Quinn Hughes | #43 | D

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

I'm not sure if he'll be nominated, but his points will get him a lot of votes/points, maybe even more than they should.

 

Karlsson might win, but I'll be admittedly frustrated if he does. Current Karlsson is not as good defensively as old Karlsson was. Right now, he's all offense--back in his Ottawa days, he could do both. Morrissey and Hamilton are also both quite heavily focused on offense. I see a guy like Dahlin or Makar as the best choices, but we'll see how it plays out. A lot of voters still don't do enough work in deciding their votes for these more complex awards.

 

Karlsson is leading his team in scoring and has 30 more points than the next highest scorer on his team.  No defenseman has ever done that or anything close to it in NHL history I am pretty sure.  Not just never but nothing close.

 

Unless Karlsson is scoring on his own net every second game this one is his and I'd give it to him myself.  But I do probably have Hughes at #2 this year.

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Karlsson is leading his team in scoring and has 30 more points than the next highest scorer on his team.  No defenseman has ever done that or anything close to it in NHL history I am pretty sure.  Not just never but nothing close.

 

Unless Karlsson is scoring on his own net every second game this one is his and I'd give it to him myself.  But I do probably have Hughes at #2 this year.

He's pretty amazing offensively, but I just have a tough time giving the Norris to a defenseman who is average at best defensively, especially considering that is the primary role of the position. I feel that it should be a near requirement that any Norris contender be a strong all-around defenseman and those who specialize in only one category should almost never be seriously considered. Karlsson's offensive output is so amazing this year that he can be at least looked at, but personally, I have him maybe edging into my top 10 at best.

 

I'd take guys like Pietrangelo, Makar, Sergachev, Hedman, and Dahlin ahead of Karlsson just based on their far more well-rounded game.

 

All that said, I would be shocked if he's not at least top 3 based on his points alone. People are more wowed by points than a good defensive block or takeaway.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

He's pretty amazing offensively, but I just have a tough time giving the Norris to a defenseman who is average at best defensively, especially considering that is the primary role of the position. I feel that it should be a near requirement that any Norris contender be a strong all-around defenseman and those who specialize in only one category should almost never be seriously considered. Karlsson's offensive output is so amazing this year that he can be at least looked at, but personally, I have him maybe edging into my top 10 at best.

 

I'd take guys like Pietrangelo, Makar, Sergachev, Hedman, and Dahlin ahead of Karlsson just based on their far more well-rounded game.

 

All that said, I would be shocked if he's not at least top 3 based on his points alone. People are more wowed by points than a good defensive block or takeaway.

 

I agree with you to a good extent.  Rod Langway is really the only guy in the last 50 years to win the Norris without being a top offensive defenseman.  I thought guys like Brad Marsh, Brad McCrimmon, etc. deserved more consideration...and I was glad to see Harold Snepsts and Garth Butcher in the all star game.  But if Karlsson gets 100 points, that is an achievement equal to McDavid's 150 points if he gets there...on top of the not just unprecedented but previously unimaginable points differential between a defenseman and the #2 scorer on his own team.  It's very difficult to put into words how impossible it is for a defenseman to lead his team in scoring and do it by 30+ points.

 

Karlsson has been in on 43% of his team's goals...that's with a goal or an assist, not just being on the ice.  Bobby Orr achieved that percentage...once.  In Bobby Orr's next three best seasons it was 39%, 35% and 35%.

 

Take Karlsson out of the picture and his team isn't 20-39-15.  They are probably something like 10-55-9.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[-AJ-]

24 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I agree with you to a good extent.  Rod Langway is really the only guy in the last 50 years to win the Norris without being a top offensive defenseman.  I thought guys like Brad Marsh, Brad McCrimmon, etc. deserved more consideration...and I was glad to see Harold Snepsts and Garth Butcher in the all star game.  But if Karlsson gets 100 points, that is an achievement equal to McDavid's 150 points if he gets there...on top of the not just unprecedented but previously unimaginable points differential between a defenseman and the #2 scorer on his own team.  It's very difficult to put into words how impossible it is for a defenseman to lead his team in scoring and do it by 30+ points.

 

Karlsson has been in on 43% of his team's goals...that's with a goal or an assist, not just being on the ice.  Bobby Orr achieved that percentage...once.  In Bobby Orr's next three best seasons it was 39%, 35% and 35%.

 

Take Karlsson out of the picture and his team isn't 20-39-15.  They are probably something like 10-55-9.

 

Good points--you make a fair case. Maybe his defensive averageness can be overlooked more than I am simply due to how incredible he is performing offensively.

[HKSR]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:47 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Karlsson is leading his team in scoring and has 30 more points than the next highest scorer on his team.  No defenseman has ever done that or anything close to it in NHL history I am pretty sure.  Not just never but nothing close.

 

Unless Karlsson is scoring on his own net every second game this one is his and I'd give it to him myself.  But I do probably have Hughes at #2 this year.

Karlsson over 82 games is on pace for 99 points.

Hughes is on pace for 80 points (wouldn't surprise me to see him finish with 82 to 84 points given his torrid pace lately).

 

Josi last year had 96 points.

Makar had 86 points and won the Norris.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if Hughes pulled off something similar.

 

Out of the top 5 defencemen in scoring, Hughes is:

 

2nd in points

2nd in TOI

3rd in +/-

1st in puck possession minutes

 

Definitely has a shot at it this year.

[nergish]

Quinn for captain? 

 

I've been on record saying that I thought he'd wear the C one day (maybe as a grizzled veteran), but I think he's separated himself from the pack as the true leader of this team.

 

In terms of sheer Xs and Os, Hughes understands the game better than anyone in our system. That's who you want leading the charge.

Scott Niedermayer vibes.

Edited April 9, 2023 by nergish

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Quote

Been told Quinn Hughes will not play for the USA at the upcoming world hockey championships.

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1ss9cct

[-DLC-]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[McBackup]

So this is what Quinn means when he says "going undercover".

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[-AJ-]

17 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Petey feels more like captain material to me, but Hughes seems to be more interested in the role than Petey, so it may fit better with Hughes for that reason.

[McBackup]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Petey feels more like captain material to me

Why? Genuinely asking. Is it because he's the prototypical elite centre while Quinn is the undersized defenseman? Is it because Petey is (arguably) the better player? Is it because he was the ray of hope we were waiting for when he was drafted? Is it because he's bigger?

 

We have no idea what these guys personalities are actually like in the room, just what gets presented to us as outsiders. Petey's personality never struck me as particularly "captain-material" (I'm not saying that in a negative way, but some people have personalities better suited to certain roles, and others have personalities better suited to other roles). To be fair, neither did Quinn, but in a different way. But if all the scuttlebutt coming from people actually in the organization is that Quinn has really evolved into a leader on the team, I don't really have much choice but to take their word for it. Especially if Petey doesn't seem to be trending to it in the same way. 

 

I suspect once Pettersson is signed long term, the captaincy will be there for him if he wants it. But if he doesn't want it he might be better off just focusing on his game. Bure was the best player on the team but not the captain. 

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Why? Genuinely asking. Is it because he's the prototypical elite centre while Quinn is the undersized defenseman? Is it because Petey is (arguably) the better player? Is it because he was the ray of hope we were waiting for when he was drafted? Is it because he's bigger?

 

We have no idea what these guys personalities are actually like in the room, just what gets presented to us as outsiders. Petey's personality never struck me as particularly "captain-material" (I'm not saying that in a negative way, but some people have personalities better suited to certain roles, and others have personalities better suited to other roles). To be fair, neither did Quinn, but in a different way. But if all the scuttlebutt coming from people actually in the organization is that Quinn has really evolved into a leader on the team, I don't really have much choice but to take their word for it. Especially if Petey doesn't seem to be trending to it in the same way. 

 

I suspect once Pettersson is signed long term, the captaincy will be there for him if he wants it. But if he doesn't want it he might be better off just focusing on his game. Bure was the best player on the team but not the captain. 

Bure is a bad example.  He could barely speak English and Linden was already the captain when he arrived.  Petey is similar to Hank.  Hank was also quiet but established himself later on when he got into his prime years.

 

IMO, neither Petey or Hughes should be the captain right now.  They should give it to Miller.  He definitely feels comfortable with the interviews, speaks his mind, stands up for his teammates and is much older and more mature.

 

If Miller leaves at some point then you can give it to either Petey or Hughes, as we will have a better idea in a few years which player steps up more and which one is still around.

[-AJ-]

41 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Why? Genuinely asking. Is it because he's the prototypical elite centre while Quinn is the undersized defenseman? Is it because Petey is (arguably) the better player? Is it because he was the ray of hope we were waiting for when he was drafted? Is it because he's bigger?

 

We have no idea what these guys personalities are actually like in the room, just what gets presented to us as outsiders. Petey's personality never struck me as particularly "captain-material" (I'm not saying that in a negative way, but some people have personalities better suited to certain roles, and others have personalities better suited to other roles). To be fair, neither did Quinn, but in a different way. But if all the scuttlebutt coming from people actually in the organization is that Quinn has really evolved into a leader on the team, I don't really have much choice but to take their word for it. Especially if Petey doesn't seem to be trending to it in the same way. 

 

I suspect once Pettersson is signed long term, the captaincy will be there for him if he wants it. But if he doesn't want it he might be better off just focusing on his game. Bure was the best player on the team but not the captain. 

Honestly, it just feels like Petey plays harder and with more intensity than Hughes. I feel like I would get more inspired by watching him than I would Hughes.

 

Neither guy feels much like a natural leader like Horvat was, but both could be Naslund-type leaders that lead by example. You're correct in that we don't know what goes on in the locker room and that's the most important to the leader of the team--though that said, the "C" is almost more of a media role than an actual team role anyway. The fact that Hughes seems to have been more open about leadership with the media to me implies that he may be more willing to take on those media responsibilities than Petey.

[McBackup]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Bure is a bad example.  He could barely speak English and Linden was already the captain when he arrived.  Petey is similar to Hank.  Hank was also quiet but established himself later on when he got into his prime years.

 

IMO, neither Petey or Hughes should be the captain right now.  They should give it to Miller.  He definitely feels comfortable with the interviews, speaks his mind, stands up for his teammates and is much older and more mature.

 

If Miller leaves at some point then you can give it to either Petey or Hughes, as we will have a better idea in a few years which player steps up more and which one is still around.

Again, we don't know what these players are actually like behind closed doors. We just have the image presented to us as fans. The Bure example is on point because the argument I was trying to make is that your best player does not necessarily have to be your captain, which is the perspective a lot of people have. Not saying that is @-AJ-'s opinion, but its a common refrain you hear around the league, that I don't necessarily buy.

 

 

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

Honestly, it just feels like Petey plays harder and with more intensity than Hughes. I feel like I would get more inspired by watching him than I would Hughes.

 

Neither guy feels much like a natural leader like Horvat was, but both could be Naslund-type leaders that lead by example. You're correct in that we don't know what goes on in the locker room and that's the most important to the leader of the team--though that said, the "C" is almost more of a media role than an actual team role anyway. The fact that Hughes seems to have been more open about leadership with the media to me implies that he may be more willing to take on those media responsibilities than Petey.

I don't necessarily feel that way, I just think their games are different. Quinn plays a much calmer, much more quiet style. But I don't think that means he plays any softer. I've also seen Petey give up on plays and sulk far more than Quinn has during their tenures as Canucks. I'm not saying that to denigrate Petey, just offering up a different perspective.

 

I also question the "natural leader" thing about Horvat. I know crapping on Horvat is all the rage right now, but this has nothing to do with his "better than Vancouver" comments. When Bo was drafted, he was the first real, young impact player we'd gotten in a long time. He was the first prospect we'd gotten to lead the new generation of Canucks. He was well spoken, and always did what he was "supposed" to do or say what he was supposed to say. It felt like Bo was pre-ordained to be the Captain by the media and fanbase because he was what we had at the time, and people just kept churning along with that. Its the same as his alleged defensive prowess. Bo was supposed to be an elite defensive centre in the mold of Ryan O'Reilly, and everyone just kept up with the narrative because thats how it was supposed to be. With the benefit of hindsight, Bo was not a horrible captain or anything. But he also presided over some extremely turbulent years and alleged issues with the culture in the room that make you question how much of a natural leader he was. I think he was more of a "natural spokesman" than anything. 

 

I'm not saying that to denigrate Horvat either, I'm just emphasizing how we have skewed perspectives as fans and that the concept of what makes the ideal consideration should be up for discussion given where this team is at.

[rizzuto&hatoum]

What's on Quinn's mind watching his bros in the 2nd round?

Apparently, he watched Game 3 on TV as he just had his tonsils taken out , as per the last minute in this clip, you know.

(The first 15 'you knows' were from Jack's first response.)

 

 

[wildcam]

On 5/4/2023 at 1:57 PM, -AJ- said:

Petey feels more like captain material to me, but Hughes seems to be more interested in the role than Petey, so it may fit better with Hughes for that reason.

Hughes is so well spoken and would be a fantastic captain.. The way he plays on the ice and when he talks others listen.. Very serious mature young man since first game in Vancouver.. Only 24 years old in October so many great years a head..

[Ted Lasso]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:57 PM, wildcam said:

Hughes is so well spoken and would be a fantastic captain.. The way he plays on the ice and when he talks others listen.. Very serious mature young man since first game in Vancouver.. Only 24 years old in October so many great years a head..

Crazy that he’s nearly a PPG defensemen at 23…