[Report] Minnesota to become sellers

[Provost]

As per TSN, the Wild are definitely in the sell mode.  Dumba is specifically on the block, and we have been long linked to Zucker who is available again.

 

Both players could fit our needs and the idea of not being pure rentals as they are both signed for beyond this year.  Benning was looking for upgrade on D and a top six winger.
 

Dumba seems like a great add as he pops basically replace Tanev beyond this season as a younger, faster, and more gritty player.

 

What possible  pieces do we have to make a deal for one or both.

 

I would say that any of our prospects aside from Hoglander and Podkolzin could be on the list going the other way.  From our roster, Sutter, Demko, and either Stecher or Tanev.

 

We would probably need to send out Baertschi to make some money even out.

 

A deal for Dumba could look like:

 

Madden

Sutter

Demko

Baertschi

a pick 

 

for

Dumba

Stalock

and whatever contracts to even it out  

 

We trade Stecher in a separate deal

 

Toronto could probably beat that deal if they want him by offering up a serious forward.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Provost

[Chris12345]

That's a poor deal for Minny. Why would they want Baer or Sutter?

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Chris12345 said:

That's a poor deal for Minny. Why would they want Baer or Sutter?

Well Sutter is to replace Koivu As a 3rd line centre who comes off their books after the season and he. Ridges the gap until Madden is ready.

 

Baertschi is a cap throw in because they are getting a couple of really good prospects and a pick in the deal that will help them keep cap space with guys on ELCs.

[HerrDrFunk]

I feel like Minnesota isn't going to let Dumba go for anything less than a 1st or a grade A prospect. 

[mll]

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

Well Sutter is to replace Koivu As a 3rd line centre who comes off their books after the season and he. Ridges the gap until Madden is ready.

 

Baertschi is a cap throw in because they are getting a couple of really good prospects and a pick in the deal that will help them keep cap space with guys on ELCs.

Koivu is C2.  C3 is ErikssonEk.  Ek has been terrific as shutdown C - that line with Foligno (previously Greenway) and Kunin is their shutdown line.  They have Sturm in the minors that can replace Koivu - he played well when Koivu was injured.  Their issue is lack of legit top-6 Cs.  

 

In one of his mailbags this season Russo said that Sutter could be had and that Guerin was not interested.  He was looking for a young top-6 C.

 

Guerin was on record saying he will have to trade a winger out to make room for Kaprisov - can't see them wanting to add wingers when they have too many.

Dumba has looked terrible this season and some wonder if he will regain his shot after pectoral surgery.  Not sure he'll get the top-6 C that Guerin is looking for but that's probably the price or picks to draft one.  

 

The Wild have goalie Kahkonen - he showed well during his recall.  Not sure they would have interest in Demko.  Wouldn't surprise me if they want to cap dump Dubnyk rather than Stalock. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by mll

[Provost]

1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I feel like Minnesota isn't going to let Dumba go for anything less than a 1st or a grade A prospect. 

The pick could be a Lottery protected 1st (The one we don’t give up to Tampa)... but hopefully a 2021 2nd.

 

For a legit young D who could be a top pairing and under club control, that gives us what we would hope to get in a late 1st round pick anyways.

 

Seems like a lot if you add in a couple of good prospects like Madden and Demko... but that basically checks off an important piece going forward and with one of Hoglander and Podkolzin hopefully panning out as a top 6, our roster core would be pretty set for a long time.

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Koivu is C2.  C3 is ErikssonEk.  Ek has been terrific as shutdown C - that line with Foligno (previously Greenway) and Kunin is their shutdown line.  They have Sturm in the minors that can replace Koivu - he played well when Koivu was injured.  Their issue is lack of top-6 Cs.  

Edited January 17, 2020 by Provost

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

The pick could be a Lottery protected 1st (The one we don’t give up to Tampa)... but hopefully a 2021 2nd.

 

For a legit young D who could be a top pairing and under club control, that gives us what we would hope to get in a late 1st round pick anyways.

 

Seems like a lot if you add in a couple of good prospects like Madden and Demko... but that basically checks off an important piece going forward and with one of Hoglander and Podkolzin hopefully panning out as a top 6, our roster core would be pretty set for a long time.

With the margin for error being razor thin in the Pacific division, I wouldn't be comfortable trading another 1st before the end of the season. If it was a situation where the Canucks were dominating? That would be different; but right now there's only a 2 point separation between 1st and 5th. I've got faith in the Canucks but I'd much prefer them to have more of a safety net if the wheels come off down the stretch. 

[Provost]

Whoops pressed send on that without adding.

 

I am assuming Ek graduates to the 2nd line next season.  Madden also gives them another prospect C in the pipeline.

[Fanuck]

Before people get into a feeding frenzy regarding the TDL, I think it's pertinent to remind everyone:

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks

 

We have essentially ZERO cap-space available therefore making any acquisitions a scenario of 'incoming cap = outgoing cap'.  It was speculated that several of our non-core pieces have been available for some time (Baer/Sutter/Loui (obviously)/Schaller/Goldy/Boucher) and there have been no takers. 

 

We are nowhere near an 'elite' team right now - yes, we are on the 'rise' but not there yet.  IMO we are not in a position to be significant 'buyers' right now at the expense of our prospects/picks.  You don't survive in the current NHL cap-world without drafting/developing within your own system as the base of your team; therefore I'm for staying the course, keeping our picks/prospects and maybe just 'fine-tuning' if the right deal presents itself. 

 

 

[higgyfan]

Canucks cannot even think of acquiring Dumba, as JB spent his wad on Meyers.

 

I was soooo disappointed when he picked up Meyers last summer, as there were so many better options coming up in this years' UFA market.  RD was the most important position to fill, what with Tanev probably leaving and a very skimpy offerings in the prospect pool.

 

Seeing Meyers play on the 3rd pairing last night added more angst to my growing concerns about him.  5 more seasons...

[GB5]

50 minutes ago, Provost said:

As per TSN, the Wild are definitely in the sell mode.  Dumba is specifically on the block, and we have been long linked to Zucker who is available again.

 

Both players could fit our needs and the idea of not being pure rentals as they are both signed for beyond this year.  Benning was looking for upgrade on D and a top six winger.
 

Dumba seems like a great add as he pops basically replace Tanev beyond this season as a younger, faster, and more gritty player.

 

What possible  pieces do we have to make a deal for one or both.

 

I would say that any of our prospects aside from Hoglander and Podkolzin could be on the list going the other way.  From our roster, Sutter, Demko, and either Stecher or Tanev.

 

We would probably need to send out Baertschi to make some money even out.

 

A deal for Dumba could look like:

 

Madden

Sutter

Demko

Baertschi

a pick 

 

for

Dumba

Stalock

and whatever contracts to even it out  

 

We trade Stecher in a separate deal

 

Toronto could probably beat that deal if they want him by offering up a serious forward.

 

 

To get a player like Dumba you can't just throw big contracts at them and expect them to bite.

 

Generally the price for this kind of deal is a roster player, a prospect and a pick. The Cnaucks would be doing very well if they could make such a deal without giving up a high pick for any player.

[Provost]

23 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Before people get into a feeding frenzy regarding the TDL, I think it's pertinent to remind everyone:

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks

 

We have essentially ZERO cap-space available therefore making any acquisitions a scenario of 'incoming cap = outgoing cap'.  It was speculated that several of our non-core pieces have been available for some time (Baer/Sutter/Loui (obviously)/Schaller/Goldy/Boucher) and there have been no takers. 

 

We are nowhere near an 'elite' team right now - yes, we are on the 'rise' but not there yet.  IMO we are not in a position to be significant 'buyers' right now at the expense of our prospects/picks.  You don't survive in the current NHL cap-world without drafting/developing within your own system as the base of your team; therefore I'm for staying the course, keeping our picks/prospects and maybe just 'fine-tuning' if the right deal presents itself. 

 

 

Except we are suddenly now in a window where we need to take advantage of having our superstars on ELCs and showing them we can win before having to negotiate long term contracts.  The deal above actually makes cap room to sign our guys, but is at the expense of some futures.  Similar to the Miller trade, which is about making us better now and in the future.

 

If we don’t make that cap room right now, we are in some serious cap trouble over the next two years.  The Petterson and Hughes ELC bonuses for this year will push into next year; and next year’s bonuses will push into the year where we have to pay retail for those guys.  There is no “stay the course” option where we don’t get significantly worse.

 

We have a solid set of players in the pipeline that will be coming on-board over the next few seasons.  We aren’t going to be slotting in 2-3 roomies per year in times when we hope to contend.

 

Next year we have either Juolevi or Hoglander coming on in addition to probably MacEwan as a FT player.  The year after that we have Podkolzin and Lind who could be ready to slot into the lineup.  Then we will have our future picks in the coming years to be developing as well.... they just might not be 1st rounders.

 

Dumba effectively replaces Tanev money so no real long term cap implications on that.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Provost

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

To get a player like Dumba you can't just throw big contracts at them and expect them to bite.

 

Generally the price for this kind of deal is a roster player, a prospect and a pick. The Cnaucks would be doing very well if they could make such a deal without giving up a high pick for any player.

So the deal literally includes two roster players (one veteran and one rookie(; a prospect; and a pick....

 

 

[Provost]

Just to make everyone angry...

 

Do you do Boeser and a good prospect like Madden (plus cap to even it out) for Dumba and Zucker?

 

They get hometown face of the franchise boy and he gets to be close to family.

[Monty]

Remember what the Jets got for moving Zach Bogosian and Kane? Myers, Stafford, 1st round pick (Jack Roslovic), and Brendan Lemieux. While Kane was the main piece, Bogo at the time still had value, hence the return.

 

Dumba is 10x the player Bogosian ever was, and is younger than he was when he was moved. Won’t come cheap. Nor should he.

[mll]

45 minutes ago, Provost said:

Whoops pressed send on that without adding.

 

I am assuming Ek graduates to the 2nd line next season.  Madden also gives them another prospect C in the pipeline.

ErikssonEk doesn't have the offensive instincts to be a C2.  He's really good as a shutdown C that annoys opponents though.    

 

The thing is that the Wild has already done average with players like Granlund, Coyle, Niederreiter as young core - as Leipold says good is not good enough.  Guerin is tasked to build an elite Cup contender.  They need high end talent - difference makers.  You could say the same of any team but that's the task for Guerin.  Leipold isn't interested in just making the playoffs. 

 

Russo wrote earlier this month (before the Wild started struggling):  "He (owner Leipold) trusts Guerin as GM, and let me promise you that Guerin wants to turn this team into an elite Cup contender, not a middling team on an 87-point pace. Any realist would look at this team and say they’re good, not great."

 

I don't see how they are going to get those elite players other than by draft.  LeBrun earlier in the season suggested that Wild management wouldn't mind finishing in the lottery.  

 

Guerin told Russo that some of their players are in high demand and have a lot of value.  That drives prices up if several teams are targeting the same player.

 

The Wild have too many veterans on long-term contracts who are probably unmovable - Dubnyk, Zuccarello, Parise, Suter.  So the few assets they have need to turn into key future pieces towards building a new core.

 

Guerin is all excited about Kaprisov - reason he talks of moving a winger out, really likes Boldy - haven't heard him on Fiala recently but he is like no other player they have.  Would think that's the start of a core.  Getting guys out of that age group would just keep them in that no man's land.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by mll

[Glug Datt]

I'd love JB to go after dumba, but I don't think we have the space or the expendable assets at this point.. 

 

hard pass on Zucker.. 

[D-Money]

14 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Canucks cannot even think of acquiring Dumba, as JB spent his wad on Meyers.

 

I was soooo disappointed when he picked up Meyers last summer, as there were so many better options coming up in this years' UFA market.  RD was the most important position to fill, what with Tanev probably leaving and a very skimpy offerings in the prospect pool.

 

Seeing Meyers play on the 3rd pairing last night added more angst to my growing concerns about him.  5 more seasons...

I'm neither here nor there on Myers. It's obviously not a great contract, but that's par for the course when adding UFAs (especially when you're not a winning team). He filled a glaringly obvious need, and neither the salary nor the term was extraordinarily burdensome (it's only 4 more seasons ...).

 

And although we can say that the RD UFA market looks great next year at this moment, we all know how few of these guys make it to free agency. (For instance, it seemed like some of Erik Karlsson, Drew Doughty, Ryan Ellis, and/or Nate Schmidt would be UFA RD last July 1st, but none of them actually made it to FA).

 

When you desperately need a RD, and one is available - and he actually wants to sign with you (not a given!) - sometimes you have to take your shot.

[D-Money]

10 minutes ago, Monty said:

Dumba is 10x the player Bogosian ever was, and is younger than he was when he was moved. Won’t come cheap. Nor should he.

This.

 

I doubt it would get done without involving Boeser or Podkolzin.