[TRADE] Erik Haula to Carolina

[Stelar]

10 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

Carolina is pretty effectively weaponizing that cap. Haula just one year removed from a 50 point season for a guy that looks to be a number 7 to career AHLer dman. They’re making the moves I was hoping Benning would make when he suggested the weaponizing cap scenario.

What cap space?  After we sign our RFAs, Brock and a FA defenseman we will be almost at the cap.  

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I don't wanna re-hash the JT Miller thing. That horse has been beaten dead. But that trade wasn't exactly 'pennies on the dollar' like this Haula trade is.

 

Compared to Miller - Haula only has 1 year - for sure, but Carolina gave up nothing to get him so. And they have a year to try & sign him. 

We got a better player than Haula with a better and longer contract, who was in higher demand, for less than he'd normally cost.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by aGENT

[Azzy]

Roy is likely to never make the NHL, so this is a pure cap dump. But coming just days after the Canes cleared cap in that dreadful Calvin de Haan deal, you have to wonder if Waddell actually has a plan, or if he's simply making deals as he goes. I'd rather have kept de Haan and Saarela than acquired Haula and Forsling.

[theo5789]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We got a better player than Haula with a better and longer contract, who was in higher demand, for less than he'd normally cost.

 

 

 

 

 

Nicolas Roy would be similar to us trading Gaudette in the same scenario. Gaudette is better than Roy, but I'm sure not many would think it was a good deal for us had we made the same trade because the argument would be Haula's contract expires in a year and he only played 15 games last year, so he would be "declining" with his injuries. Funny how much more reasoning and optimism comes up when other teams make deals that aren't seen in the same light if done by Benning.

[Bure_Pavel]

11 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Nothing going on here so go read hfcanucks on the Haula trade.  One of those mouth breathing morons stated there is not much of a difference between haula and JT Miller!!??

 

Haha....that guy is legit retard level.

To be fair Haula was injured most of last year, but the year before he played 75 games and finished with 29 goals and 55 points. If we get that from Miller I will be happy. 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Nicolas Roy would be similar to us trading Gaudette in the same scenario. Gaudette is better than Roy, but I'm sure not many would think it was a good deal for us had we made the same trade because the argument would be Haula's contract expires in a year and he only played 15 games last year, so he would be "declining" with his injuries. Funny how much more reasoning and optimism comes up when other teams make deals that aren't seen in the same light if done by Benning.

Yeah - some people here going on as if this is the type of deal Benning 'should have' made as opposed to the Miller deal.

But a whole range of reasons that makes no sense.

First, as you point out, Roy is a good prospect - not simply a warm body going the other way - he's a young guy with size who has developed solidly in his draft plus years, and has already earned NHL looks.

Second - Haula is not only expiring, and older than Miller, but he's also 25 or 30lbs lighter,  not as physical, not as versatile - hasn't had very good 5 on 5 results - isn't imo a very good fit to play on the EP/Boeser line that needs more of a hard areas, heavier, two way guy that creates space and also provides support in his own zone - which was the entire point of the Miller acquisition.   Spending a prospect on Haula is an odd alternative coming from the crowd that is critical of Benning for acquiring Miller, as if spending less (but still spending futures) on a player that doesn't suit a principal need, is supposed to make more sense than what Benning did.

Edited June 27, 2019 by oldnews

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

We got a better player than Haula with a better and longer contract, who was in higher demand, for less than he'd normally cost.

... Wait, what??? 

 

At absolute best, that was straight up fair value. And there are some 'ifs' tied to that (us making the playoffs, for starters).

[oldnews]

8 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I guess this gives Eakin a reprieve. He will stay on as 3C.

 

Roy provides AHL depth and potential call up as a center for VGK.

 

Vegas still gotta move 1-2 contracts and sign at least one more Dman.

 

Reaves is next on the list to move IMO. Should be a few takers on that...

I'd offer them Schaller with retention for Reaves and a 'prospect' swap.

 

They'd get a serviceable depth forward for 950k, and save 1.825 on Reaves - both expire - not that consequential imo.

 

To Vegas

Schaller 50% retained

Gaunce's rights (to July 1st)

 

To Vancouver

Reaves

Dylan Coghlan

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, oldnews said:

I'd offer them Schaller with retention for Reaves and a 'prospect' swap.

 

They'd get a serviceable depth forward for 950k, and save 1.825 on Reaves - both expire - not that consequential imo.

 

To Vegas

Schaller 50% retained

Gaunce's rights (to July 1st)

 

To Vancouver

Reaves

Dylan Coghlan

TRUCULENCE!

[canuck73_3]

12 minutes ago, D-Money said:

... Wait, what??? 

 

At absolute best, that was straight up fair value. And there are some 'ifs' tied to that (us making the playoffs, for starters).

You should see what Tampa paid to get him...

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

TRUCULENCE! 

Truculence is ok - I think he'd probably be about 13 on a healthy depth chart - would probably have Leivo over him for the 4LW spot - but if Roussel isn't healthy (at least to start) - then you have some optional truculence (more than Schaller has brought).

 

But the point moreso, for me, is the young RHD prospect.

Vegas may not want to give that up - but as it stands, they don't really have the cap to sign a UFA depth D - so being in a 'contending' position, this cap flexibility would be valuable to them, and put them in a better position once they assign Clarkson to I.R.  In spite of that though, they need to clear more space - so if we're going to 'weaponize cap', imo this is a  deal that lands us a prospect - and makes far more sense imo than giving one up to bring in a Haula.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Truculence is ok - I think he'd probably be about 13 on a healthy depth chart - would probably have Leivo over him for the 4LW spot - but if Roussel isn't healthy (at least to start) - then you have some optional truculence (more than Schaller has brought).

 

But the point moreso, for me, is the young RHD prospect.

Vegas may not want to give that up - but as it stands, they don't really have the cap to sign a UFA depth D - so being in a 'contending' position, this cap flexibility would be valuable to them, and put them in a better position once they assign Clarkson to I.R.  In spite of that though, they need to clear more space - so if we're going to 'weaponize cap', imo this is a  deal that lands us a prospect - and makes far more sense imo than giving one up to bring in a Haula.

Reaves could factor into the fourth line pretty well. He's still probably one of the most intimidating players in the game, and would be welcome on the team. Having the a young right handed defense prospect from Duncan would be great too.

[Amebushi]

Some people will really find any excuse to hate on Jim Benning. This was a cap dump for Vegas. Haula is a player with a decent track record who was injured most of last year and is on an expiring contract. JT Miller is a 26 year old consistent 50 point guy on a good contract with a few years left. Other teams would be competing to get him. Roy is a prospect (not going to get into arguing how good of one here) but the trade suited their needs. These two deals have little to nothing in common. You have to give to get...Carolina gambled cap space that Haula can stay healthy and contribute, Benning is gambling a somewhat protected first that JT can be better with EP and BB than he was on the fourth line in Tampa. Both sound like fair bets, just one has higher stakes. 

[Bure_Pavel]

8 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

Some people will really find any excuse to hate on Jim Benning. This was a cap dump for Vegas. Haula is a player with a decent track record who was injured most of last year and is on an expiring contract. JT Miller is a 26 year old consistent 50 point guy on a good contract with a few years left. Other teams would be competing to get him. Roy is a prospect (not going to get into arguing how good of one here) but the trade suited their needs. These two deals have little to nothing in common. You have to give to get...Carolina gambled cap space that Haula can stay healthy and contribute, Benning is gambling a somewhat protected first that JT can be better with EP and BB than he was on the fourth line in Tampa. Both sound like fair bets, just one has higher stakes. 

One trade is a way bigger gamble than the next, this is a great deal for Carolina. Their GM has made many great trades and weaponized their cap space to make them a contender, if they get some goaltending watch out.  

[Amebushi]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

One trade is a way bigger gamble than the next, this is a great deal for Carolina. Their GM has made many great trades and weaponized their cap space to make them a contender, if they get some goaltending watch out.  

I don’t disagree. I do feel they are both gambles though. If JT pans out and fits in well we could have one if the best top lines in the NHL though. Big bets pay off huge when they win. Just ask the Raptors. I wouldn’t mind if he could pull off something like the Carolina Vegas trade to pull a Dman from a cap strapped team as well. 

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

Some people will really find any excuse to hate on Jim Benning. This was a cap dump for Vegas. Haula is a player with a decent track record who was injured most of last year and is on an expiring contract. JT Miller is a 26 year old consistent 50 point guy on a good contract with a few years left. Other teams would be competing to get him. Roy is a prospect (not going to get into arguing how good of one here) but the trade suited their needs. These two deals have little to nothing in common. You have to give to get...Carolina gambled cap space that Haula can stay healthy and contribute, Benning is gambling a somewhat protected first that JT can be better with EP and BB than he was on the fourth line in Tampa. Both sound like fair bets, just one has higher stakes. 

I agree with you in general, but I think the concept of a 'cap dump' has gotten pretty confused on these boards.

 

I think the prospect that Carolina parted with - a pretty good one - is a clear indicator that, in spite of Vegas' tightness with cap (which has probably been over-stated when people actually look closer at their context) - Haula was not a 'cap dump' = he returned positive value to Vegas - unlike the Marleau deal where the Leafs also surrendered a 1st round pick.

 

They moved Haula, perhaps slightly less expensively than some people may have expected (depending on your take on this player - I think he had an outlier season that I wouldn't necessarily expect to see repeated, but you never know)....

But I think there are a lot of people who are misreading the 'weaponization of cap' thing.   The cap tightness that teams feel do not necessarily make their relatively decent/good NHL assets cap dumps (particularly ones like Haula, with reasonable cap hit at short term)  - it simply deflates the value of these players slightly / somewhat reduces their team's leverage in moving them - but not to the point where every trade involving a contract is necessarily a 'cap dump.'  And in the end, I think Vegas actually got a good young player out of this - it did not cost them an asset to move Haula (didn't really expect it would) - so this is a move to clear cap, but not really a cap dump.

[Bure_Pavel]

4 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

I don’t disagree. I do feel they are both gambles though. If JT pans out and fits in well we could have one if the best top lines in the NHL though. Big bets pay off huge when they win. Just ask the Raptors. I wouldn’t mind if he could pull off something like the Carolina Vegas trade to pull a Dman from a cap strapped team as well. 

Roy has not put up a point in the NHL and if you compare his AHL stats to someone like Goldobin they are just alright. He could develop into a good bottom six guy but to trade him straight up for a likely 20 goal scoring center, even if its just for one year is a great gamble. 

 

His 2.75 cap hit is very reasonable even as a third line center as well. Surprised they didnt get more from Carolina

Edited June 27, 2019 by Bure_Pavel

[aGENT]

44 minutes ago, D-Money said:

... Wait, what??? 

 

At absolute best, that was straight up fair value. And there are some 'ifs' tied to that (us making the playoffs, for starters).

Nope. Miller under normal circumstances would be worth a 1st, good prospect and a mid pick. We got away without paying the prospect.

[Ryan Strome]

36 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You should see what Tampa paid to get him...

To be fair iirc wasn't he traded along with Ryan Mcdonagh?

 

I like Miller and I'm alright with the cost we paid. I actually think he will do really well on a line with EP and BB.

 

[Ryan Strome]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nope. Miller under normal circumstances would be worth a 1st, good prospect and a mid pick. We got away without paying the prospect.

I like Miller and I think he has more to give but I don't think that is his value. Again I'm fine with what we paid but would be furious if we paid what you're suggesting.