Provost Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The Athletic ranks our prospect pool as #2 behind just Buffalo. That doesn’t even include Boeser as he isn’t a prospect now. Basically all the rankings show us in the top 5 or higher. At what point do we say the rebuild is done? Did Benning speed it up just by drafting so well in later rounds that he found enough legitimate NHLers? It would be nice to keep adding, but there is also a point where you just start paying prospects market rate of higher as they come off ELCs as new ones come in... a cycle of not getting better or leveraging of their cheap ELC years. It seems like we have enough kids to filter into the lineup over the next 4-5 years, and even if we become a playoff team, we still get picks beyond the lottery ones where Benning seems to excel. Is it time to start aiming at the playoffs and improving (but not in “win-now” mode where we sell off youth to contend)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Provost said: The Athletic ranks our prospect pool as #2 behind just Buffalo. That doesn’t even include Boeser as he isn’t a prospect now. Basically all the rankings show us in the top 5 or higher. At what point do we say the rebuild is done? It would be nice to keep adding, but there is also a point where you just start paying prospects market rate of higher as they come off ELCs as new ones come in... a cycle of not getting better or leveraging of their cheap ELC years. It seems like we have enough kids to filter into the lineup over the next 4-5 years, and even if we become a playoff team, we still get picks beyond the lottery ones where Benning seems to excel. One more year with a top 10 pick and im content. After that go for it, still too much uncertainty right now with with almost all of those prospects yet to play an NHL game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Jack Hughes. That is all. So basically one more year in the basement. We won't get good until Quinn gets in and Petterson adjust and come into his own in the nhl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 no, the rebuild is nowhere near done The players have to translate to the NHL and meet their potentials so we can define a team identity to build around in the first place. A better metric would be to look around the league and who has the best players under 22-24. We've got a long way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: One more year with a top 10 pick and im content. After that go for it, still too much uncertainty right now with with almost all of those prospects yet to play an NHL game. I still think we need another elite center and D man to go with Hughes. Jack Hughes would be great but there are other centers in another deep draft next year. Defensively we still need a couple players there but if we cant draft one maybe we can sign one or attempt a trade when the team comes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amebushi Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I don’t see any scenario where the team doesn’t improve this year. Our owners and management do not tank on purpose, we have Bo, Brock, and what looked like an improving Jake last year returning with more experience. They have added some vets to take a lot of the defensive pressure and enough depth to sustain injuries without resorting to a poor AHL lineup. Throw in EP and the hope of Demko, Gaudette, OJ, and Hughes and I think we start to look competitive. Definitely nowhere near “sell the farm to win now” but we have bottomed out and are on the upswing. Our odds of getting Hughes in the draft next year are poor but if you want a number 1 draft pick you have to live in Edmonton anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 As fluffy as this projection may be, it's unfortunately impossible to take Pronman seriously. I take anything he says with a box of salt. He's not a scout, and his draft projections always seem to be attention seeking. I look at his 2013 as an indicator of how little I'd take to the bank. Drouin at #1 - over Nathan McKinnon and Seth Jones. Nichushkin at 4 - over Barkov Shinkaruk at 10 - over Horvat. Anyhow - no the rething is not 'done'. That's a failing way to look at building imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think people get blinded by the Jack Hughes idea. We can be one of the worst teams in the league again and almost certainly won’t get him. We are dramatically more likely to pick in the 3-10 range after an awful season. The cost of doing that is burning another year of Boeser and Pettersons’s cheap contracts for nothing. It also cements our position as a bad organization to sign with, and require overpayments to UFAs to fill holes (as evidenced by this year’s signings). That doesn’t seem worth moving from a mid round pick to a #5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Provost said: I think people get blinded by the Jack Hughes idea. We can be one of the worst teams in the league again and almost certainly won’t get him. We are dramatically more likely to pick in the 3-10 range after an awful season. The cost of doing that is burning another year of Boeser and Pettersons’s cheap contracts for nothing. It also cements our position as a bad organization to sign with, and require overpayments to UFAs to fill holes (as evidenced by this year’s signings). That doesn’t seem worth moving from a mid round pick to a #5 pick. there are plenty of other possible impact players in this draft coming up. The rebuild is not finished until we have a dynamic competitive team. We still need another D man and another Center to avoid the overpayment for FA's and not wanting to trade prospects. One more good draft and we can look at bringing Demko in and chasing the playoffs. theres nothing wrong with us drafting top 5 again this year but i dont think thats going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 A stage of the rebuild is over but there's a long way to go. Benning has assembled an awesome collection of young players, who have the potential to be elite in the NHL, but now they need to actually go out and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: As fluffy as this projection may be, it's unfortunately impossible to take Pronman seriously. I take anything he says with a box of salt. He's not a scout, and his draft projections always seem to be attention seeking. I look at his 2013 as an indicator of how little I'd take to the bank. Drouin at #1 - over Nathan McKinnon and Seth Jones. Nichushkin at 4 - over Barkov Shinkaruk at 10 - over Horvat. Anyhow - no the rething is not 'done'. That's a failing way to look at building imo. You can point to anyone’s draft projections and find failings. Pronman isn’t an outlier here, so that argument doesn’t hold water . Any lists put out so far have us amongst the very best prospect pools. Sporting News has us at #3. Top Shelf Prospects Series has us at #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, Provost said: The Athletic ranks our prospect pool as #2 behind just Buffalo. That doesn’t even include Boeser as he isn’t a prospect now. Basically all the rankings show us in the top 5 or higher. At what point do we say the rebuild is done? Did Benning speed it up just by drafting so well in later rounds that he found enough legitimate NHLers? It would be nice to keep adding, but there is also a point where you just start paying prospects market rate of higher as they come off ELCs as new ones come in... a cycle of not getting better or leveraging of their cheap ELC years. It seems like we have enough kids to filter into the lineup over the next 4-5 years, and even if we become a playoff team, we still get picks beyond the lottery ones where Benning seems to excel. Is it time to start aiming at the playoffs and improving (but not in “win-now” mode where we sell off youth to contend)? So we went from having the worst prospect pool to the second best in 4 and a half years. Benning working some magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Some Pronman rankings for the 2018 draft: 8. Bokk 9. Tkachuk 10. Merkley 14. Ylonen 16 Wilde 17 Ishakov 18. Bouchard 20. Dobson 22. Jake Wise 25. Der-Auguchintsev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I guess Pronman was stung by his own words from a year ago.... "I'm sure Vancouver fans may argue their slot should be a little higher after using back-to-back No. 5 overall picks, with those picks being Olli Juolevi and Elias Pettersson. Although both are good prospects, they don't move the needle at an elite level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 If we want a solid house we need to focus on having a really solid foundation. I say keep build the foundation. Many of our prospects will not advance to elite NHL players. Keep acquiring picks and focus on development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Provocation, answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rush17 said: So we went from having the worst prospect pool to the second best in 4 and a half years. Benning working some magic Too bad Bennig never started the 'rething'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Provost said: You can point to anyone’s draft projections and find failings. Pronman isn’t an outlier here, so that argument doesn’t hold water . Any lists put out so far have us amongst the very best prospect pools. Sporting News has us at #3. Top Shelf Prospects Series has us at #2. You're mistaking an opinion of Pronman for an 'argument' that the prospect pool is not one of the NHL's best. That straw 'argument' you've attempted to "so what you're saying" has nothing to do with what I actually posted. So Pronman is parroting what most other sources are now saying.....big deal. Post an aggregate of rankings and I might find some value in it. What Pronman alone thinks is right up there with canucksmarmy 'anayticz'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think our prospect pool is at a point where obtaining as many picks as possible is not an issue. We still need 1st and 2nd round picks. We don't have a go to top 6 forward group and don't have a top 4 defence group. Once those are in place, the draft can go into 'tweek' or maintenance mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Just imagine what this mad genius could have done with a few extra picks. A few extra quality D prospects would surely separate this group from the rest. Instead, guys like Tanev were “needed” for the conditions that offer up a top 7 pick like a vending machine. The life cycle of a roster is as predictable as the sport gets. Finish low, get high draft picks, select the consensus pick, or there abouts and presto! A rejuvenated prospect pool. Nothing genius about this rebuild. Well, unless you believe that all those Millers, Vbratas, LEs, etc were all part of the ‘replenishing of the prospect pool with a franchise record number of top 7 picks plan’, then I guess the man deserves credit for the most expensive rebuild/stealth Tank in the modern era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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