How injuries are affecting management decisions

[canuckledraggin]

https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostNHL

 

If you dig into the statistics of "man games lost" for the last 3 seasons, then you can see why management is forced to make the decisions that they are making.

 

In 15/16 there were 360 man game lost. In 16/17 there were 439. Last season there were 302 man games lost. That is literally 4 players lost for an entire season during those years. It brought about the need to bring in Biega as a regular and teams that have played 11 or more defensemen during a single season.

 

Our prospect pool is as deep as it's ever been, but for all that depth, it remains to be seen how many of those players will get an opportunity based on how many injuries occur.

 

I'm all for the recent signings, because they provide the kind of depth that successful teams need and in the case of Jay Beagle, an elite faceoff guy in the mold of Manny Malholtra. I have no doubt that Manny would have lead the Canucks to a cup.

 

This thread was mainly to emphasize why we need to sign Quinn Hughes. The kid is a pro in every sense of the word. If they decide that he isn't ready for the NHL, then he can join Demko, Gaudette, Dahlen, Joulevi, Lind, Palmu, MacEwen and Gadjovich, to become a part of an amazing group of prospects.

 

If Hughes can push his way on to the team then we are that much further along for the rebuild, but they are forced to make their decisions on recent history. How can they make decisions based on losing 4 players for an entire season?

[189lb enforcers?]

Pattern, predictable injuries, year after year. 

These lead to the accidental tanks and multiple years of high picks.

 

This is ultimately why the prospect pool is doing so well. 

Silver linings.  

 

Feel free to either credit management for the pool or discredit their choice in injury-riddled roster selections. It works out the same, regardless. Don’t change a thing, Aquaman. 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

8 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostNHL

 

If you dig into the statistics of "man games lost" for the last 3 seasons, then you can see why management is forced to make the decisions that they are making.

 

In 15/16 there were 360 man game lost. In 16/17 there were 439. Last season there were 302 man games lost. That is literally 4 players lost for an entire season during those years. It brought about the need to bring in Biega as a regular and teams that have played 11 or more defensemen during a single season.

 

its certainly a big part of it, being too easy to play against doesn't help on the injury front. But along with a bit of pushback we should be a decent possession team as well with Bo, Sutter and Beagle all being over 50% on face offs. 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Remember when Gillis had all those off-ice programs (sleep-experts, travel-experts, literally any expert that might conceivably give us an advantage)?  And, remember how Benning killed all those programs, like he turfed our salary-cap and contract expert?  Well, it's not a coincidence that we're getting injured more nowadays.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Remember when Gillis had all those off-ice programs (sleep-experts, travel-experts, literally any expert that might conceivably give us an advantage)?  And, remember how Benning killed all those programs, like he turfed our salary-cap and contract expert?  Well, it's not a coincidence that we're getting injured more nowadays.

I think we get injured more now than before JB, because we are not as good a team.  Back then, we were really good, had the puck a lot, and spent much of the game in the O Zone.  Now we chase the game, and defend a lot more.  As our young super stars, especially Hughes, start to play we will see the injury numbers drop.  

[PhillipBlunt]

I do think having a mix of larger, physical, aggressive players that insulate the upcoming talented rookies helps to lessen injuries, but it does also depend on the type of injuries players are sustaining.

 

Not every one of them is avoidable. Take Tanev's mouth injury. That's a lot harder to avoid, due to the unpredictability of the puck (bounces, deflections) than seeing a forward bearing down on you in the corner, and not attempting to lessen the impact by adjusting position.

 

I think there is a psychological aspect in play as well. If a team has a reputation for being pushed around and not responding to aggression, that team will most likely subconsciously adjust their style of play, and allow a certain level of anxiety to permeate all aspects of play. If the team can insulate the roster with size and ferocity, there will be more confidence instilled throughout the roster (the adage of everyone playing bigger) and the team will play with more confidence and be less apt to make decisions based on anxiety.

 

Just spitballing really, I could be totally wrong. I do believe though that teams that don't follow trends, and instead bolster their roster with a variance of player types is going to be able to achieve greater success over the long run. Being able to adapt to varying types of playing styles makes a team better, and more cohesive.

[Jester13]

18 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Remember when Gillis had all those off-ice programs (sleep-experts, travel-experts, literally any expert that might conceivably give us an advantage)?  And, remember how Benning killed all those programs, like he turfed our salary-cap and contract expert?  Well, it's not a coincidence that we're getting injured more nowadays.

Now that you've made this statement, it would be great if you could provide some proof that it isn't a coincidence and instead a direct cause; otherwise it's simply an empty statement. 

[Psycho_Path]

3 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Remember when Gillis had all those off-ice programs (sleep-experts, travel-experts, literally any expert that might conceivably give us an advantage)?  And, remember how Benning killed all those programs, like he turfed our salary-cap and contract expert?  Well, it's not a coincidence that we're getting injured more nowadays.

Totally. Boeser falling into an open door and injuring his back was 100% because some program that you think isn't in place isn't in place.

 

On an actual note, we played more defensemen during the season due to injuries in 2010-2011 than any season Benning's been our GM for and during his tenure, on average Benning's teams have had to dress less defensemen than during Gillis' tenure as GM.

['NucK™]

34 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Now that you've made this statement, it would be great if you could provide some proof that it isn't a coincidence and instead a direct cause; otherwise it's simply an empty statement. 

I think you have to assume that having better sleep/travel would improve recovery time and thus decrease injuries. 

 

I would however like to see the proof that JB cancelled these programs.. 

[TheGuardian_]

All teams get injuries, it is the game. If a team has less injuries it is a headliner.

For the Canucks, the lack of depth and experience makes just about any injury more damaging.

 

FYI, some of the injury stats are from AHL players called up, fringe players that don't make as much of a difference. The Tort's year is still more significant for "core" players missing games and man games lost, combined with the compressed schedule and lack of practice time.

 

Dorsett, Boucher, Leipisic, Guance, represent 107 games missed. It is not how many games as it is who missing.

[Jester13]

31 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

I think you have to assume that having better sleep/travel would improve recovery time and thus decrease injuries. 

 

I would however like to see the proof that JB cancelled these programs.. 

I really don't think shots in the foot, face, etc. have anything to do with recovery time, though, but rather bad puck luck.

[Dr. Crossbar]

Well, certainly how teams view, assess, and manage injuries has evolved over the years. It's so much more a pre-cautionary from an investment standpoint.

 

I wonder how many of our injuries over the past three seasons could have actually been played through (or were in years past). I'm not saying any should have been played through, I wonder if we might have a slightly different threshold for assessing risk. Especially since we were so thin on depth. 

 

At the same time, because of the lack of depth and inexperience, far too many of our guys were forced to do too much, scrambling out of position, which sets us up for more injuries. This definitely aligns with our placement in the standings over the past three seasons.

 

The additions of Beagle, Roussel, and Schaller will give us more depth and durability. 

 

But it'll be interesting to see if these guys suddenly become more injury prone than usual by coming to Vancouver.

 

[DADDYROCK]

As we look at all the injury's on the Canucks we do have to consider the amount of travel Vancouver has in comparison to the eastern teams.

For me I do think it has to factor into these assessments of injury's,some teams in the east go out of their own time zones a few times a year and the schedules should reflect this and try to adjust for this,not have the western teams jumping all over the map all the time.

Then again Toronto is in the east,right.

['NucK™]

2 hours ago, Jester13 said:

I really don't think shots in the foot, face, etc. have anything to do with recovery time, though, but rather bad puck luck.

Well has anyone done an analysis on how many injuries were due to bad "puck luck" vs. muscle strains etc. that often result from poor recovery?

 

It's still very possible that our puck luck is the same as before but the increase in games lost due to injury is actually due to recovery time.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, 'NucK™ said:

Well has anyone done an analysis on how many injuries were due to bad "puck luck" vs. muscle strains etc. that often result from poor recovery?

 

It's still very possible that our puck luck is the same as before but the increase in games lost due to injury is actually due to recovery time.

I'm working on it.....

[Nuxfanabroad]

^Should find the missing link to all this...

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

^Should find the missing link to all this...

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

We don't need Jane Goodall to interpret the wisdom, eh?..

[Dr. Crossbar]

17 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Looks like he picked the Oilers as the Canadian team with the highest point total in 2017-18.

[Me_]

14 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Pattern, predictable injuries, year after year. 

These lead to the accidental tanks and multiple years of high picks.

 

This is ultimately why the prospect pool is doing so well. 

Silver linings.  

 

Feel free to either credit management for the pool or discredit their choice in injury-riddled roster selections. It works out the same, regardless. Don’t change a thing, Aquaman. 

 

 

 

 

That’s why some teams, when they get an injured player, they go on the market to find a replacement. The Canucks are notorious for “promoting” players with icetime. A player like Sbisa or Del zotto should never be expected to replace an Edler-type player because that’s when the replacing player gets overused and gets injured himself.