Chris12345 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, gurn said: I am saying all players without no trade or no movement clauses are chips. Every single player without such a clause can and should be traded if the return is right. Example Bo Horvat to Ottawa for 6 first round picks. Exactly. If the price is right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, gurn said: I am saying all players without no trade or no movement clauses are chips. Every single player without such a clause can and should be traded if the return is right. Example Bo Horvat to Ottawa for 6 first round picks. I am trying to have a realistic conversation. I am not oblivious to the fact that Boeser, Petterson, Hughes and Horvat play for the team.. The Canucks traded away a 1st round pick which could have been used to get a top 4 RHD and instead chose to trade for a LW. Trading any of the core group opens up a whole new problem area for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDragon23 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mustapha said: Maybe you missed the last 50 years but Vancouver has been losing for decades. This team has never been good enough to mock the Oilers, despite their 'decade of failure' (where they have won more playoff series than the Leafs btw). The reality is that JB has to trade futures to get decent forwards on the team. They haven't been able to develop complimentary players, they are relying on raw talent like Boeser and Petey. And yeah, they overpaid big time considering the cap issues Tampa is in. But most people know what type of player JT Miller is, for all we know the 2020 1st rd pick will be Juolevi 2.0 John Weisbrod special. You want to live in the past like the Oilers management, then good for you. Despite not winning the Cup, the Canucks have been very successful. Back to back Presidents Trophies, 2 final appearances, multiple division/conference wins. It’s not about the past, it’s about the present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) If we are aiming for the playoffs you might as well not half ass it. Trade a couple guys like Sutter, Baertschi, Spooner, Beagle that way you can go after another top 6 forward like Nyqvist or Panarin if youre ballsy. Youd still have cap to sign a D like Stralman and re-sign Boeser. Edited June 23, 2019 by Junkyard Dog 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TBL/draft.html# You can do your homework. He is a link to their drafting. Very underwhelming. The only substantial player they have drafted in the last 40 picks is Brayden Point. If the Canucks drafted 1st and 2nd overall in the last 10 years this roster would look dramatically different. Petterson, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes were all obtained in the last 40 picks. Not counting Demko, Joulevi and Gaudette. I think the Canucks win hands down. https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TBL/draft.html# If we have learned anything the team with the better player wins. Talk to me in four years. Pretty hilarious either way if TB drafts McDavid or Gaunce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losing With Pride Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, grandmaster said: You’re being ridiculous. They lost a piece and you think that puts them in a position to be a better contender? You can not replace a versatile 50 point young producer at just a 5M cap like they had. Good luck shopping for that... I’m being ridiculous? Tell me how his playoff stats are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said: If we are aiming for the playoffs you might as well not half ass it. Trade a couple guys like Sutter, Baertschi, Spooner, Beagle that way you can go after another top 6 forward like Nyqvist or Panarin if youre ballsy. Youd still have cap to sign a D like Stralman and re-sign Boeser. Exactly. Miller does nothing unless we add one more top six forward and 2 more d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Losing With Pride said: I’m being ridiculous? Tell me how his playoff stats are? I believe in addition by subtraction therefore my friend, you could be correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: I am trying to have a realistic conversation. I am not oblivious to the fact that Boeser, Petterson, Hughes and Horvat play for the team.. The Canucks traded away a 1st round pick which could have been used to get a top 4 RHD and instead chose to trade for a LW. Trading any of the core group opens up a whole new problem area for the team. The team needs forwards and D, they got a forward for their two picks and throw in goalie. Summer not even really started, many other ways to get a d or two. FYI Travis Myers is in Vancouver today taking a look around at the city and team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: I am trying to have a realistic conversation. I am not oblivious to the fact that Boeser, Petterson, Hughes and Horvat play for the team.. The Canucks traded away a 1st round pick which could have been used to get a top 4 RHD and instead chose to trade for a LW. Trading any of the core group opens up a whole new problem area for the team. We all agree that a D man was more important but what can you do when the other GMs don’t play ball? JB by all accounts was trying. He ended up getting a great player that fills a hole in the top 6 that is young and versatile. A player that will help Horvat become even better. The cap hit is a bargain and will be for years. Stop being so hung up on a first that may or may not become a pro. That first would also have likely been not as good as the Canucks will surely be a better team in the next couple years. This was a good trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: The player (Miller) is a great acquisition at a good cap hit. He is young too. The biggest problem I have with this trade is exactly what you say. I can't believe they would trade the best trade chip this team has for a forward. This team has so many forwards. I don't think that Miller makes this team better versus Barrie or Subban. Based off of what Subban cost NJ, the Canucks could have easily traded for him. He had his best years in NY, so I am not worried about him being effective in Vancouver. He is a very good fit with Petterson. Now if there is a master plan to sign Myers or trade for Ristolanien (with whom knows what at this point going the other way. Then no problem. But to trade a 1st round pick which has good value to another team for winger which this team has a million of is more than a little puzzling. To me this is my main criticism of Benning. He will acquire BPA no matter what. He doesn't really give enough thought to team building. This team has a massive need for two RHD in the top 4. So he spends the best trade chip on a LW??? He has been throwing 5th round picks at the problem (Clendenning, Larsen, Weber) rather than actually trying to get a substantial player to fill the void. I like Beagle but when you have Sutter and Horvat on the team do you really need to spend that amount of money on a another defensive center? Beagel-Sutter-Horvat sounds like playoff ready center depth. When you look at the defense it makes you want to throw up. I can't imagine that Buffalo would have turned down a 1st in 2020 and 3rd for Ristolanien. Maybe you through in Hutton, but that deal is for sure getting done. How do you not take that over Miller? Unless you are trading Boeser, you don't have enough value with Tanev, Sutter, Granlund, Hutton, Goldobin, Lievo, Baertschi, Stecher, 2nd round pick, Demko, Gaudette to turn it into a top 4 RHD. Now you have to trade Virtanen or Joulevi, selling them low and removing two players who could have a large impact on the future of the team. I have really liked Jim's tenure as he has amassed more quality talent with less than I could have imagined, but this deal is incredibly strange to me. Why does it seem strange? Since when do we ever get in the top 3 in the draft? Btw, that first round pick will be a late first round or mid at best which means most of the meat is off the bone first and then you settle for left over.. once in awhile it might go well but not worth the risk when you have a chance to upgrade your top 6 which we have. Picture JB working the phone to trade the extra forwards for D... How do you figure strange exactly? Oh and Maz was deemed expendable in lieu of Jake Kielly being signed and a 3rd round pick hardly ever makes it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, gurn said: The team needs forwards and D, they got a forward for their two picks and throw in goalie. Summer not even really started, many other ways to get a d or two. FYI Travis Myers is in Vancouver today taking a look around at the city and team. The need for D is substantially greater than at forward. Free agents will cost way too much and there is no guarantee they sign here. Its not like Miller was going to get traded 100% this weekend. The Canucks could have waited until July 1st to see who they can sign then make a trade for a RHD. Now they have to throw 7x7 at Myers which is going to be an awful deal in 3 years if not right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, gurn said: The team needs forwards and D, they got a forward for their two picks and throw in goalie. Summer not even really started, many other ways to get a d or two. FYI Travis Myers is in Vancouver today taking a look around at the city and team. Is he from the local beer league? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, grandmaster said: We all agree that a D man was more important but what can you do when the other GMs don’t play ball? JB by all accounts was trying. He ended up getting a great player that fills a hole in the top 6 that is young and versatile. A player that will help Horvat become even better. The cap hit is a bargain and will be for years. Stop being so hung up on a first that may or may not become a pro. That first would also have likely been not as good as the Canucks will surely be a better team in the next couple years. This was a good trade. I could careless about the draft pick. I have had a million discussions on here on how overrated they are. This team just doesn't have a lot of trade chips. This was the biggest one. You don't send off the biggest trade chip for a LW not matter how solid of a player he is. I really like the player, cap hit, age and team fit. I think the deal is fair value and even somewhat of a steal. BUUUUUUT this team needs defense and Myers at 7x7 is not what I am looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: I could careless about the draft pick. I have had a million discussions on here on how overrated they are. This team just doesn't have a lot of trade chips. This was the biggest one. You don't send off the biggest trade chip for a LW not matter how solid of a player he is. I really like the player, cap hit, age and team fit. I think the deal is fair value and even somewhat of a steal. BUUUUUUT this team needs defense and Myers at 7x7 is not what I am looking for. We basically gave up a mid to late 1st rounder for a fast tracked former 1st round pick in his prime. People just dont get it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: If we are aiming for the playoffs you might as well not half ass it. Trade a couple guys like Sutter, Baertschi, Spooner, Beagle that way you can go after another top 6 forward like Nyqvist or Panarin if youre ballsy. Youd still have cap to sign a D like Stralman and re-sign Boeser. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, iceman64 said: Why does it seem strange? Since when do we ever get in the top 3 in the draft? Btw, that first round pick will be a late first round or mid at best which means most of the meat is off the bone first and then you settle for left over.. once in awhile it might go well but not worth the risk when you have a chance to upgrade your top 6 which we have. Picture JB working the phone to trade the extra forwards for D... How do you figure strange exactly? Oh and Maz was deemed expendable in lieu of Jake Kielly being signed and a 3rd round pick hardly ever makes it.. The goalie is irrelevant, the pick maybe a valuable player 4-5 years from now and the 3rd is 20% chance to play NHL hockey. Again no problem with any of that. Subban was available and easily obtainable. Barrie may have cost a 1st, Gaudette and Lind + whatever. Risotlanien I believe would be possible with a 1st +. Why was this not the priority? Now that the 1st is gone that is no longer really possible unless you deal someone off the core or Joulevi or Virtanen +++. Why sell low on those two? I don't like this from a team building perspective at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Losing With Pride said: I’m being ridiculous? Tell me how his playoff stats are? You never answered the question. How is Tampa going to find a versatile 50 point producer at his age and cap hit? It’s impossible. That’s why you can’t answer it. As for your question, I didn’t pay attention to his playoffs this year. He wasn’t the only one that may have struggled, show, ask your friend and captain of that team. The guy who made double the salary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, captainhorvat said: We basically gave up a mid to late 1st rounder for a fast tracked former 1st round pick in his prime. People just dont get it... totally get it. Completely and utterly get it. The right hand side of the defensive ledger looks throw up bad. There are and were available players who could have improved the team instead the GM chose a LW. Regardless of how good he is this team need a RHD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LW. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: I could careless about the draft pick. I have had a million discussions on here on how overrated they are. This team just doesn't have a lot of trade chips. This was the biggest one. You don't send off the biggest trade chip for a LW not matter how solid of a player he is. I really like the player, cap hit, age and team fit. I think the deal is fair value and even somewhat of a steal. BUUUUUUT this team needs defense and Myers at 7x7 is not what I am looking for. What can you do when jerks like Sakic want Boeser for Barrie? That’s the kind of crap JB was likely dealing with... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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