Identifying RHD Prospects to Acquire (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Hello peoples! (Obviously this will be after the season's over)

 

So, after reading a couple of Trade proposals and looking at our own prospect list, it is obvious we need another Right Hand Defensive Prospect.........

 

We are at a time where we are now close to competing at a high level and we are looking pretty darn flush with young prospects, which is in fact the very reason Benning was able to acquire Toffoli.............(Do not use Hogs/Pods/Juolevi /Rathbone or DiPietro)

 

What I would like to do here is look at other teams RHD prospects/or 1st years,  which may be of interest to us, and who we may we able to acquire

 

I will start........

 

Noah Dobson.......Dobson will cost an equal pick/prospect, which we should not give up. In addition, the Islanders will not be moving him except for a huge overpayment

Bode Wilde...........with Ryan Pullock and Noah Dobson taking the top 2 RHD positions, Wilde may be obtainable?

Cal Foote..............Tampa is in Cap trouble and will not be moving a young ELC, unless it is to move cap.........I do not see it personally

Nils Lundqvist........An interesting prospect in the NYR have an abundance of RHD......Trouba, Deangelo, Fox are all top end RHD, so the question is, is Lundqvist available?

Les Canadians?....With Brooks, Juulsen, and Fleury all in the minors, would one be available? If so, would he be the right candidate? Does Juulsen peak your curiosity?

 

Those are the names, I know about, and wonder if we could obtain, with some of our young not top end prospects? Maybe a lateral move? Maybe too early? IMO, we may be able to obtain 1 with Demko?Lind, but that is as far as I would go?

 

Are any worth wanting? Do you have another an mind? I would love to hear of any more, that are hidden in some teams system, that we may be able to get, and would have a upside of a starting 4 RHD.

 

If you agree with one of my names...do you agree with the cost? Do you have another in mind....and what would the cost be?

 

Npte...this is more of a discussion of what is out there and what is available at what cost.......................this is a "PROSPECTS" discussion

 

Teach me o' Wise ones! Please!

[N4ZZY]

19 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hello peoples! (Obviously this will be after the season's over)

 

So, after reading a couple of Trade proposals and looking at our own prospect list, it is obvious we need another Right Hand Defensive Prospect.........

 

We are at a time where we are now close to competing at a high level and we are looking pretty darn flush with young prospects, which is in fact the very reason Benning was able to acquire Toffoli.............(Do not use Hogs/Pods/Juolevi /Rathbone or DiPietro)

 

What I would like to do here is look at other teams RHD prospects/or 1st years,  which may be of interest to us, and who we may we able to acquire

 

I will start........

 

Noah Dobson.......Dobson will cost an equal pick/prospect, which we should not give up. In addition, the Islanders will not be moving him except for a huge overpayment

Bode Wilde...........with Ryan Pullock and Noah Dobson taking the top 2 RHD positions, Wilde may be obtainable?

Cal Foote..............Tampa is in Cap trouble and will not be moving a young ELC, unless it is to move cap.........I do not see it personally

Nils Lundqvist........An interesting prospect in the NYR have an abundance of RHD......Trouba, Deangelo, Fox are all top end RHD, so the question is, is Lundqvist available?

Les Canadians?....With Brooks, Juulsen, and Fleury all in the minors, would one be available? If so, would he be the right candidate? Does Juulsen peak your curiosity?

 

Those are the names, I know about, and wonder if we could obtain, with some of our young not top end prospects? Maybe a lateral move? Maybe too early? IMO, we may be able to obtain 1 with Demko?Lind, but that is as far as I would go?

 

Are any worth wanting? Do you have another an mind? I would love to hear of any more, that are hidden in some teams system, that we may be able to get, and would have a upside of a starting 4 RHD.

 

If you agree with one of my names...do you agree with the cost? Do you have another in mind....and what would the cost be?

 

Npte...this is more of a discussion of what is out there and what is available at what cost.......................this is a "PROSPECTS" discussion

 

Teach me o' Wise ones! Please!

I'm not familiar with all the names on your list. I know Dobson, Wilde, Foote, Juulsen. The rest I'm not overly familiar. 

 

I don't think the Islanders will part with Dobson. If they are, we'd have to overpay just to get him. Overpaying to the point where it wouldn't make sense to make that deal. So no. 

 

Cal Foote? I agree with your sentiment. They're in cap trouble, just like we are, so we ain't taking cap on just to take on Foote. 

 

I'm not sure who Nils Lundqvist is - is he any good? Where was he drafted? Is he a highly touted prospect? 

 

I think with Dobson - we're looking at probably Demko, a grade A prospect (Höglander?), and a pick or two to land Dobson. That's too much in my opinion. So hard pass. 

 

Juulsen might actually be available. Might be had for a prospect and a pick? 

 

I dunno. I'm terrible at playing armchair GM. haha

 

 

 

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

28 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm not familiar with all the names on your list. I know Dobson, Wilde, Foote, Juulsen. The rest I'm not overly familiar. 

 

I don't think the Islanders will part with Dobson. If they are, we'd have to overpay just to get him. Overpaying to the point where it wouldn't make sense to make that deal. So no. 

 

Cal Foote? I agree with your sentiment. They're in cap trouble, just like we are, so we ain't taking cap on just to take on Foote. 

 

I'm not sure who Nils Lundqvist is - is he any good? Where was he drafted? Is he a highly touted prospect? 

 

I think with Dobson - we're looking at probably Demko, a grade A prospect (Höglander?), and a pick or two to land Dobson. That's too much in my opinion. So hard pass. 

 

Juulsen might actually be available. Might be had for a prospect and a pick? 

 

I dunno. I'm terrible at playing armchair GM. haha

 

 

 

 

 

Me too! Which is why I did it this way....just want to hear what idea's people have.

[mll]

2 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm not familiar with all the names on your list. I know Dobson, Wilde, Foote, Juulsen. The rest I'm not overly familiar. 

 

I don't think the Islanders will part with Dobson. If they are, we'd have to overpay just to get him. Overpaying to the point where it wouldn't make sense to make that deal. So no. 

 

Cal Foote? I agree with your sentiment. They're in cap trouble, just like we are, so we ain't taking cap on just to take on Foote. 

 

I'm not sure who Nils Lundqvist is - is he any good? Where was he drafted? Is he a highly touted prospect? 

 

I think with Dobson - we're looking at probably Demko, a grade A prospect (Höglander?), and a pick or two to land Dobson. That's too much in my opinion. So hard pass. 

 

Juulsen might actually be available. Might be had for a prospect and a pick? 

 

I dunno. I'm terrible at playing armchair GM. haha

 

 

 

 

 

 

NYI wouldn't want Demko.  They've just signed their future number 1 goalie in Sorokin.  They've brought in Varlamov to mentor him.  NYI is in cap trouble and only have 10M to extend Barzal, Pulock and Toews.  They are most certainly not parting ways with Dobson on an ELC.  He has also been playing well according to Trotz.

 

Montreal are looking to add young Ds too.  Teams need cap space too and ELC players allow them to keep higher paid players.

 

[N4ZZY]

12 minutes ago, mll said:

 

NYI wouldn't want Demko.  They've just signed their future number 1 goalie in Sorokin.  They've brought in Varlamov to mentor him.  NYI is in cap trouble and only have 10M to extend Barzal, Pulock and Toews.  They are most certainly not parting ways with Dobson on an ELC.  He has also been playing well according to Trotz.

 

Montreal are looking to add young Ds too.  Teams need cap space too and ELC players allow them to keep higher paid players.

 

Seems like there's a few teams in the league that are in cap hell. will be interesting to see how they and the Canucks are able to shed salary. 

 

ELC players are key now aren't they? If they can produce right off the hope, they're also cheap since they're on ELC's. 

 

Yeah, so Dobson out of the question. That leaves the others from OP. 

 

I think the Canucks just need to draft their own RHD. They're usually so hard to come by trading wise. So many LHD, and not many RHD's. Lots of defenseman who are naturally LHD play on the right side cause there's such a shortage of RHD's in the league. 

 

This upcoming draft is a crucial one. Need to draft best available in the first round (which we don't have), and then I say we need to target RHD's after that since we got almost nothing in the system. 

[D-Money]

It’s going to be very hard to pry cheap talent away from other teams with the flat cap. As mentioned, we’ll probably just have to draft our own to find someone with top-4 ability.

 

In the meantime, plugging the hole with NCAA and undrafted free agents is probably how they’ll continue. It’s the way they’ve handled it so far - Rafferty, Stecher, even going back to Tanev. (Not to mention the steady stream of less successful signings, current examples are Chatfield and Eliot. Of course, most guys we draft aren’t going to become any better than them either.)

 

With the obvious organizational hole at the position, it gives us a leg up on signing RHD free agents, as they can see a clear path open to make the NHL. And every so often, a team strikes gold (Giordano, Krug, Schmidt, Dekeyser, Tanev, Greene, Dillon...).
 

It might even be an emerging organizational philosophy,. Perhaps they feel that it’s harder to identify potential defensive talent in the later rounds of the draft than forwards and goalies, and filling up defensive depth roles with undrafted free agents is more efficient. They had 9 picks in 2019, and didn’t take a single D-man. 
 

Edited August 12, 2020 by D-Money

[Patel Bure]

7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hello peoples! (Obviously this will be after the season's over)

 

So, after reading a couple of Trade proposals and looking at our own prospect list, it is obvious we need another Right Hand Defensive Prospect.........

 

We are at a time where we are now close to competing at a high level and we are looking pretty darn flush with young prospects, which is in fact the very reason Benning was able to acquire Toffoli.............(Do not use Hogs/Pods/Juolevi /Rathbone or DiPietro)

 

What I would like to do here is look at other teams RHD prospects/or 1st years,  which may be of interest to us, and who we may we able to acquire

 

I will start........

 

Noah Dobson.......Dobson will cost an equal pick/prospect, which we should not give up. In addition, the Islanders will not be moving him except for a huge overpayment

Bode Wilde...........with Ryan Pullock and Noah Dobson taking the top 2 RHD positions, Wilde may be obtainable?

Cal Foote..............Tampa is in Cap trouble and will not be moving a young ELC, unless it is to move cap.........I do not see it personally

Nils Lundqvist........An interesting prospect in the NYR have an abundance of RHD......Trouba, Deangelo, Fox are all top end RHD, so the question is, is Lundqvist available?

Les Canadians?....With Brooks, Juulsen, and Fleury all in the minors, would one be available? If so, would he be the right candidate? Does Juulsen peak your curiosity?

 

Those are the names, I know about, and wonder if we could obtain, with some of our young not top end prospects? Maybe a lateral move? Maybe too early? IMO, we may be able to obtain 1 with Demko?Lind, but that is as far as I would go?

 

Are any worth wanting? Do you have another an mind? I would love to hear of any more, that are hidden in some teams system, that we may be able to get, and would have a upside of a starting 4 RHD.

 

If you agree with one of my names...do you agree with the cost? Do you have another in mind....and what would the cost be?

 

Npte...this is more of a discussion of what is out there and what is available at what cost.......................this is a "PROSPECTS" discussion

 

Teach me o' Wise ones! Please!

Before 2021-2022:

 

1) Sign Pettersson to a 9 million 5 year deal before July 1st 2021.

2) Sign Hughes to a 8.5 million 8 year deal before July 1st 2021.

3) Go HARD after Dougie Hamilton on July 1st 2021).
 

 

Good thread and I also feel a similar concern.

 

I am also of the opinion that the Canucks have all of the necessary pieces, both short term and long term, *except* for a viable Edler replacement (I.e. a potential top pairing “all situations” defenseman that can eventually do what Edler is currently doing for us.   Brisebois, Juolevi, Woo, and Tryamkin are the closest thing we have to that, but none of those guys realistically project as NHL top pairing guys).

 

Anyways, lets have a look at your target list, along with the “untouchable” list that you created.

 

Untouchables = Hoglander, Podkolzin, Juolevi, Rathbone, Dipietro.

 

Given the above, I think Dobson would have to be taken off the list.   The asking price for Dobson likely would be Podkolzin (Podkolzin = better prospect, but Dobson = more important position and so it “evens out.”)

 

Juulsen doesn’t really pique my interest since he’s in a similar boat to Michael Ferland right now if I’m not mistaken (ie career in jeopardy).

 

Wilde is definitely attainable, but he doesn’t scream of “Edler replacement” to me as his defensive game is wildly inconsistent.   
 

Cal Foote is an RFA, but he’s also far from being considered a future top pairing all situations guy (or shut down guy).   It’s possible that he ends up being that guy, but I’m not sure if the acquisition cost would justify his potential (or lack thereof).

 

My suggestion:

 

1) Try and get both Pettersson and Hughes to “buy in” to taking shorter term cap friendly discounts so that the Canucks can have enough money to realistically build a winner.  Sign these players at these hits BEFORE July 1st 2021-2022.   Pettersson = 9 million at 5 years (the Sebastian Aho deal), Hughes at 8.5 million at 8 years, the Thomas Chabot deal.  Hughes gets more than Chabot due to a market adjusted deal (ie 8.5 being the modern day equivalent of what 8 was when Chabot signed, while 9 being the equivalent of what Aho signed when factoring in taxes) 
 

Show the agents of both players the dangers of what happened in Toronto (or is happening), and sell them on the Chicago model (I,e. Toews and Keith taking a 4-5 year deal of “cap friendly” money and then getting paid huge afterwards).    Perhaps both Hughes and Petey can be signed to shorter term deals at a very good relative cap hit (8-8.5 million?.  Thomas Chabot and Sebastian Aho as comparables).    Hughes = 8.5 million for 8 years + Pettersson at 9 million for 5 years (we will have to pay Petey a little more than Carolina paid Aho since players in Carolina pay far less in taxes and so my guess is that 8.4 million in Carolina is roughly the equivalent of 9 million take home pay in Vancouver).
 

2)  ON July 1st 2021, go HARD after Dougie Hamilton.   Do whatever it takes to bring him in.   Signing Hamilton might allow us to walk from Edler (dependent on cap space and dependent on development of other prospects within the system).
 

Roster on opening night 2021-2022 (October 2021).

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser 

Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli

Hoglander-Gaudette-Podkolzin 

Motte-#####-MacEwen

 

Hughes-Hamilton

Edler-Tanev (both gone if others within the Canucks system prove to be worthy 2nd pairing dmen)

Juolevi-Myers (potential 2nd pairing)

 

Markstrom

####### (Dipietro?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[JM_]

5 hours ago, mll said:

 

NYI wouldn't want Demko.  They've just signed their future number 1 goalie in Sorokin.  They've brought in Varlamov to mentor him.  NYI is in cap trouble and only have 10M to extend Barzal, Pulock and Toews.  They are most certainly not parting ways with Dobson on an ELC.  He has also been playing well according to Trotz.

 

Montreal are looking to add young Ds too.  Teams need cap space too and ELC players allow them to keep higher paid players.

 

whats going on with NCAA players? are there still free agents available or is that all over for this year? 

 

I still think our best trade option for Demko is Detroit, their goalie prospects are not great, and Demko is ready to split the year with Bernier and maybe even take over. Howard's done now as well. Detroit doesn't have any RHD prospects outside of Seider that we'd want tho. I guess Bowey but he's not a prospect anymore, but if we did a deal like Bowey for Demko + Loui I'd be very happy. 

[Patel Bure]

6 hours ago, mll said:

 

NYI wouldn't want Demko.  They've just signed their future number 1 goalie in Sorokin.  They've brought in Varlamov to mentor him.  NYI is in cap trouble and only have 10M to extend Barzal, Pulock and Toews.  They are most certainly not parting ways with Dobson on an ELC.  He has also been playing well according to Trotz.

 

Montreal are looking to add young Ds too.  Teams need cap space too and ELC players allow them to keep higher paid players.

 

Agreed about NYI and Demko.

 

I would suggest Ottawa or Detroit if the Canucks are looking to package Demko with a sweetener of some kind.   Demko is a better young goalie than anyone that Ottawa and Detroit has within their system, and so the Canucks can dump a bad contract (Eriksson hopefully), while taking on one of their goalie prospects or something.

[laddie]

How about Lassi Thomson from the Senators?  Good right handed puck moving dman with a good shot and first pass.  Ottawa will be hungry for goaltending prospects which might make for an interesting trade. Lassi

[qwijibo]

15 minutes ago, laddie said:

How about Lassi Thomson from the Senators?  Good right handed puck moving dman with a good shot and first pass.  Ottawa will be hungry for goaltending prospects which might make for an interesting trade. Lassi

The Sens have Hoberg. Demko hadn’t proven much more then Hoberg has so I doubt they’d move last years 19th OA pick for a redundant player 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

The Sens have Hoberg. Demko hadn’t proven much more then Hoberg has so I doubt they’d move last years 19th OA pick for a redundant player 

Demko has been better, but they aren't remarkably different based on pure stats: https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_comparegoalie.php?players[]=4464&players[]=4600&period=2019-2020%3AR%3A99

 

But I don't agree about the idea of Demko being redundant to Ottawa. They won't be signing any big name free agent goalies so its going to have to be an in-house effort to get a starter. Its not clear at all thats going to be Hogberg and they may want to run with both these guys next year to see who can be their next starter. 

[mll]

8 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

Demko has been better, but they aren't remarkably different based on pure stats: https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_comparegoalie.php?players[]=4464&players[]=4600&period=2019-2020%3AR%3A99

 

But I don't agree about the idea of Demko being redundant to Ottawa. They won't be signing any big name free agent goalies so its going to have to be an in-house effort to get a starter. Its not clear at all thats going to be Hogberg and they may want to run with both these guys next year to see who can be their next starter. 

 

They have Nilsson signed for another year at 2.6M.  Don't see them demoting him or going with 3 goalies.  They might prefer to wait until after the expansion draft and make a trade then.

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

 

They have Nilsson signed for another year at 2.6M.  Don't see them demoting him or going with 3 goalies.  They might prefer to wait until after the expansion draft and make a trade then.

 

right! sorry forgot about him 

 

what do you think of a Demko to Detroit possibility? 

[NorthWestNuck]

What about Jake Bean from Carolina? They have the depth on D he might be available...

[Phil_314]

Out of the list OP made, Wilde seems the most attainable (Dobson's blue chip, Foote will probably be used as a sweetener in case they need to dump anyone, which I doubt they do; Lundkvist is offensively minded, but we don't really need more rovers IMO; if the Habs won't trade young D then Juulsen's probably off the table).

I'd go for Haydn Fleury from Carolina (someone else before had suggested him for a slumping Virtanen), who wouldn't be playing if Pesce and Vatanen weren't out.  Defensively minded and a right-side guy, he can probably make an impact if he's mobile and smart enough to play stable.

Regarding drafting, I agree with the poster above who said we should draft and develop our own right side impact D.  Now though the team only has a 3rd rounder as its earliest pick, there's some good prospects out there in that range (https://thehockeywriters.com/2020-nhl-draft-final-rankings-defencemen/ e.g. Krutil looks good upon brief browsing at his info, I'm sure there's others if we spend 3-4 of our picks at least on RHD).

[smithers joe]

i’ld go after rd calen addison and ld carson soucy from minny.  i like jared mcisaac,  ld from detroit. 

[KariyaSakicAnderson]

11 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Before 2021-2022:

 

1) Sign Pettersson to a 9 million 5 year deal before July 1st 2021.

2) Sign Hughes to a 8.5 million 8 year deal before July 1st 2021.

3) Go HARD after Dougie Hamilton on July 1st 2021).
 

 

Good thread and I also feel a similar concern.

 

I am also of the opinion that the Canucks have all of the necessary pieces, both short term and long term, *except* for a viable Edler replacement (I.e. a potential top pairing “all situations” defenseman that can eventually do what Edler is currently doing for us.   Brisebois, Juolevi, Woo, and Tryamkin are the closest thing we have to that, but none of those guys realistically project as NHL top pairing guys).

 

 

on the left side the Canucks are in very good shape going forward, with Hughes and Juolevi and Rathbone.  Edler will most likely play another 2 years after this contract expires, giving Juolevi  enough time to be groomed into that Edler all situation type D-man. I have always seen OJ as a Mattias Ohlund type dman and I fully believe that he will be. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

Off Course this all changes if Rathbone and Juolevi both excel and they move Hughes over to the right side....

 

That totally changes things.......then there is Tryamkin and Woo, so maybe there isn't such a hole after all??????

 

I think Calen Addison is too small, Joe, but I like that LHD Jared McIsaac

[KariyaSakicAnderson]

As many have said, Noah Dobson is not leaving Long Island.  He is too important to them.  Nor do I see Tampa moving Foote, maybe they could be persuaded to move Cernak?

Bode Wilde is a very possible get but is 2 years away, me thinks.

I could see Montreal moving one of Fleury or Brooks, they need LD so there could be something there.

Nils Lundkvist I like, he is more offensive than defensive but I think he may be able to do it all. He may be similar to Rathbone.

Carolina has a lot of dman, Antoni Honka could be an option and probably easier to get than Nils Lundkvist and probably cheaper. But again 2 years away.

Washington not sure if they'd move Jonas Siegenthaler, he is similar type of player to Nikita. both shoot left but play right side. Always like Jonas

not sure of anyone else but these may be some that could fit and I can see a trade happening with

Not sure if Buffalo would move Henri Jokiharju.. but he would be someone I'd try to get.. especially if Buffalo sticks with Risto, Miller and Montour

Edited August 13, 2020 by KariyaSakicAnderson