Jim Benning Deserves Better!

[vannuck59]

9 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I don't think anyone is arguing fans don't have the right, but rather than they're flat out ignorant with their often baseless (or at minimum misguided/skewed) opinions.

 

There seems to be two consistent narratives among Canucks fans: 1) One that sees things in a realistic way and will praise or critique as necessary; and 2) One that incessantly sees things negatively. 

 

I agree that if JB brings a cup to Vancouver everyone will revere him, but what's sad is that the latter mentioned will b & m until he does, all while missing all the positives along the way. 

Don't get me wrong I gave him a B grade . Thats pumping his tires . But we all expect more and want more its his job 

[18W-40C-6W]

1 minute ago, sonoman said:

Cream puff’s go to guy

 

I aged myself by understanding that reference! 

[sonoman]

1 minute ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

I aged myself by understanding that reference! 

Although I love Stephen Colbert,  there is no one like Johnny Carson

[Big Time]

7 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

The Eriksson signing is just a small part of a big blunder, which was the path he chose at the start. 

 

When he was hired he had assets to use for a rebuild of this team.  Instead, he "went for it" signing expensive free agents and letting those assets walk for nothing or age and lose value.  Instead of bringing in draft picks, he traded them away to compete.  Instead of competing, we had the worst team in the league over that 3 year period.  A waste of assets to accomplish an epic fail.   Eriksson is just a part of that mess.  Luckily, that epic fail led to high draft picks so we have Petey & Hughes to build around.  

 

Benning's biggest win, is installing a great scouting staff.  So if you're looking at players that could pan out and ignore how we got here, you can definately look at things from a positive angle.  But it's just silly for people to say they don't understand why he gets hate. 

Thank you.  People seem to forget it's not just about the bad moves he's made, it's about the good moves he has failed to make.  For example:
 

• Failed to trade Hamhuis and Vrbata at the TDL and let them walk for nothing.  And don't come at me over the NTC's.  That is pure nonsense.  If he had been proactive in trying to trade these players, he could have got them to waive as he did with Garrison.  That's what a competent GM does.
• Rather than recognizing how terrible Grudbranson was, he doubled down and signed him to an extension, which he ultimately then traded for another underperforming overpaid player.
• Consistently over pays in price and term to 4th liners:  Beagle, Schaller, Dorsett.
• Failed to recognize when a player's prime has past, and does not move players while they still have value - Tanev, Edler.
• Outside of Gaudette and Demko, does not have a single roster player drafted outside of the first round on the team.
• Every player in Utica regressed last year, and Benning is still bringing back the same staff
• Regularly overpaid in trades with draft picks
• Failed to weaponize cap space
• Places inordinate value on intangibles such as being good in scrums and in the room
• Appears to be on the verge of signing Myers to a boat anchor contract

Benning has been lucky in the draft, but even his overall body of work in the draft is vastly overstated here.

The question I keep asking is is this the GM you want at the helm going into the prime years of your young players?  Because quite frankly, there have to be at least two dozen other potential GMs out there that would AT LEAST be the same, and more than likely, have more vision and general management skills than Jim.

.

 

[Pickly]

It doesn’t help that our local sports media continually slam Benning non stop day in and day out for every move he’s made and the things he hasn’t done. 

[theo5789]

9 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Miller needs to work on his shot. 13 goals last year, he will get more chances with EP. 

The 1st we traded is worth more because JB is great at drafting. 

I don't think we are a playoff team yet. And if we do squeak into the post season I don't think we have a strong chemistry/mix of players for the battle of  the NHL  playoffs.

When we are at the bottom looking up that 1st round pick could be another Brock/EP/Byram type of player we need. 

Miller is great but I just think the timing is a bit premature. 

 

All in all JB can recoup the differences if he takes care of our extra bodies and turns some magic with our cap space.

He has 20+ the two seasons prior. He was shuffled into a 3rd line role this season, but still managed a lot of assists. His role is more to retrieve pucks and get it to the shooters, so sometimes his work isn't rewarded on the stat sheet. On the PP the shooters are Stamkos and Kucherov (and Point), so he knows his job is to get them the puck which is what he will do for EP and BB after chasing the puck down or creating space for them.

[Jester13]

20 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Don't get me wrong I gave him a B grade . Thats pumping his tires . But we all expect more and want more its his job 

That's kind of my point. He's been giving more since he got the green light to start the rebuild, yet the goal posts keep getting moved on him by some fans. 

 

It just seems like some fans won't ever be satisfied unless he makes every move they think he should make, which is incredibly narcissistic on their part.

[vannuck59]

20 minutes ago, Big Time said:

Thank you.  People seem to forget it's not just about the bad moves he's made, it's about the good moves he has failed to make.  For example:
 

• Failed to trade Hamhuis and Vrbata at the TDL and let them walk for nothing.  And don't come at me over the NTC's.  That is pure nonsense.  If he had been proactive in trying to trade these players, he could have got them to waive as he did with Garrison.  That's what a competent GM does.
• Rather than recognizing how terrible Grudbranson was, he doubled down and signed him to an extension, which he ultimately then traded for another underperforming overpaid player.
• Consistently over pays in price and term to 4th liners:  Beagle, Schaller, Dorsett.
• Failed to recognize when a player's prime has past, and does not move players while they still have value - Tanev, Edler.
• Outside of Gaudette and Demko, does not have a single roster player drafted outside of the first round on the team.
• Every player in Utica regressed last year, and Benning is still bringing back the same staff
• Regularly overpaid in trades with draft picks
• Failed to weaponize cap space
• Places inordinate value on intangibles such as being good in scrums and in the room
• Appears to be on the verge of signing Myers to a boat anchor contract

Benning has been lucky in the draft, but even his overall body of work in the draft is vastly overstated here.

The question I keep asking is is this the GM you want at the helm going into the prime years of your young players?  Because quite frankly, there have to be at least two dozen other potential GMs out there that would AT LEAST be the same, and more than likely, have more vision and general management skills than Jim.

.

Bravo  .This is what the fans want we want great not good enough!

[higgyfan]

9 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Miller needs to work on his shot. 13 goals last year, he will get more chances with EP. 

Miller played on Bolts' 3rd line with low o-starts, but the previous 3 yrs he scored 22-23 goals.  I think he might end up with +/- 30 goals, what with PP + high o-starts and...well, Pete + Brock.

 

Quote

The 1st we traded is worth more because JB is great at drafting. 

I don't think we are a playoff team yet. And if we do squeak into the post season I don't think we have a strong chemistry/mix of players for the battle of  the NHL  playoffs.

Perhaps.    If they don't make the playoffs this year, our disappointment will be short term until we realize we get a lotto pick.  The following season is another offseason away and they will still have cap space to improve the team.  Also, there should be a lot of movement as team's start adjusting their roster for the ED, so there could be some decent players available during the season.

 

Quote

When we are at the bottom looking up that 1st round pick could be another Brock/EP/Byram type of player we need. 

Miller is great but I just think the timing is a bit premature. 

Maybe.  There's a greater chance that the Canucks make the playoffs in the 20-21 season, due to the factors I have stated earlier.  Our team has some character guys, who just might ramp up their game enough to end up in the #16-19 range for the draft, which makes losing the pick less painful. 

 

Regardless, JB might be able to recapture the loss by making a trade for a 1st; especially if he can utilize cap space or trade for another team's protected player, whom they want to unload.  If you look at Canucks 20/21 roster, there are really not many Fs that need to be protected, due to so many ending contracts and becoming ufa's.  Depending on what JB adds for Dmen, the d's won't have more than 3 that need protecting and that is including Stecher.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Seattle cannot select pending UFAs and we have a number of players in that boat.

 

Quote

 

All in all JB can recoup the differences if he takes care of our extra bodies and turns some magic with our cap space.

Yep.

 

I think he's put a lot of thought into how he staggars the contracts so that he has enough cap space to pay the high end players as they become rfa's, as well as making sure they are in good shape for the ED.

Edited June 25, 2019 by higgyfan

[Sbriggs]

3 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

I was thinking the same. I would have said similar things, but my post would have been liberally sprinkled with words like: troll, simpleton, brain dead, willfully, blatantly dishonest, etc, leaving me at risk of getting my knuckles rapped by the mods.

Maybe he's an Oilers fan who has to find someone else to be pissed at

[CreamCheese]

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

A. We won’t have cap issues I think you need to work on your math. 

 

B. You clearly don’t watch HOW Ehlers and Nylander play in the playoffs and understand why the way they play translates into weak production / contribution. They play permitter hockey with talented players. That works in the reg season. JV has improved every year as a pro in ALL facets of the game. If you watch playoff hockey, you’d know that a kid with his skill set contributes a lot more to a TEAM than 2 players who disappear, and he can play in his own end, and he’s payed 1.5 mil vs $8 to disappear.

 

C. McCann breakout! Much like Grabner he’s been traded twice now. And he’s on Pittsburgh. Maybe consider the team he’s playing on. Funny how McCann is ready for a breakout but of course JV isn’t when they’ve put up close to similar numbers! 

 

D. Some say OJ won’t become a top 4? Who? Sami Salo who coached him in Finland and agrees with me? Or internet trolls on this site and hockey forums? I tend to put more stock in the evaluation of pros.

 

E. Again, you whine about money - are you paying? Do we have cap issues, did we miss out signing anyone because of it? No,  No and No. it has no bearing on anything how much they were paid. You’re looking to complain about JB and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. 

 

F. We will have cap issues? Uhh. No we won’t, I guess you don’t understand how players age out and we don’t re-sign them or trade them? And as a result, contracts come off the books, and are replaced with young guys on ELCs and cheaper contracts.  I’d happily see your mathematical analysis of this future cap crunch you’re talking about lol!!! Easy to say things, much harder to prove them isn’t it? 

 

G. Again, lottery pick? Hmm so this team is going to not miss the playoffs this year, and miss it next? Odd concern if you look at the way the team is constructed. I’d think the year after next, given Bo, Petey, Boeser, Hughes, OJ, Tryamkin, Jake, Miller, have a year more experience under their belts, we should be more than ready for a playoff spot. But then again, maybe I think teams are here to win not tank to keep acquiring picks!  

 

Looking forward to seeing the mathematical analysis of the cap crunch you’re talking about! 

 

 

 

I disagree with you on everything, however I respect your opinions. I will end it at this, don't be short sighted when it comes to cap space. More than likely the Canucks are going to over pay for a UFA this summer, and Brock is about to get 7mill. Cap space troubles come fast and furious if you're not careful, assume we sign Myers at 7mill and Brock at 7mill we're close to the max cap space and the issues will begin. 

 

Have a good day =] 

[Tomatoes11]

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

What lottery pick? Can you see the future? If so what’s tomorrow’s 6-49 numbers bro! 

 

JB haters keep saying lottery pick like somehow we are going to make the playoffs this year and then not the following and it will be a lottery pick. 

 

Meanwhile, reasonable and knowledgeable hockey fans can look at our roster, what’s coming (likely UFA RD, Tryamkin in March and maybe Podkolzin early, OJ), and recognize that the way the team is constructed, it’s actually more likely that if they miss the playoffs, it would this coming season and not the following. Moreover, with Petey, Bo, Boeser, Hughes 2 yrs older, thinking those guys will miss is a bit odd.

 

But that would take a rational, objective, knowledgeable hockey fan.

Lol do you even read the replies written to you using context? 

 

The guy I replied to, which might have been you, justified trading a 1st round pick with the reasoning if we are a lottery team in 2021 we have bigger issues. How is that even in anyway a valid justification? It’s not, it’s a really illogical validation. If we have huge issues and are a 2021 lottery team, that makes losing our lottery pick okay because our other issues overshadow that? What?! Lol That’s the most ridiculous thing I ever read.

 

Frankly, a lot of the Benning defense is illogical and invalid in my eyes but this one is by far the biggest head scratcher. 

[Tomatoes11]

3 minutes ago, CreamCheese said:

 

I disagree with you on everything, however I respect your opinions. I will end it at this, don't be short sighted when it comes to cap space. More than likely the Canucks are going to over pay for a UFA this summer, and Brock is about to get 7mill. Cap space troubles come fast and furious if you're not careful, assume we sign Myers at 7mill and Brock at 7mill we're close to the max cap space and the issues will begin. 

 

Have a good day =] 

Don’t bother with them. Too many overly optimistic fans here that can’t see good and bad value moves if it smacked them in the face. Benning moves definitely trend in pissing away value at every turn and having these so called fans trying to cover it up with really weak excuses.

[Zhukini]

He's been here for 5 years, wait for the thread on that. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol do you even read the replies written to you using context? 

 

The guy I replied to, which might have been you, justified trading a 1st round pick with the reasoning if we are a lottery team in 2021 we have bigger issues. How is that even in anyway a valid justification? It’s not, it’s a really illogical validation. If we have huge issues and are a 2021 lottery team, that makes losing our lottery pick okay because our other issues overshadow that? What?! Lol That’s the most ridiculous thing I ever read.

 

Frankly, a lot of the Benning defense is illogical and invalid in my eyes but this one is by far the biggest head scratcher. 

Clearly you believe our young core is not complete.  I, on the other hand, believe our young core is set, and is ready to compete for the playoffs.  Considering that, JB did the right thing adding a top six winger to support those young players.  If the draft pick moves to 2021, that player will not contribute to our current core, even as a support player, until (likely) 2024.  Our winder for winning with this young core will (perhaps?) be closing, especially considering the current cap not seemingly to rise.

I definitely understand the concern with giving up any first round pick.  However, considering our young core group needs support to achieve their best, I feel the move was justified. 

[vannuck59]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Clearly you believe our young core is not complete.  I, on the other hand, believe our young core is set, and is ready to compete for the playoffs.  Considering that, JB did the right thing adding a top six winger to support those young players.  If the draft pick moves to 2021, that player will not contribute to our current core, even as a support player, until (likely) 2024.  Our winder for winning with this young core will (perhaps?) be closing, especially considering the current cap not seemingly to rise.

I definitely understand the concern with giving up any first round pick.  However, considering our young core group needs support to achieve their best, I feel the move was justified. 

Alf how can you say its complete. we are two D and one top 6 forward away at minimum 

[18W-40C-6W]

15 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol do you even read the replies written to you using context? 

 

The guy I replied to, which might have been you, justified trading a 1st round pick with the reasoning if we are a lottery team in 2021 we have bigger issues. How is that even in anyway a valid justification? It’s not, it’s a really illogical validation. If we have huge issues and are a 2021 lottery team, that makes losing our lottery pick okay because our other issues overshadow that? What?! Lol That’s the most ridiculous thing I ever read.

 

Frankly, a lot of the Benning defense is illogical and invalid in my eyes but this one is by far the biggest head scratcher. 

It wasn’t a justification if you read the context as you responded to my post. There is no “lottery” pick we gave away. 

 

Have we we played the 2020-2021 season yet? I didn’t think so 

[18W-40C-6W]

18 minutes ago, CreamCheese said:

 

I disagree with you on everything, however I respect your opinions. I will end it at this, don't be short sighted when it comes to cap space. More than likely the Canucks are going to over pay for a UFA this summer, and Brock is about to get 7mill. Cap space troubles come fast and furious if you're not careful, assume we sign Myers at 7mill and Brock at 7mill we're close to the max cap space and the issues will begin. 

 

Have a good day =] 

Yep run and hide when someone asks you to back up your cap trouble statement with actual math and analysis. Maybe the Canucks should hire you since they’re so stupid they don’t know about the salary cap and thinking about the implications of the cap moving forward based on contacts they sign today! (Sarcasm) 

 

love it! Thanks for proving me right 

 

again happy to see you do an actual analysis vs baseless hyperbole 

Edited June 25, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, vannuck59 said:

Alf how can you say its complete. we are two D and one top 6 forward away at minimum 

Young core moving forward, who we will keep, while other players (support guys) move in and out as our prospects push into spots.  

 

Pettersson C-1

Bo C-2

Boeser W-1

Hughes D-1

Demko G-1

 

That's our young core.  IMO other players are all support guys.  With the cap system, the top guys are getting paid a lot of the total cap, so the core group becomes smaller, and the support guys move in and out a lot more.  

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

His role is more to retrieve pucks and get it to the shooters, so sometimes his work isn't rewarded on the stat sheet. On the PP the shooters are Stamkos and Kucherov (and Point), so he knows his job is to get them the puck which is what he will do for EP and BB after chasing the puck down or creating space for them.

Looks like the same role Loui had... And look how much critizism Loui got for being that guy.