[Discussion] if Podkolzin is available at 10 do we take him

[Canuck Surfer]

 

DP

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Canuck Surfer
Double post, see below

[Canuck Surfer]

 

6 hours ago, theo5789 said:

 

How is this different than say a guy going to college for a couple of years? Or being sent back to juniors and then a year in the AHL or whatever? The KHL is a men's league, so he will be developing there. 2 years is very little time and if he's NHL ready, then he would arrive at around the time any other player would be. Now unless we are looking for a player that can step in immediately, then it would be a different story, but that may not fit into the BPA mantra.

 

For comparison sake, Boeser did sign after his college season and played a few games, but he was a 20 year old before he became a full time NHLer. Not very far off from Podkolzin being away for a couple of years and jumping right in hopefully.

 

There is the chance he may not want to play here and maybe he's using this tactic to hopefully land on a team of choice (Jagr style?) because we all know about the buyout rules in the KHL. The teams will hopefully find out more on this during their interviews so they will make the decision to take him or not if he does drop to 10. But based on skill alone, I probably wouldn't pass on him if he does drop that far.

Correct, Boeser played two full years college after being drafted, then arrived in Vancouver. He was four months older than Podz will be when drafted.

 

It could be argued Boeser could have come out after his freshman year. 

 

Fun conversation, Quinn Hughes, was one of the oldest players his draft year. Born a month earlier, he would have been eligible for the 2017 draft. How high would he have been drafted??

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think Button is basing his valuation on new viewings of the player though.  Bob's rankings are from earlier, aren't they?  

Anyway Button dropped the guy down to 13.  Add to that the whole Russian factor, and the player (maybe?) choosing to stay and over there, and the guy could fall a lot.  I'd rather pick up Broberg or Seider.  They both have higher ceilings.  

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-s-tsn-hockey-mock-draft-post-lottery-edition-1.1287914

 

Just two weeks earlier, Button had him 3rd overall. Yes, he dipped after not dropping big points at the WJC U18's. But he's one of the youngest players in the draft. And being in consideration for top 3, he's not even 18 yet, is amazing.

 

Yeah, Button seemed to trade some positions around post WJCU18.  But it really should not change that drastically.

[Baer.]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think Button is basing his valuation on new viewings of the player though.  Bob's rankings are from earlier, aren't they?  

Anyway Button dropped the guy down to 13.  Add to that the whole Russian factor, and the player (maybe?) choosing to stay and over there, and the guy could fall a lot.  I'd rather pick up Broberg or Seider.  They both have higher ceilings.  

Seider at 10 is a reach

[Blömqvist]

Yes to Podkolzin at 10 every day of the week and twice on Sundays. High-end skill, non-stop motor, 200-ft game, and a sizeable frame to boot. Would be absolutely filthy playing alongside Pettersson and Boeser.

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Baer. said:

Seider at 10 is a reach

Pastrnak at 6 in 2014 would have been a reach too,  if Seider has the highest ceiling of the guys left for us to choose from, then we take him.  Swing for the fences, and go big or go home. 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Pastrnak at 6 in 2014 would have been a reach too,  if Seider has the highest ceiling of the guys left for us to choose from, then we take him.  Swing for the fences, and go big or go home. 

Caufield also has the earmarks for this years EP.   Don’t think he will still be available but if he is and we took him I wouldn’t be too disappointed (I like size, but his skill set is undeniable, he is a big reason Hughes is going first overall this year). 

[higgyfan]

59 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Caufield also has the earmarks for this years EP.   Don’t think he will still be available but if he is and we took him I wouldn’t be too disappointed (I like size, but his skill set is undeniable, he is a big reason Hughes is going first overall this year). 

Caulfield has always played alongside great playmaking Cs.  At 16 he had Turcotte, then at 17 it was either Zegras/Turcotte or Hughes.  He's a great sniper/shooter for sure, but I don't think he's the reason any of those terrific Cs are going to be picked so high in the draft.

 

Until I see Caulfield having success playing against full grown men, I see him as a high risk/high reward player and would be concerned if the Canucks chose him.

[brownky]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

 

I think it was Craig Button (recently) who said that Podkolzin doesn't have the puck skills many thought he had.  I heard it on the radio recently.  Maybe someone here can find the comments? 

So in other words, it's the exact opposite of Craig Button's opinion, like most draft picks where he goes against the consensus.

 

He's got beyond elite puck skills. That's what Craig Button is saying by Craig Button saying he doesn't.

[mll]

14 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its different because he's already making pro money in Russia at a young age, and will be for 2 more years to come, so there might be less incentive to sign with a team he doesn't prefer. He can continue to make money until 22 and then sign a heavy bonus laden pro contract in the NHL. Its very different.  

There is no agreement between the NHL and the KHL so his rights belong to his drafting team indefinitely.  Gusev's rights were traded to Vegas as part of the expansion and he just signed his ELC with them at age 26.    

 

Leafs reserve list - they've drafted several players out of the KHL and are holding players rights even beyond free agency age 27 per CapFriendly:  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/reserve-list

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by mll

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Caulfield has always played alongside great playmaking Cs.  At 16 he had Turcotte, then at 17 it was either Zegras/Turcotte or Hughes.  He's a great sniper/shooter for sure, but I don't think he's the reason any of those terrific Cs are going to be picked so high in the draft.

 

Until I see Caulfield having success playing against full grown men, I see him as a high risk/high reward player and would be concerned if the Canucks chose him.

Yet he kept up at his two point a game per clip without Hughes ....  

[JM_]

6 hours ago, mll said:

There is no agreement between the NHL and the KHL so his rights belong to his drafting team indefinitely.  Gusev's rights were traded to Vegas as part of the expansion and he just signed his ELC with them at age 26.    

 

Leafs reserve list - they've drafted several players out of the KHL and are holding players rights even beyond free agency age 27 per CapFriendly:  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/reserve-list

 

thanks, I'm never quite clear on that part of the CBA its written so badly. Even the cap friendly guys didn't know what to do with Tryamkins status for quite a while. 

 

Do you know, would Pod be able to elect to put himself back in the draft if he didn't sign with us after 2 or 4 years? 

[mll]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thanks, I'm never quite clear on that part of the CBA its written so badly. Even the cap friendly guys didn't know what to do with Tryamkins status for quite a while. 

 

Do you know, would Pod be able to elect to put himself back in the draft if he didn't sign with us after 2 or 4 years? 

That's not possible because there's no agreement between the two leagues so his rights will still belong to the Canucks after 4 years.  

 

By browsing the reserve lists on CapFriendly it looks like

-  all players out of the KHL who never signed a NHL contract look to remain their drafting teams' property even beyond age 27.  Tampa has a 36 year old goalie on their reserve list. Detroit has a player that will turn 27 in a couple of years but is listed as indefinite.

- players who have signed an ELC and elect to leave the league but were qualified (eg Tryamkin) have their rights expiring at age 27.  

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, mll said:

That's not possible because there's no agreement between the two leagues so his rights will still belong to the Canucks after 4 years.  

 

By browsing the reserve lists on CapFriendly it looks like

-  all players out of the KHL who never signed a NHL contract look to remain their drafting teams' property even beyond age 27.  Tampa has a 36 year old goalie on their reserve list. Detroit has a player that will turn 27 in a couple of years but is listed as indefinite.

- players who have signed an ELC and elect to leave the league but were qualified (eg Tryamkin) have their rights expiring at age 27.  

OK that makes sense. 

 

And it does provide some leverage for picking Pod at 10, so thats a good thing. 

[CanucksCountry]

I guess we do 

[hammertime]

On 5/15/2019 at 4:35 PM, Baer. said:

Seider at 10 is a reach

You take that back

[JeremyCuddles]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:39 AM, N7Nucks said:

I read two different scouting reports, lastwordonhockey and dobberprospects, and both say he has great stickhandling and can embarrass defenders. So I am not entirely sure where you read this. Feel free to let me know. This guy's intangibles honestly scream Benning guy. He battles, never quits on a play, has good leadership qualities. I seen both of those scouting reports call him a power winger. He's 6'1 nearly 200 pounds already according to eliteprospects. Everything we want outta Virtanen this kid has, minus the hitting.

I just had to do it. 

[JeremyCuddles]

2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

You take that back

Yzerman makin' me look foolish too. I was of the mindset Seider at 10 was a big reach. I am glad Detroit got him though. I honestly feel Detroit is the best at developing players like that. 

[hammertime]

Just now, N7Nucks said:

Yzerman makin' me look foolish too. I was of the mindset Seider at 10 was a big reach. I am glad Detroit got him though. I honestly feel Detroit is the best at developing players like that. 

Was just pulling your chain. I was really high on Sieder pumping his tires all season in the draft thread. I still didnt expect him to go that high. Who scouts Germany?

[Baer.]

6 minutes ago, hammertime said:

You take that back

It's still a reach. Even Burke said they should have traded down.

 

Edit: However I'll give credit that you predicted he would get picked high.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Baer.

[hammertime]

Just now, Baer. said:

It's still a reach. Even Burke said they should have traded down.

I for one am of the mindset that you dont trade down if the guy you really want is there.