[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[Amebushi]

50 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Literally the only people I have seen that are okay with this trade are the typical CDC homers who ALWAYS defend every move that is made.

 

Pierre Lebrun thought it was too much

Ray Ferraro thought it was too much

Every radio personality I've listened to thinks it was too much

Fans of other teams think it was too much

Most Canuck fans overall I'm guessing think it's too much

 

Hell, even the Canucks weren't okay with it.. "JT Miller for Marek Mazanek, a 3rd and a conditional pick"

 

People okay with it: aGent, fakenews(oldnews), Hutton's Wink, Robb Zepp etc etc. The usuals

 

Even if it was a fair trade, it still doesn't exclude the fact that it might not have been the right trade, so we're questioning two different trains of thought here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was it too much?  Right now it’s hard to say. If JT sucks, all our D get hurt and we miss the playoffs for two more years then yes...if the team competes in 2021 and makes some noise in the playoffs led by an actual top line then I would say no. You have to give quality to get quality so I think we can agree we have given quality. Let’s see how it pans out in the end before deciding a winner of this trade. 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

Is it worth it if we make the playoffs next year, get bounced in 5 games and lose the 16th overall pick in the deepest draft since 2015/03?

Yes, it’s worth it.  We need to accept that JB thinks our young core us set, and ready to push for a playoff spot.  If a 

GM feels that way, then it’s time to support those young core guys with players to give them their best chance to succeed.  The Leafs traded their first (20) in this draft for Muzzin.  They believed their core is set, and deserved the support to give them their best chance to succeed.  

It’s the same philosophy.  

[Pure961089]

As the Canucks have proven over the years 1st round draft picks are no guarantee.  What is guaranteed is we’re getting a proven 20 goal scorer who just turned 26 with cost certainty locked up for $5.25 mill for 4 years. Finally we have a second line with him and Horvat. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Pure961089 said:

As the Canucks have proven over the years 1st round draft picks are no guarantee.  What is guaranteed is we’re getting a proven 20 goal scorer who just turned 26 with cost certainty locked up for $5.25 mill for 4 years. Finally we have a second line with him and Horvat. 

Didn’t the Flames just let two first rounders (Reichel and Lazar) walk?  “Better the bird in hand, then two in the bush.”

[48MPHSlapShot]

These hypotheticals that people come up with are really stupid, because you can come up with any sort of hypothetical to fit any narrative you want.

 

If Tampa used the pick we traded to them to select the next Kucherov, then no, it obviously wasn't worth it.

 

However, if in 3 years time, JT Miller scores the goal that wins the Stanley Cup, then it was worth it.

 

What if Miller gets the primary assist on the goal that ensures we land home ice in the first round of the playoffs, and because we had home ice, we were able to make a run to the Stanley Cup. Was it worth it then?

 

What if Miller throws a hit on a player, dislodging the puck and allowing Pettersson to scoop it up and score the game winning goal in a game that otherwise would have gone to overtime, a hypothetical overtime in which Horvat would have been taken out at the knee and thus missed the first round of the playoffs, where we then would have been eliminated because we didn't have enough secondary scoring because Horvat was still injured? However, because Miller threw the hit that dislodged the puck that allowed Pettersson to score, thus ensuring the game didn't go into overtime where Horvat was injured, we did have enough secondary scoring to take out whoever we were playing in the first round, and we go on to win the cup. Is it worth it then?

Edited June 26, 2019 by 48MPHSlapShot

[coryberg]

42 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Is it worth it if we make the playoffs next year, get bounced in 5 games and lose the 16th overall pick in the deepest draft since 2015/03?

Ah yes the 2003 draft the best draft ever. Who went #16? Steve Bernier the elite 4th liner.

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, Sean Monahan said:

Elliot Friedman and Chris Johnston thought it was a fair deal. A gamble, but a calculated (and not outrageous) risk. 

"I LOVE the Miller trade" - Andrew Walker

 

Suddenly, I'm not so sure...

[Aspie]

I know everyone wanted to keep the 1st round but at some point this team needs to start pushing to a playoff run or we’d be wasting the young talent we have now.

 

Our rebuild was already stalled by trying to stay competitive for the Sedins when they were playing. Now we have the young pieces to build around. The more I begin to look at our forward group the more I see 20-goal-scorers throughout our top 9. Now the question is how the defense will form to compete and shut down the opponents.

[Gaudette Celly]

4 minutes ago, Aspie said:

The more I begin to look at our forward group the more I see 20-goal-scorers throughout our top 9. Now the question is how the defense will form to compete and shut down the opponents.

"Hold my beer..." - JB

[Pure961089]

4 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

"Hold my beer..." - JB

I can see Pearson, he’s scored over 20 goals before, but Spooner for $4 mill?  SMH.  

[gerry35]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

Is it worth it if we make the playoffs next year, get bounced in 5 games and lose the 16th overall pick in the deepest draft since 2015/03?

Yes it would be if that happened, the young core needs experience and we don't want to be a franchise that accepts losing and stays in a perpetual rebuild. 

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

Is it worth it if we make the playoffs next year, get bounced in 5 games and lose the 16th overall pick in the deepest draft since 2015/03?

If we’re simply talking value for this trade, in a weird way it’s best if we miss the playoffs next year and win a round (at least) in 2021. But really, I’ll take making the playoffs and being bounced in round 1 next year if it stops the hand wringers from talking about losing a lottery pick.

 

As for next years draft, they’re always calling every draft “very strong or deep.” I googled “2017 deep nhl draft” and they were comparing the 2016 or 2017 draft to 2015 and 2003 on HF.  Look pretty average to me.  Honestly, draft coverage and prospect discussion and mock drafts etc etc are such a racket right now you can’t escape the hype.  

 

They’d never just come out and say “this is a pretty meh draft, not much to see here.” They can always barf out a bunch of names.

[Gaudette Celly]

18 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

I can see Pearson, he’s scored over 20 goals before, but Spooner for $4 mill?  SMH.  

?

[Pete M]

another thing about JT Miller is that he has played for winning franchises all his career...he brings a winning attitude and experience with him.

Teams need to learn how to win...JT has played for two very good teams that did a lot of winning.

 

He'll be a good voice in the room...

 

...what has Tavares ever won at the NHL level...with the Isle he never made the playoffs and with the leafs, he got bounced in the first round (has only played 7 playoff games)..

 

JT at least went to the Finals with NYR and has played 61 playoff games.

 

No 2020 or 2021 1st round pick will bring that experience and if they do...it will be 7 or 8 years from now

Edited June 26, 2019 by Pete M

[Westcoasting]

3 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Is it worth it if we make the playoffs next year, get bounced in 5 games and lose the 16th overall pick in the deepest draft since 2015/03?

This is a great point! I don't care for the trade but i understand it and why. Every trade is a careful gamble. And who knows about drafting, every year there is a Corey Perry at the end of the 1st round and there is also a top 10 bust it seems. I don't know too much about miller as I've only seen him in like 5 or 6 games, really hoping he clicks with either of the two top lines or it turns into a clusterfock again!

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

If we’re simply talking value for this trade, in a weird way it’s best if we miss the playoffs next year and win a round (at least) in 2021. But really, I’ll take making the playoffs and being bounced in round 1 next year if it stops the hand wringers from talking about losing a lottery pick.

 

As for next years draft, they’re always calling every draft “very strong or deep.” I googled “2017 deep nhl draft” and they were comparing the 2016 or 2017 draft to 2015 and 2003 on HF.  Look pretty average to me.  Honestly, draft coverage and prospect discussion and mock drafts etc etc are such a racket right now you can’t escape the hype.  

 

They’d never just come out and say “this is a pretty meh draft, not much to see here.” They can always barf out a bunch of names.

I agree with your thoughts but have you considered if the Nucks miss the playoffs again do you think Benning will be Gm still? I think at this point is do or die for him and then what happens when new management comes in. Maybe its a good thing and maybe it makes things worse... I don't pretend to know either.

[ilduce39]

4 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

I agree with your thoughts but have you considered if the Nucks miss the playoffs again do you think Benning will be Gm still? I think at this point is do or die for him and then what happens when new management comes in. Maybe its a good thing and maybe it makes things worse... I don't pretend to know either.

I get the feeling that since he’s going into this season without an extension that, yeah... if he misses the playoffs by a fair margin he’s likely let go.  Further, I think he’s toast by Christmas if the team flops to start the year.  

 

It’s different if the team shows promise and battles for a spot down to the last week or two.  Especially if the prospects and offseason acquisitions are looking shiny.  I think improvement like that and he’s likely safe.

Edited June 26, 2019 by ilduce39

[Westcoasting]

1 minute ago, ilduce39 said:

I get the feeling that since he’s going into this season without an extension that, yeah... if he misses the playoffs by a fair margin he’s likely let go.  Further, I think he’s toast by Christmas if the team flops to start the year.  

 

It’s different if the team shows promise and battles for a spot down to the last week or two.  Especially if the prospects and offseason acquisitions are looking shiny.  I think improvement like that and he’s likely safe.

Exactly my thoughts as well!  

 

[Silver Ghost]

The age, cap hit, and toolbox of Miller are already good news for the Canucks. Add in that by all accounts he plays consistently hard and adjusts quickly to any linemates and situation. These are absolutely underrated positives of Miller for the Canucks.

 

He is also a versatile piece to add to the PP. He is an excellent puck retriever and net front presence, and an above average passer. One more weapon on the PP.

 

I love how this guy plays and I want to see him seize this increased opportunity. 

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

What makes is a monumental mistake;

VANCOUVER -- Alexis Lafreniere of Rimouski in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League will headline a strong class of prospects expected to be available in the 2020 NHL Draft at Bell Centre in Montreal on June 26-27, 2020.

The left wing (6-foot-1, 186 pounds) was awarded the Michel Briere Trophy as the QMJHL's most valuable player after scoring 105 points (37 goals, 68 assists) in 61 regular-season games and 23 points (nine goals, 14 assists) in 13 playoff games this season.

"He's special for sure; a gifted offensive guy who thinks the game very well and is strong on his skates," Troy Dumville of NHL Central Scouting said. "He's only going to get better as next year comes around."

 

[RELATED: Complete NHL Draft coverage]

 

Lafreniere has 185 points (79 goals, 106 assists) in 121 career QMJHL games, averaging 1.53 points per game.

"He reminds me of Gilbert Perreault," Hockey Hall of Famer Wayne Gretzky told Sportsnet. "He can skate, handle the puck. He's just around the puck so much. When you have that much puck sense, that much speed, I can see him being a center at the next level."

Lafreniere isn't the only player expected to attract attention in the QMJHL next season. Center Hendrix Lapierre (6-0, 165) of Chicoutimi, right wing Dawson Mercer (6-0, 170) of Drummondville and defenseman Justin Barron (6-2, 192) of Halifax are three blue-chip players projected to go in the first round.

Lapierre was second on the Sagueneens with 45 points (13 goals, 32 assists) and first with 16 power-play assists. Mercer had 64 points (30 goals, 34 assists) in 68 games for the Voltigeurs, and Barron had 41 points (nine goals, 32 assists) in 68 games for Halifax, which finished second in the Memorial Cup.

"The 2020 Draft class is looking like a well-rounded class in that there is a more even spread of talent throughout the leagues than what we've seen the past couple seasons," director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr said. "While there is top talent in every draft class, the past couple years have been lean years in certain leagues and in 2020 the initial view is that there is more depth to the Draft and it's spread all throughout North America."

The USA Hockey National Team Development Program Under-18 team may not have as many first-round picks (eight) as it produced this year, but defensemen Jake Sanderson (6-2, 170), Brock Faber (6-0, 188) and Tyler Kleven (6-4, 190) and forwards Ty Smilanic (6-1, 167) and Dylan Peterson (6-4, 185) are potential high selections. 

 

Sanderson, the son of former NHL forward Geoff Sanderson, is a mobile, puck-moving defenseman with elite skating ability and work ethic. Faber, according to 2019-20 U-18 coach Seth Appert, is strong on his skates and hard to play against. Kleven is a throwback type, capable of a few game-changing hits since he is a physically imposing player, good athlete and competitor.

Smilanic, who had 38 points (20 goals, 18 assists) and eight power-play goals in 54 games for the U-17's, is an elite skater. Peterson, who had 29 points (eight goals, 21 assists) in 53 games last season, is a highly-skilled, point-producing power-forward down around the net.

The Ontario Hockey League players to watch are centers Marco Rossi (5-9, 179), who scored 65 points (29 goals, 36 assists) in 53 games for Ottawa, Quinton Byfield (6-4, 214), who had 61 points (29 goals, 32 assists) in 64 games for Sudbury, and Cole Perfetti (5-10, 185), who finished tied with Florida Panthers forward prospect Owen Tippett for the club scoring lead with 74 points (37 goals, 37 assists) in 63 games. 

Erie defenseman Jamie Drysdale (5-11, 165), who had 40 points (seven goals, 33 assists) in 63 games, could be a top-10 choice.

The Western Hockey League might not have as many prospects at the top of the draft as it did this year, but defensemen Braden Schneider (6-2, 209) of Brandon and Kaiden Guhle (6-3, 187) of Prince Albert are players to watch. Schneider had 24 points (eight goals, 16 assists) and 106 shots on goal in 58 games and Guhle had 17 points (three goals, 14 assists) and 74 shots in 65 games.

There's a strong group of International prospects, including potential top-2 choice Lucas Raymond of Frolunda in the Swedish Hockey League. The right wing (5-10, 165 pounds) had 48 points (13 goals, 35 assists) in 37 games for Frolunda's Under-20 junior team last season before playing 10 games and scoring two goals with the men's team. He had eight points (four goals, four assists) in seven games to help Sweden to its first gold medal at the 2019 IIHF World Under-18 Championship; he scored a hat trick in a 4-3 overtime win against Russia in the championship game.

"Raymond is a highly competitive player with speed and skills," said Goran Stubb, NHL director of European Scouting. "He's always going hard for the puck, makes plays and is a force whenever he's on the ice. He's smart with great offensive instincts and a good understanding of his defensive responsibilities. He's going to be a top-three European prospect for the 2020 Draft."

Right wing Alexander Holtz (6-0, 183) of Djurgarden (SHL), center Anton Lundell (6-1, 183) of HIFK in Liiga, Finland's top professional men's league, and goalie Yaroslav Askarov of SKA-1946 St. Petersburg in Russia's minor league are also considered blue chip prospects. Askarov (6-3, 163) had a 2.31 goals-against average and .916 save percentage in six games to help Russia to a second-place finish at the IIHF World U-18 Championship in April.

 

 

Should have been trading FOR 1rst round picks

We are not gonna do bad enough to get Lafreniere