I disagree with the Masses this foward group is not the probem

[189lb enforcers?]

55 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Told ya, man.  It's tank4pickz, tank4pickz, tank4pickz... then flip the switch and win the cup the next year.  You know, just like how da ShanaLeafs done it.

... ya man, Cauze it sux watching the Triangle of Death, mainly built out of tanked pickz. Draft pickz suck! 

 

I bet TO also hatez watching Mathews, Marner, etc managing to take Boston to a game 7, with those tanked pickz. Tank4pickz, bad, like Organge Man. 

 

[Goal:thecup]

Nice OP, thanks.

 

I want Karlsson too.

He's just what we need.

 

And, maybe he feels the Swedish Connection in Vancouver.

Re-sign Edler and draft Broberg.

 

Get Juolevi on the big club.

Defense "rebuilt".

 

Hughes Karlsson*

Edler Tanev

Juolevi Stetcher

 

Rest are in a battle for ice time.

Drop the checkered flag in October for who wins starting lineup.

 

We can work out the gory details later.

E.g. Edler's contract NMC but 2 years max (v/v Seattle entry draft)

 

All in all, a good post.

 

* That pairing is, well, drool-worthy.

Imagine them 3 on 3 in OT w/Pettersson...

[CanuckinEdm]

1 hour ago, ReggieBush said:

I don't understand the sentiment that you need 6 bonafide, top 6 forwards. In recent times, most teams that win cups have 4 (maybe 5) true top 6 forwards with the precursor that two of them play Centre. 

I think you need 2 pairs of top 6 players with a complimentary player with each pairing. ie. Sedin-Sedin-Burrows if your 2 pairs are on the weaker side you need more then a complimentary player. On D you a real first pairing and good fillers and a #1 goalie.

look at the last winners of the stanley cup

Washington:

Ovechkin-Backstrom

Oshie-Kuznetsov

Carlson- (running a blank)

Holtby

Pittsburgh:

Guentzel/Hornquist-Crosby

Kessel-Malkin

Letang-Schultz

 

and so on.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Nice OP, thanks.

 

I want Karlsson too.

He's just what we need.

 

And, maybe he feels the Swedish Connection in Vancouver.

Re-sign Edler and draft Broberg.

 

Get Juolevi on the big club.

Defense "rebuilt".

 

Hughes Karlsson*

Edler Tanev

Juolevi Stetcher

 

Rest are in a battle for ice time.

Drop the checkered flag in October for who wins starting lineup.

 

We can work out the gory details later.

E.g. Edler's contract NMC but 2 years max (v/v Seattle entry draft)

 

All in all, a good post.

 

* That pairing is, well, drool-worthy.

Imagine them 3 on 3 in OT w/Pettersson...

Power play issues solved.

Just need to work on the P.K. aspect of the Dcore. 

 

As usual, I’m hoping to sign or trade for players Benning plans to flip at the TDL. 

[Tomatoes11]

7 hours ago, Rounoush said:

Once again Baertschi gets no respect here.

Nor should he. I’d rather have the second round pick. 

[BertaNuck]

They need a strong top six forward and a strong defence

they need a ferland type guy desperately, if they don’t they will be run over and out first round 

playoffs are physical and Canucks turtle in there shells when the game gets physical, sorry Schaller and virtanen are not the answer, both of them dish but can’t receive 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Filthy McNasty

[coastal.view]

8 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I try not to write to much on these types of forums, but I believe there is a fallacy going through the Canuck fan base. I believe that this core of forwards does not need a top 6 or even 2 top six forward to be competitive. I believe that the only problem this team has is on there defence. I believe 2 spots on defence need to be filled 1 must be filled immediately and 1 after Christmas or at the trade dead line dependent on where we are in the standings.

i think you completely over state your position for effect

please tell us all how this forward group is complete and ready to contend for the stanley cup as presently constructed?

which wingers besides brock are scoring and contributing reliably to the offense?

you really think this o group is solid enough to compete with the elite teams?

 

and yes, the forward group is less of a concern then the d group

which has been a mess for at least a couple of seasons

and yet that core has been brought back repeatedly with minor tweaks

thankfully, young talent will be added this upcoming season (hello hughes and joulevi)

even if nothing too dramatic is done via trade or ufa signing

[higgyfan]

14 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

... ya man, Cauze it sux watching the Triangle of Death, mainly built out of tanked pickz. Draft pickz suck! 

 

I bet TO also hatez watching Mathews, Marner, etc managing to take Boston to a game 7, with those tanked pickz. Tank4pickz, bad, like Organge Man. 

 

 Unfortunately the Nucks have to contend with the lottery messing them up.  #5 in a weak draft (2014) is as good as it gets.  luckily Boeser and Pettersson turned out to be way better than most expected. The team would be looking a whole lot better if they had been able to hang on to the 3rd overall in 2016.  Pierre-Luc Dubois. 

 

Baer    PLD   Pete

Pearson  Bo  Brock

 

Think I like this over TOs top 6

 

 

[D-Money]

21 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Nor should he. I’d rather have the second round pick. 

Generally, no. You'd take Lind or Gadjovich over Sven?

 

But if we kept it and took Rasmus Andersson (like the Flames did)? Hell yeah.

[Nucker 67]

I don't want Karlsson or Myers

 

I still think the Canucks need better forwards. The forwards group is basically Horvat, Pettersson and Boeser, with a bunch of bottom 6 players sprinkled throughout. No disrespect to Baertschi, but his future career looks shaky to me. Questionable moving forward.

 

Team has had difficulty scoring. A full year of Hughes will help, and maybe Juolevi makes it as well. Heck, for all we know, Woo could come to camp is great shape and really "woo" the coaches. He's already got NHL size. I also think Benning signs a UFA on D, but he won't overspend because he's got Pettersson, Boeser and Hughes to pay hefty dollars to in the coming years.

 

I still believe the Canucks should target a forward with the 1st this year. And maybe with the 2nd and get Thomson, Korczak or McCarthy. There is some great D in the 1st round though:

 

Byram (he'll be long gone)

Soderstrom

Broberg

York

Harley

Seider

 

But I'm more intrigued with adding Boldy or Krebs to Pettersson's line.

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by NUCKER67

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

This is an excellent well thought out post and so I do commend the OP for sharing his thoughts (and the efforts that he made in his research).

 

My only concerns with going after Karlsson are as follows:

 

1) If we pay Karlsson a premium, then all of our other RFA’s will demand premium contracts as well......and this could actually decrease our window.  

 

If you look at all of the multiple cup winners in recent years (Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh), you will see that their top players were signed to cap friendly deals at the time those teams won their cups.

 

I honestly don’t know if the “wheel can be reinvented” so to speak.  As of right now, the formula clearly seems to be to sign your top players to “value cap friendly” contracts so that you can invest more in depth.  

 

Perhaps we should see how Toronto does in these playoffs.  If Toronto can go deep and even win a cup, then I’ll change my mind and become a firm believer in the “Toronto model” (which is essentially what you are proposing with the Karlsson Signing).   

 

For now though, I just think that overpaying for premium talent at premium prices leaves a lot to be desired as far as depth goes....and ultimately leads to these teams being a perennial “bridesmaid” of sorts.

When our RFAs can show that they can have a career like EK has so far, then they will have earned a premium contract. The reality is it's UFA vs RFA.

 

With that said, I also would like to believe that our guys have better character than to want to sit out a year or whatever tactic to be overpaid. I look at someone like Nicklas Backstrom who signed for 6.7 million a season after coming off a 101 point season. Now it was a different time then in terms of contracts, but it was also a different time then in point production. The reality is Pettersson was under a PPG this season. Of course he has far more potential, but I don't see a 12 million dollar player or whatever just yet. Pettersson will get paid well assuming he continues to improve and strengthens up, but at this point, I don't see a major concern of his contract and projecting him to be at around 7.5-8 million a season long term. But of course I'm also projecting Boeser to be around 6.5 million a season (for 4-6 years though). These might seem low, but we also have Horvat who is an example for the team as a comparative (if players want to use EK as the counter) for an RFA who's a center that provides a lot more than just points and is also upping his point production year by year.

 

I was right up there with signing EK. I agree with the OP that the defense needs improvement the most. My biggest concern is health for EK. He would be worth every penny when he is playing, but if he starts becoming a part-time player (health-wise) like Tanev or what Edler is starting to become, then how much value is he really adding? I've gotten on the Panarin bandwagon instead if we are making a splash this off season because of this and while it doesn't improve our defense, Panarin has shown he can carry an offense. It would stabilize our team up front and hope the backend sorts itself out with our drafting. Hughes will eventually take over the offensive side of things on the defense and we have to hope Juolevi and Woo pan out and have some unexpected surprises like Rathbone being a real gamer and maybe Tryamkin returns better than ever after his KHL contract is done. Adding a Soderstrom this draft (or maybe a 2nd round gem) would help things along here.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

Pittsburgh Penguins had 4 players who made 45.2% of the $71.4M cap when they won in 2016 (Malkin, Crosby, Letang, and Kessel). There's no magic formula, it's just get the best players you can, and get as many as you can.

 

Chicago is interesting, because when they won the cup in 2010, Brian Campbell was a UFA signing making $7,142,875. The salary cap that season was set at $56.8 million, so Campbell's contract was 12.6% of the cap. Under the projected $83M cap next year, that would be $10.44M. Campbell ended up needing to be moved to make way for young guys getting raises, but his presence on the team likely helped younger players like Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson develop into such fine defensemen.

 

If Karlsson is interested in playing for Vancouver, we'd be fools for not pursuing him. He'd immediately become the best defenseman we've ever had. He'd also fill the most obvious hole in the organization: top-pairing RHD. And he'd help insulate and develop younger guys like Hughes, Stetcher, and Woo.

 

And you can't just say "we're not ready", or "wait a couple years", because defensemen of his level don't come around often in free agency, and even when they do they won't necessarily be interested in your team. The last elite D-man to move teams as a UFA was Ryan Suter, and his decision came down to Nashville (the team that drafted him), or Minnesota (his home-town team) - Vancouver wasn't even a consideration.

 

Agree with all this. A good GM takes ANY opportunity* he can to steadily improve the team. Karlsson would certainly do just that and like you said, at the position we are arguably weakest.

 

(*For a contract that makes sense...and IMO, $12m+ X 7 years doesn't make sense. $9.5 or $10 however....)

 

That said, IMO, it's a pipe dream. He's going to go to a team more closely resembling a contender (if not stay in SJS) and a lower tax team likely 'outbids' us (and everyone else) with that technicality. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by aGENT

[189lb enforcers?]

20 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 Unfortunately the Nucks have to contend with the lottery messing them up.  #5 in a weak draft (2014) is as good as it gets.  luckily Boeser and Pettersson turned out to be way better than most expected. The team would be looking a whole lot better if they had been able to hang on to the 3rd overall in 2016.  Pierre-Luc Dubois. 

 

Baer    PLD   Pete

Pearson  Bo  Brock

 

Think I like this over TOs top 6

 

 

Falling in the lottery system has been somewhat detrimental to this team’s current composition, for sure, but the management didn’t try to be there in the first place, unlike TO, for instance. 

 

We should also objectively look at Clutch-tuck in Calgary and wonder, wtf, what a line we’d have. 

 

You make your own luck, as the saying goes. If you want to win prizes at the lottery, buy a ticket, not Miller. 

 

For TO, Marner wasn’t a lotto pick; that was a deliberate selling off of expensive, star vets to rebuild through the draft with high picks, exactly what the Canucks refused to do with their old, star, core. Instead, a supernova; the death of a core, save Edler. 

 

This forum has long played Pin the Tail on the Donkey while assigning blame for the refusal of this team to engage the dreaded R-word. Sometimes it’s Aquaman, sometimes it’s Linden, Benning, the media, the fans, etc. It’s entertaining to imagine where this roster might be with its new core if it were managed differently, even somewhat similar to what TO did the year they landed Marner, but, “it wouldn’t have been fair to the Sedins”, as had Linden put it. 

 

Water under the bridge, but lotto luck isn’t what held this team back, it was management, IMO. 

 

I agree with you about PLD.

 

I recall The Canucks wanting him so badly. He is the kind of character you build around. Like a Horvat, he’s somewhat of a Toews-type. What a beauty. I hope that in this draft, Brackett finds a few of those. 

 

As for the OP, I have not heard the fan-sentiment which has deduced that the forward group, on a rebuilding team nonetheless, is handicapping this roster. So, I disagree with the premise, entirely. 

 

 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

18 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I don't want Karlsson or Myers

 

Why not?

 

Its a rebuild roster for the next few years. 

 

The roster has the space and the cap shouldn’t be a problem. 

 

As I’ve said elsewhere, this must have been the most expensive rebuild in the modern era. Why stop now?

 

Squeezing in EK, for instance, who’d instantly become the best Dman this franchise has ever had, possibly top 5 in players ever as well, is a nontraversy in every plausible sense. Even as a potential cripple, we can still argue this claim. He’d potentially fix the PP by himself and allow QH to develop into his ideal. He’d sell tickets and is great in the community and *loved by all but one of his teammates. 

 

Why are you against signing him? (Myers is ok, but he’s not an EK so I get that part)

 

 

 

This part isn’t directed at you but I’ve noticed that when I ripped on management’s decisions to sign and pay several expensive role players, I am routinely met with, “its not your money, why should you care?” types of comments, or something to that effect. 

 

Several of those same posters are currently advocating for adding several of these new expensive vets, while others complain of the price. Make up your minds people. Lol 

[aGENT]

16 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

For TO, Marner wasn’t a lotto pick; that was a deliberate selling off of expensive, star vets to rebuild through the draft with high picks, exactly what the Canucks refused to do with their old, star, core. Instead, a supernova; the death of a core, save Edler. 

The only movable 'vet' of any value from the previous core, that arguably 'should' have been moved and wasn't, is Tanev. (And you'll get no argument from me that he shouldn't have been).

 

The #proper rebuild crowd needs to realize we had very little saleable assets that weren't in fact moved. We weren't in the same place as an organization as TOR or more recently NYR. 

[189lb enforcers?]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The only movable 'vet' of any value from the previous core, that arguably 'should' have been moved and wasn't, is Tanev. (And you'll get no argument from me that he shouldn't have been).

 

The #proper rebuild crowd needs to realize we had very little saleable assets that weren't in fact moved. We weren't in the same place as an organization as TOR or more recently NYR. 

Sure, yet somehow, stupid TO managed to turn Dion and Phil into today’s core, but our management couldn’t make similar moves. 

 

#properrebuild aka intentional Tanking, not accidentally, is base management principles theory. 

[Nucker 67]

1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Why not?

I was always under the impression that Karlsson didn't want to play here, because I believe he even said prior to being traded rom OTT that he doesn't want to play for a Canadian team. He'll also be crazy expensive. I am happy watching Hughes develop and eventually do what Karlsson does. Maybe better.

 

I've watched Myers a bit in the playoffs, and he definitely has size, but I thought he had some difficulty handling the puck, and he's not the fastest skater.

 

I think the Canucks have some nice offensive pieces on D (Hughes, Stecher, maybe Hutton and Juolevi. Rathbone has some offense), and could certainly use a bit more, but at what cost?

 

Poor Bo has had to carry the team on his back for most of the year, having to play with many different bottom 6 wingers, and trying to produce with that, which he did. Bo deserves a real Top 6 winger to play with. My vote goes to Eberle or Nyqvist.

[aGENT]

Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

Sure, yet somehow, stupid TO managed to turn Dion and Phil into today’s core, but our management couldn’t make similar moves. 

 

#properrebuild aka intentional Tanking, not accidentally, is base management principles theory. 

Probably because we didn't have a Phil Kessel or a Phaneuf willing to waive to sell. Hence my point re: saleable assets.

[189lb enforcers?]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I was always under the impression that Karlsson didn't want to play here, because I believe he even said prior to being traded rom OTT that he doesn't want to play for a Canadian team. He'll also be crazy expensive. I am happy watching Hughes develop and eventually do what Karlsson does. Maybe better.

 

I've watched Myers a bit in the playoffs, and he definitely has size, but I thought he had some difficulty handling the puck, and he's not the fastest skater.

 

I think the Canucks have some nice offensive pieces on D (Hughes, Stecher, maybe Hutton and Juolevi. Rathbone has some offense), and could certainly use a bit more, but at what cost?

 

Poor Bo has had to carry the team on his back for most of the year, having to play with many different bottom 6 wingers, and trying to produce with that, which he did. Bo deserves a real Top 6 winger to play with. My vote goes to Eberle or Nyqvist.

If it’s EK’s decision, then that’s different, for sure. 

 

Our D is so incredibly mediocre, it’s troubling, other than QH, of course. 

I’d not mind if every one of them was replaced as they must be the most easily replacable parts in FA, quality and value wise, but that’s another topic. 

 

Those are servicable options, but I’d like to find more passionate players, but funding them with skill like Eberle, is pretty much why we need to draft them. 

 

My Canucks fantasy roster has Brady Tkachuk on it. How that happens is all a bit hazy 

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think we could be a playoff team next year, if we went out and signed 1 UFA forward, And that is actually what I think Benning should do;

Go out and sign one forward...……...sign a RW for Bo's line

 

Here is my thinking....

 

I think people see our U25 talent on the team and say we have elite talent, which is true, but our underlaying depth is not that of atop 10 playoff team.

 

Now the Reason, I do say adding one puts us in the top 16 is, we added Hughes, who I think changes up our zone exits a lot...….

 

We did npt have Hughes all season to the end, and were 9 points out of a playoff spot......Imo...1 UFA and Hughes, gives you the 9 points

 

That and lesser injuries......but I think we would be in the hunt...……..

 

In saying that, picking a Zegras, Krebs, Boldy  offensively would pay huge dividends in 2 year...…...as would drafting another RHD in the second round.

 

We keep pushing for the playoffs, and that is fine, but teams do not normally go from 21 OA into the top 10 OA, in 1 or 2 years...…..we are still in the process