Next 5 years and prospects....

[189lb enforcers?]

On 5/13/2019 at 8:12 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Truth be told, and coming from a Tanktard this is a 180, I think JB should aggressivenely pursue free agency and trades to complete the NHL roster rebuild, instead of spending year after year relying on a EP or two to shine-up out of the draft.

 

I think this roster will be in perpetual middle ground if he doesn’t because there isn’t enough value in the system to burn the Horvat and Boeser years waiting and hoping for the roster to have the required depth to be a serious contender. 

 

Since this team should be expected to not be in the hunt the hunt for a lottery pick any longer, the tank-gravy days of picking core players high in the draft are likely over, statistically-speaking. This will of course have an impact on the remaining drafts and draft positions for a “rebuilding” club. 

 

I think JB’d be further ahead by buying the pieces needed to finish the NHL roster off, supplementing the roster depth with astute trades. I’d trade any player not part of the Triangle of Death/Doom, which ever it was.

 

Hard to believe I’m in here advocating to abandon the rebuild for glory after all my Tank Nation support, but I can’t see how this team can be a contender with what they have to work with as of today.

Got my way.

Edited July 23, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[kenhodgejr]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Got my way.

good prediction.... for the first time in a long time we have potential to be a playoff team. This will be a fun season to watch. 

[189lb enforcers?]

Bail out.

But I like it better than remaking as the Vancouver Victims. 

Much better, JB. 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

10 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

On 5/13/2019 at 3:12 PM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Truth be told, and coming from a Tanktard this is a 180, I think JB should aggressivenely pursue free agency and trades to complete the NHL roster rebuild, instead of spending year after year relying on a EP or two to shine-up out of the draft.

 

I think this roster will be in perpetual middle ground if he doesn’t because there isn’t enough value in the system to burn the Horvat and Boeser years waiting and hoping for the roster to have the required depth to be a serious contender. 

 

Since this team should be expected to not be in the hunt the hunt for a lottery pick any longer, the tank-gravy days of picking core players high in the draft are likely over, statistically-speaking. This will of course have an impact on the remaining drafts and draft positions for a “rebuilding” club. 

 

I think JB’d be further ahead by buying the pieces needed to finish the NHL roster off, supplementing the roster depth with astute trades. I’d trade any player not part of the Triangle of Death/Doom, which ever it was.

 

Hard to believe I’m in here advocating to abandon the rebuild for glory after all my Tank Nation support, but I can’t see how this team can be a contender with what they have to work with as of today.

Got my way.

 

8 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm basically on board with you.  We are getting dragged along the way, Nothing we can do other than hold on tight. 

Fooled again.

Benning is good at selling hope.

The team was just not deep enough in superior talent to trade away the future.

 

As the weeks go by we can see other teams being creative and making improvements as well, teams that already had their status, Chicago got younger and tougher while retaining Toews and Kane in close to their prime as mentors and effective players. Dallas had good defense before and has now added to the PP, Edmonton and Calgary swapped goalies and bad contracts, how that works out is to be seen but Edmonton is faster and Calgary tougher. Ottawa has come flying out of disaster getting younger and trading for 11 draft picks in one of the best draft years in decades, 5 picks in the first two rounds so far.

 

It isn't enough to put on the blinders and ignore what other teams are doing, this is a league and there is competition between teams, the White Caps were "promising" and becoming playoff contenders last year too.

 

All his moves are an attempt to take advantage of a hoped for LA and Anaheim tank for Alexis Lafriene and teams maneuvering for better odds after the TDL. This year because of the depth of the draft class more teams will decide earlier to go for a better chance just like they did in the McDavid draft year, except this one is deeper.

 

Over the next 3 years the Canucks could still have Sutter, Eriksson, Beagle, a beat up Roussel or any of the 8, that's right EIGHT current clause contracts still on the team or the team has given up draft picks to move them or bought them out. So in three years as much as 1/2 the team is already set barring any moves, for a fact the team has traded away a lottery pick for a player that will end up with no more than 45 points on this team.

 

The team is counting on players with concussion histories, each one makes the next one easier to get and more severe, anyone familiar with the game understands "upper body injury" without a body part mentioned means "bell rung" or a concussion now. Roussel - 3, Ferland - 4, Baertschi - 6, the odds of a repeat are greatly increased with these players.

 

As a possibility only, IF there is a labor stoppage for the 2021 season then the next draft class could be dealt with as an average over the previous 5 years standings in which case the Canucks, if they lose out on the great draft of 2020 will likely get a #1 or 2 overall in the 2021 draft. In that year our pick will be a 28/29 year old JT Miller.

 

Only this team and it's fanbase seem to be unable to comprehend what other teams are achieving with clever well thought out trades and signings. On this team if a player can play it is considered a "win", on this team putting all the pressure on 21 yr olds doesn't "ruin" them only when that happens to other teams, in this market being the worst team in the league over 4 years is cause for some people to cheer for all the good work Benning has done, in this market two year old prospects are forgotten about. After 6 years the market is starting to "wake up" and realize that the team is in no better shape than 8 years ago and "this is the year", the Oiler chant, is echoing in the Lions.

 

In an earlier post in mentioned how this market looks at some of the draft picks as being better than most other teams and gives credit to Benning and the scouting staff as being superior to other teams, well in the 6 drafts that Benning has resided in the team's selections are not the best even Brock and Pettersson, one must remember that they sat out a year so their draft year group was, the better players at least, were playing the year earlier.

 

2014 - JV - 25th ranked

2015 - BB - 11th ranked - more than one season behind due to injuries and start time and 10th ranked in point share contributions

2016 - OJ - not ranked - tied for 48th with 300 other players

2017 - EP - ranked #2 but more than a season behind - 2nd ranked in point share

2018 - QH - 6th ranked so far

2019 - VP - no games played for that draft class

 

This is not outstanding, many other teams have done better Buffalo for one.

Still the 2014 Canuck draft looks outstanding, 5th round pick Forsling has played over 120 games so far, Tryamkin looks to be a winner when he comes back if he hasn't been ruined by going to the KHL, McCann has found his part playing more than any other in that draft year and Demko looks ready to step in and become a regular goalie.

 

Of the prospects, the later round selections, the pick secured by Gillis, 5th round Gaudette looks to be the only player to make the team in the 5 years, a rather dismal record really. Jett Woo looked very good in his overage year.

 

This season, the team will fall short of the playoffs unless two other teams fall off a cliff, Benning might last until January, if canned it will not be in the xmas season unless it is really early in November. I think Benning's contract has a clause that if he is fired he gets paid the option year of his deal but the owner's cannot let him trade away anymore draft picks and his player selection has been second to none, nobody is calling for Sven, Jay or Loui. The team will/should elect to use this year's #1 pick and surrender next years, the 2021 pick.

 

In two months, by the end of September, the decision on the CBA will be made, IMO the league is prepared for a stoppage and may try to force the players hand for public support purposes, Seattle delayed a year and agents getting that year in contracts high in signing bonuses and low in salary so a lost season costs the players less. Benning may feel that an all out approach for a playoff berth will be forgotten in a lost year so trading away those two years of picks will be less noticed or cared about.

 

As far as 5 years in the future for prospects, look to his six years now, other than 1/2 the 1rst rounders he deemed good enough for the Canucks two will have mad the team, so two more maybe.

Contracts are easier, if staggered well, clauses and overpaying stops the team should be entering into EP 3rd contract, the big one, Horvat should be around Drasitl money and Boeser in the same area. IMO there will be another rebuild around then and one or both will be gone for draft picks

Edited July 23, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm basically on board with you.  We are getting dragged along the way, Nothing we can do other than hold on tight. 

I climbed out of the tank when seeing Petey, and Hughes.  Having these types of players at centre and D, when they are the same age, is rare - never seen here for sure.  Those two are unique talents.  They need to be supported now.  They make us too good to finish in the bottom 10.  Add to them Bo, Bess, and Demko.  That’s a really good young core.  It’s time to push all the chips in (first round picks too) and see these young guys do great things. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Alflives

[BPA]

Please do not feed the troll.

 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

 

Fooled again.

Benning is good at selling hope.

The team was just not deep enough in superior talent to trade away the future.

 

As the weeks go by we can see other teams being creative and making improvements as well, teams that already had their status, Chicago got younger and tougher while retaining Toews and Kane in close to their prime as mentors and effective players. Dallas had good defense before and has now added to the PP, Edmonton and Calgary swapped goalies and bad contracts, how that works out is to be seen but Edmonton is faster and Calgary tougher. Ottawa has come flying out of disaster getting younger and trading for 11 draft picks in one of the best draft years in decades, 5 picks in the first two rounds so far.

 

It isn't enough to put on the blinders and ignore what other teams are doing, this is a league and there is competition between teams, the White Caps were "promising" and becoming playoff contenders last year too.

 

All his moves are an attempt to take advantage of a hoped for LA and Anaheim tank for Alexis Lafriene and teams maneuvering for better odds after the TDL. This year because of the depth of the draft class more teams will decide earlier to go for a better chance just like they did in the McDavid draft year, except this one is deeper.

 

Over the next 3 years the Canucks could still have Sutter, Eriksson, Beagle, a beat up Roussel or any of the 8, that's right EIGHT current clause contracts still on the team or the team has given up draft picks to move them or bought them out. So in three years as much as 1/2 the team is already set barring any moves, for a fact the team has traded away a lottery pick for a player that will end up with no more than 45 points on this team.

 

The team is counting on players with concussion histories, each one makes the next one easier to get and more severe, anyone familiar with the game understands "upper body injury" without a body part mentioned means "bell rung" or a concussion now. Roussel - 3, Ferland - 4, Baertschi - 6, the odds of a repeat are greatly increased with these players.

 

As a possibility only, IF there is a labor stoppage for the 2021 season then the next draft class could be dealt with as an average over the previous 5 years standings in which case the Canucks, if they lose out on the great draft of 2020 will likely get a #1 or 2 overall in the 2021 draft. In that year our pick will be a 28/29 year old JT Miller.

 

Only this team and it's fanbase seem to be unable to comprehend what other teams are achieving with clever well thought out trades and signings. On this team if a player can play it is considered a "win", on this team putting all the pressure on 21 yr olds doesn't "ruin" them only when that happens to other teams, in this market being the worst team in the league over 4 years is cause for some people to cheer for all the good work Benning has done, in this market two year old prospects are forgotten about. After 6 years the market is starting to "wake up" and realize that the team is in no better shape than 8 years ago and "this is the year", the Oiler chant, is echoing in the Lions.

 

In an earlier post in mentioned how this market looks at some of the draft picks as being better than most other teams and gives credit to Benning and the scouting staff as being superior to other teams, well in the 6 drafts that Benning has resided in the team's selections are not the best even Brock and Pettersson, one must remember that they sat out a year so their draft year group was, the better players at least, were playing the year earlier.

 

2014 - JV - 25th ranked

2015 - BB - 11th ranked - more than one season behind due to injuries and start time and 10th ranked in point share contributions

2016 - OJ - not ranked - tied for 48th with 300 other players

2017 - EP - ranked #2 but more than a season behind - 2nd ranked in point share

2018 - QH - 6th ranked so far

2019 - VP - no games played for that draft class

 

This is not outstanding, many other teams have done better Buffalo for one.

Still the 2014 Canuck draft looks outstanding, 5th round pick Forsling has played over 120 games so far, Tryamkin looks to be a winner when he comes back if he hasn't been ruined by going to the KHL, McCann has found his part playing more than any other in that draft year and Demko looks ready to step in and become a regular goalie.

 

Of the prospects, the later round selections, the pick secured by Gillis, 5th round Gaudette looks to be the only player to make the team in the 5 years, a rather dismal record really. Jett Woo looked very good in his overage year.

 

This season, the team will fall short of the playoffs unless two other teams fall off a cliff, Benning might last until January, if canned it will not be in the xmas season unless it is really early in November. I think Benning's contract has a clause that if he is fired he gets paid the option year of his deal but the owner's cannot let him trade away anymore draft picks and his player selection has been second to none, nobody is calling for Sven, Jay or Loui. The team will/should elect to use this year's #1 pick and surrender next years, the 2021 pick.

 

In two months, by the end of September, the decision on the CBA will be made, IMO the league is prepared for a stoppage and may try to force the players hand for public support purposes, Seattle delayed a year and agents getting that year in contracts high in signing bonuses and low in salary so a lost season costs the players less. Benning may feel that an all out approach for a playoff berth will be forgotten in a lost year so trading away those two years of picks will be less noticed or cared about.

 

As far as 5 years in the future for prospects, look to his six years now, other than 1/2 the 1rst rounders he deemed good enough for the Canucks two will have mad the team, so two more maybe.

Contracts are easier, if staggered well, clauses and overpaying stops the team should be entering into EP 3rd contract, the big one, Horvat should be around Drasitl money and Boeser in the same area. IMO there will be another rebuild around then and one or both will be gone for draft picks

Pick your poison.

Watch pansy Canucks during a botched rebuild that never ends, or go for it now with what did work. 

I don’t disagree with your theme, that’s not it, it’s about choosing to be entertained by the home team and making the most out of a bad situation. 

 

I’d rather a team of Firklands than Vrbatas any day, which is what’s changed here, for my liking. 

 

We cant change the past and fix JB’s tenure, but we can be glad he’s not accidentally tanking anymore. Plus, with his recent moves to put this team into production, he will be graded on that and the silver linings of construction parts from high draft picks won’t save his ass.

 

You should also view this as a win-win. No matter what the result is next season, at least they won’t be victimized. If they win, super! If they don’t, JB will answer for it in every corner of the hockey world, not just his boss’s. 

 

Total win. 

Unless you prefer the sissy hockey of the past. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[spur1]

5 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

 

@ItTakesAnArmyi know I know, you can check my recent work in this thread, I've broken down every other teams farm and collection of young assets compared to ours, we aren't even close in terms of quantity, and we are simply average in terms of quality.

 

There was no real long term plan, it's just been a stupid rush to make the playoffs every year and has failed so bAd it kind of turned in to like @189lb enforcers? Says "an accidental rebuild".  Where are we now if Myers and Ferland simply choose to sign somewhere else?  A plan can not consist of just banking on the top free agents to sign here.  And if we know we are not getting Myers for sure does that stop us from trading for Miller?  I would think it does and if that's the case, this team would be complete garbage.  

 

Another thing that is a little mind numbing is the recent draft.  No defenceman taken?  Not one?  Does this have anything to do with some of our scouting staff being let go?  Did they not target any defenceman?  D-men are hard to find unless you draft them..Earth to JB..hello?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Earth to the 5th line. 

Wow a whole army of negative nelly’s.

D men are hard to find unless you draft them....what a load of crap. Did we not just sign 2 in free agency? What about the Sharks for example.... I don’t recall them drafting EK and BB. 

The way I see it we already have enough defencemen in the pipeline to last the five years which is the basis of this thread. If we don’t there is five years of free agency not to mention some of the college D JB has been signing.  

By the way the crap you are talking about are going to be in the playoffs this coming season. 

[oldnews]

8 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

 

Fooled again.

Benning is good at selling hope.

The team was just not deep enough in superior talent to trade away the future.

 

As the weeks go by we can see other teams being creative and making improvements as well, teams that already had their status, Chicago got younger and tougher while retaining Toews and Kane in close to their prime as mentors and effective players. Dallas had good defense before and has now added to the PP, Edmonton and Calgary swapped goalies and bad contracts, how that works out is to be seen but Edmonton is faster and Calgary tougher. Ottawa has come flying out of disaster getting younger and trading for 11 draft picks in one of the best draft years in decades, 5 picks in the first two rounds so far.

 

Thanks for the comic relief.

Benning is good at selling hope - and yet here you are trying to fluff Edmonton and Calgary's 'work' in recent works.

You should have thrown in a bit of 'Toronto is uber improved' for icing.

Well done.

That was good for a laugh.

[magicman12]

On 6/17/2019 at 9:00 PM, wai_lai416 said:

then you should quote what you are referring to.. and yes it's still terrible drafting.. how many top 3 did they have? and they only ended with kovalychuk and heatley. 

2 awesome players , not bad drafting , probably better than average.

[magicman12]

On 6/18/2019 at 12:35 PM, the grinder said:

name the 7 top ten picks in 5 years then . we have had 4 not including  this year pick

Agree.......Wtf 7 lol , BB was a late 1st rounder that year. Don't ever remember having more than 1 1st rounder ever.

[PhillipBlunt]

8 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Pick your poison.

Watch pansy Canucks during a botched rebuild that never ends, or go for it now with what did work. 

I don’t disagree with your theme, that’s not it, it’s about choosing to be entertained by the home team and making the most out of a bad situation. 

 

I’d rather a team of Firklands than Vrbatas any day, which is what’s changed here, for my liking. 

 

We cant change the past and fix JB’s tenure, but we can be glad he’s not accidentally tanking anymore. Plus, with his recent moves to put this team into production, he will be graded on that and the silver linings of construction parts from high draft picks won’t save his ass.

 

You should also view this as a win-win. No matter what the result is next season, at least they won’t be victimized. If they win, super! If they don’t, JB will answer for it in every corner of the hockey world, not just his boss’s. 

 

Total win. 

Unless you prefer the sissy hockey of the past. 

I tell you something 189, I’m looking forward to seeing this team gel during the season. The pack mentality will be something to behold. 

[spur1]

14 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

It took Benning 5 years to improve this defence, we iced the exact same defence two years in a row up until this coming season.  If you don't take things so literal, then yes the best way to find defenceman without giving up an arm and a leg is by drafting them.  Of course you see us having enough defenceman already, those are rose colored glasses you've got on aren't they, bubs?

LOL....I have had to put on my shades....because the future is so bright.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, spur1 said:

LOL....I have had to put on my shades....because the future is so bright.

And here I thought mine were unique!

[wildwood12]

I honestly feel, that when we finally win the Stanley Cup. There will be posters on here who say "but Yeah, we didn't build it the right way!"  LOL

[IBatch]

On 7/23/2019 at 5:37 PM, The 5th Line said:

It took Benning 5 years to improve this defence, we iced the exact same defence two years in a row up until this coming season.  If you don't take things so literal, then yes the best way to find defenceman without giving up an arm and a leg is by drafting them.  Of course you see us having enough defenceman already, those are rose colored glasses you've got on aren't they, bubs?

Did we pay and arm and a leg for Benn? Nope and he’s now our best PKer on then back end...and we didn’t for Myers either, a lot less then he was predicted to go for, factually as a UFA a team friendly deal.   Your assessments of other teams are opinion.   If you want expert comparisons a good way to do it is use ADP versus what your drafted to find out how well each team is drafting.  The only thing this doesn’t take into consideration is how many draft picks a team has BUT it does give you a great  base line to start from.  Benning ADP is 7 and he has the 3rd best group of 21 and unders or plus four, good enough to tie for 9-11 overall.  TB is tops in the league at plus 22, EDM DFL at minus 21.  

 

This means he’s in the top third of the league the last four years, or an above average drafter.  Most importantly is we have the 3rd best group of 21 and unders entering last years draft...AND we might have just got a top 3 or top 5 guy at 10....

 

In summation JB drafting has been good, maybe even great.  Go ahead and twist it anyway you want, meanwhile I’m going to enjoy the young core he’s assembling and look forward to the day the B prospects start to make the lineup, you do know they take time right?

[ItTakesAnArmy]

On 7/24/2019 at 12:01 AM, oldnews said:

Thanks for the comic relief.

Benning is good at selling hope - and yet here you are trying to fluff Edmonton and Calgary's 'work' in recent works.

You should have thrown in a bit of 'Toronto is uber improved' for icing.

Well done.

That was good for a laugh.

If using your position Vancouver is and are cup champs annually, never making a mistake and all other teams don't matter. There is ONLY the Canucks. Hey, maybe this year they win as many as they lose eh? Oh sorry, they a perennial winners

23 hours ago, wildwood12 said:

I honestly feel, that when we finally win the Stanley Cup. There will be posters on here who say "but Yeah, we didn't build it the right way!"  LOL

Finally win? Hmmm, I think that was the feelings the fans had 35 years ago too.

 

It is all in fun so let's pretend the rebuild isn't over and the Canucks still have all their draft picks for the next two years.

Hmmm that might give the team as many as 5 top six forwards under 26, 4 top defense men under 30 and two top goalies instead of 3 top six under 26 and 3 just under 30, 3 top defense men under 30 and two top goalies. It would also eliminate 4 of the 9 clause contracts Benning has given out some for declining vets and give staggered cap space too.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[nux_win]

On 7/23/2019 at 6:22 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

I tell you something 189, I’m looking forward to seeing this team gel during the season. The pack mentality will be something to behold. 

Yep.  Sprinkling one or two tough guys in a line-up to police an otherwise soft team isn't the way to go.  We have to build a culture of team toughness such that even our skill guys are willing to throw hits and stick up for each other.  Of course there has to be some actually tough guys to back that up as well.  That's still what it takes to win in this league despite less fighting and chippy play overall.  Go Canucks Go!

[Nucker 67]

Gosh, it's hard to believe it was only 5 short years ago the Canucks had guys like Gaunce, Jensen and Jordan Subban as their "good prospects" lol

 

The cupboard is pretty full now, especially at the forward positions, and even goaltending. The Canucks could still use 1 or 2 more top D propsects in the system, but hopefully Rathbone and Woo really deliver when they get here.

 

 

[oldnews]

34 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

If using your position Vancouver is and are cup champs annually, never making a mistake and all other teams don't matter. There is ONLY the Canucks. Hey, maybe this year they win as many as they lose eh? Oh sorry, they a perennial winners