to view Gudbranson as valuable and necessary. 

[VIC_CITY]

36 minutes ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

I'd say at 25, he's as close to a finished product as you're going to get. His defensive game may be marginally better than those mentioned, but Gudbranson gets beat a lot. If we're still holding up his value for his last season with Florida, well those days are gone.  Honestly, even those promoting his use as a guy that clear the front of the net can be easily challenged by Cheech's lengthy rant on crashing our goaltenders last night; no one comes in to protect them. Nonetheless the absurd belief that his presence scares people continues.  I'm finding it increasingly difficult to view Gudbranson as valuable and necessary. 

I think the fact that he's in his 7th NHL season, is more telling than his age. I don't think there's many comparibles (defensemen that entered the league at 18) but for the most part, you're probably right when you say what you see is what you get. The problem is that we have 2 groups of people watching the same player and seeing 2 different things. So his value is completely unknown at this point. We may just find out soon though, as Tanev should be back any day now. 

 

[ilduce39]

2 hours ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

I'd say at 25, he's as close to a finished product as you're going to get. His defensive game may be marginally better than those mentioned, but Gudbranson gets beat a lot. If we're still holding up his value for his last season with Florida, well those days are gone.  Honestly, even those promoting his use as a guy that clear the front of the net can be easily challenged by Cheech's lengthy rant on crashing our goaltenders last night; no one comes in to protect them. Nonetheless the absurd belief that his presence scares people continues.  I'm finding it increasingly difficult to view Gudbranson as valuable and necessary. 

I completely disagree with this logic.

 

If something happens that you don’t like, and a guy who has the ability to curb it doesn’t.... you work with the guy to make sure he does something next time.  

 

You don’t discard him because one game he didn’t do what you wanted.  He’s also, in the past, fought Matt Martin with a bad wrist to stick up for Stecher so it’s not like he’s never stuck up for a teammate. 

 

He’s not some magical barrier that makes it impossible to run our goalies / players... but he’s darn well still our best bet to do something about it when it happens.  

 

I’d wager once he gets his groove / confidence back he’ll be knocking heads again too.

[oldnews]

On 12/28/2017 at 6:34 PM, Provost said:

Ya, that Jared McCann is burning it up in the NHL.  Where could you replace a skill guy that is on pace for 25 points?

 

The players that were selected with those picks are also just killing it.
 

We could replace those 25 pts for an Andrej Pedan and a 4th.....and put those points where they are more difficult to produce and are more needed - on our blueline - in the form of Pouliot, who's on pace for 26....

 

In any event, I don't think this team is anywhere near as in need of a skilled forward / McCann - (Pettersson, Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Boeser, Virtanen, Goldobin, Dahlen, Lind, Gaudette, Gadjovich, Lockwood...) as they are a big, physical, solid, mobile RHD...(? who other than Gud fits that description?)

[oldnews]

13 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

I completely disagree with this logic.

 

If something happens that you don’t like, and a guy who has the ability to curb it doesn’t.... you work with the guy to make sure he does something next time.  

 

You don’t discard him because one game he didn’t do what you wanted.  He’s also, in the past, fought Matt Martin with a bad wrist to stick up for Stecher so it’s not like he’s never stuck up for a teammate. 

 

He’s not some magical barrier that makes it impossible to run our goalies / players... but he’s darn well still our best bet to do something about it when it happens.  

 

I’d wager once he gets his groove / confidence back he’ll be knocking heads again too.

His principle value to this team is not as a face-puncher in any event - it's as a hard hitting, mobile stay at home D.

And already in the absence of Tanev, it would not surprise me if he's been asked/instructed not to take too many risks with the health of that wrist - crashing up against opponent helmets or faces - not worth it.

Half the 'net crashing' that's occured recently have been opponents run into our goaltender by our D - in due course - as happens all the time in the NHL.   Ie Hayden getting hit by Pouliot and running into Markstrom as a result - no reason to lose one's head over it.

Could we use more toughness in the lineup right now - of course they could in the absence of Dorsett.   Gudbranson's importance is just that much more obvious - but we need him on the ice and in the lineup right now, so I have no problem if he turns down the enforcement element under the circumstances, at the very least picking his spots.

[ilduce39]

31 minutes ago, oldnews said:

His principle value to this team is not as a face-puncher in any event - it's as a hard hitting, mobile stay at home D.

And already in the absence of Tanev, it would not surprise me if he's been asked/instructed not to take too many risks with the health of that wrist - crashing up against opponent helmets or faces - not worth it.

Half the 'net crashing' that's occured recently have been opponents run into our goaltender by our D - in due course - as happens all the time in the NHL.   Ie Hayden getting hit by Pouliot and running into Markstrom as a result - no reason to lose one's head over it.

Could we use more toughness in the lineup right now - of course they could in the absence of Dorsett.   Gudbranson's importance is just that much more obvious - but we need him on the ice and in the lineup right now, so I have no problem if he turns down the enforcement element under the circumstances, at the very least picking his spots.

Agreed - also recently coming back from injury and missing so much time last year I’m sure he’s feeling rusty - better to focus on getting comfortable as a hockey player since, as you’ve correctly pointed out, he’s a defenseman first before a fighter. 

[Sugar baby watermelon]

rumours coming out that it might an Atlantic team he is dealt to.  Montreal needs a tough dman with Weber out, (hearing Mete and a 2nd & now I see on here it is a false rumour haha nm on that one), Toronto has been in the mix for how long, (who comes back for him though Carrick maybe.  the Laffs are not giving up on Marner that easily), Florida has been in there as well, (I have heard Petrovic and Malgin, but I think Malgin is out, too small and he has played well for them recently), or Ottawa with their whole messed up season and Karlsson and the Ottawa mgmt team at odds with each other.

[oldnews]

"My sources" are telling me that Gudbranson re-signs shortly after the clock strikes 12 on Dec 31.

 

Happy New Year Canucks fans.

 

 

[SingleThorn]

The original rumour about a Gudbranson trade was 'Demers for Gudbranson'. Is there a reputable source for this ? I can understand that we would know that Demers turned down "a" trade, but why would he or anyone know it was for Gudbranson ? Doesn't smell right. An annoying TV judge said 'if it doesn't make sense, it's probably a lie'. I think that the details of this non-trade have been spread by Pratt on am1040 and those auctioneers on speed from am650.

[Rush17]

57 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

The original rumour about a Gudbranson trade was 'Demers for Gudbranson'. Is there a reputable source for this ? I can understand that we would know that Demers turned down "a" trade, but why would he or anyone know it was for Gudbranson ? Doesn't smell right. An annoying TV judge said 'if it doesn't make sense, it's probably a lie'. I think that the details of this non-trade have been spread by Pratt on am1040 and those auctioneers on speed from am650.

beileve there were more pieces coming back.

[Rush17]

i wish there was more juice leaking from this squeezed fruit. appears pretty dry.   i can see us re-signing him then flipping him in a season or 2.  he hasn't had a stellar year by any means.  his cap hit may be a tad higher then we like but i think we would do alright signing and keeping for a year or 2 before flipping.

[rekker]

2 hours ago, Rush17 said:

i wish there was more juice leaking from this squeezed fruit. appears pretty dry.   i can see us re-signing him then flipping him in a season or 2.  he hasn't had a stellar year by any means.  his cap hit may be a tad higher then we like but i think we would do alright signing and keeping for a year or 2 before flipping.

This may have to be the approach. There is a lot invested in him. Would be lucky to get a second for him at the moment. I like his game though. Would be happy to have him stick around.