[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Vegas Golden Knights | Aug. 25, 2020 | Series tied 1-1

[BarnBurner]

9 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

This was Marky "discussing" it with Sutherland.

Let's meet in the back alley after the game! 

 

We can discuss it then...

[Kragar]

54 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

He was on the top PP in LA. He was playing big minutes in LA. A lot of players get traded to a team and then do really well for a brief amount of time and then start to stagger off. You're putting way too much weight on a very small sample size. If he can play the entire year at a PPG he worth a lot more than 5-6m. He hasn't earned a huge payday based on 10 regular season games and 2 playoff games.

Look what happens when you get traded to a "team like that" 

[alt kilgore]

3 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I'd hate to see some sort of fan fuelled thing like that, I don't think it would sit well with his team mates.

 

I hope Loui picks termination, but if not there is a solution to moving him. Either way I don't think he'll be our problem next season. 

I guess I'd agree that his team mates would not appreciate a fan fuelled move like that.  But there are just so many good reasons (12 big ones) for him to do the right thing for the team. 

 

But I disagree in the sense that his presence won't be a problem. Its his contract not him, if we want to re-sign players like Tavev.  Or Toffili, Boeser, Markstrom, Stecher, Or adding final pieces.  It could mean the difference in putting us over the top to be a true cup contender.

[Screw]

14 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

 

This was very concerning for me as well.

[Mackcanuck]

7 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I'd hate to see some sort of fan fuelled thing like that, I don't think it would sit well with his team mates.

 

I hope Loui picks termination, but if not there is a solution to moving him. Either way I don't think he'll be our problem next season. 

Tell Loui that he has these 2 options

 

1/  retire and the club will gift you a scouting position in Sweden, kind of like how Luongo retired and was given an office job in Florida.

2/ sent to utica and ride buses

[-DLC-]

Just now, Screw said:

This was very concerning for me as well.

Hopefully they'll assign refs for our next game.  

[Chris12345]

1 minute ago, Mackcanuck said:

Tell Loui that he has these 2 options

 

1/  retire and the club will gift you a scouting position in Sweden, kind of like how Luongo retired and was given an office job in Florida.

2/ sent to utica and ride buses

2/might not exist. So option 2 means he stays at home and gets paid?

[spook007]

14 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Who cares.  They can trash talk all the way to the airport. I doubt our boys gave a shimmy

Yep the can trash talk the pilot and the stewardess all they like..... on the way home...  

[oldnews]

54 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

STL had a pretty bad showing in Round 1.
 

Not to take anything away from the Canucks, but what happened there?

 

There were entire games where if it wasn’t for the line with #90 on it, STL looked like the Canucks from Game 2 against Vegas, well almost that uninspired anyways. 

I expected much more fight out of that roster. 
They didn’t go down swinging in that last game, like at all. Which is strange for their Team character. 

Has anyone seen an injury report? 
 

I agree - ROR drove the only line that was a real force on that team.

 

I think they took a few steps back, personally.

Bouwmeester is a loss imo (no more than a Myers, but still, a key matchup D for them).   Bozak was a loss - but the writing was on the wall, even with him.  Edmundson was a big deal.  Tarasenko is huge - but so is Toffoli.

 

When I watched them last year - they had only two real vulnerabilities imo.   One was Dunn - who they could effectively shelter with their insane depth everywhere else - and who even though he had weaknesses, also brought upside/threat. 

Pararyko is a huge talent, but he also has his weaknesses.

For me - I don't like the Faulk deal - or the way it changed the makeup of that team.  When I look at them now - there is a vulnerable element on each of their pairings - whereas last year I think they were harder to play against.  And I think that reflects in how over-fluffed their goaltending was - and how exposed it was in this playoffs.  For comparison - most people around here thought Markstrom had no business being considered a successor to the starting role around here.  When you watched him behind our lesser teams of the transition years - not quite as impressive as he is now.   Now we have a healthier, better foundation - and to top that - a group with a lot of talent - varied talent, deep talent - that can score and not only win games that Markstrom isn't his best, but also bend but not break in most games the skaters aren't at their best  - Markstrom tends to be right there to hold the line in turn.

 

I still think St Louis was a great team, even in the form this team knocked off - and what's impressive about that is that this team took comparable losses to key players imo - but has impressive depth, is well-built, is balanced, and has high end players at both ends of the spectrum.  This team has two high end top 6 lines - and two high end shutdown lines - and to an extent those overlap into 3 options both ways - and three centers that can utterly dominate the faceoff circle.   I think it was a full value win - where the Canucks showed that they could dictate the tempo and force St Louis to play at a higher tempo than they were comfortable with.  St Louis could probably ground and pound them in a half court game - but the Canucks were relentless and disciplined enough to force the game into their own strengths.  That was remarkable to watch - to be honest.  I thought the team had the 'foundation' there - but I did not expect Horvat to bust out to quite that extent, and did not expect a rookie Hughes or sophomore Pettersson to be so composed, driven and keep that continuous killer instinct thriving continuously in playoff hockey.

 

The interesting thing about Vegas is that it's an up-tempo vs up-tempo battle - the Canucks have no real choice but to play their puck pressure, puck support, relentless puck hound game - that' is what they need to do to be successful.  And yet, that's Vegas' game.  So it's a really interesting dynamic head to head - which I love to watch.  I think in the end there isn't really any team that is comfortable defending it - so you have no choice but to turn that game on it's head.  Who can get in, forecheck, force the opponent to struggle with exits - and who can support the puck better over 200ft.  It should be a roller coaster battle - but what really surprises me is the Canucks ability to turn it up - that next gear that they have, already.  I think the covid break helped the young guys - who normally would have to pull this off after an already gruelling 82 games = hard to expect.  Day to day I'm not surprised at this point - because  this team when comparably healthy (to their opponents) can compete with anyone - and their youth got to approach the playoffs almost as opening night of a regular season.  I also think these guys - EP, Hughes - have a level of fight and killer instinct that runs deep - and is deceptive/not necessarily detectable if you look at their slight frames or 'soft' appearances.

Edited August 26, 2020 by oldnews

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Dixon Ward said:

More importantly,  clearly to EP himself, is his playoff series winning percentage not his points.  You can clearly see that EP wants to be a winner not a star.  I'm not sure that can be said for Matthews.

Spot on.... some play for themselves and some for the team... I know, who I’d rather have....

[-DLC-]

Stech and Eddie are on 650 doing a presser right now...

 

[thrago]

1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

thats a good comp with the Leaves. Moving Kadri for an inferior C and a UFA d isn't going to get it done. I'm very happy Jim hasn't done a move like that. 

 

The math has been done, Loui really is the guy that has to go. But that is possible. If we can lock up Toffoli for under 6 mil per, which should be more than possible. that might be the best value top 6 in the leage - Miller, Bo, Toffoli, Pearson, Brock all under 6 mil would be excellent value, with Petey still on his ELC. It also makes Petey's next deal more manageable with those solid contracts in place. 

 

My gut feeling is that our 2021 1st is going to be used to move Loui, given how well this group is doing. 

 

If you asked me a month ago about trading a first to move LE I would have been dead set against it.  Now I am completely open to it if it allows us to keep Tanev, Marky, Tofu and possibly JV.  I really like the team and the chemistry we are building here.  This team plays hard for each other.  

[DrJockitch]

17 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Even the perceived 'costs' of Sutter and Gudbranson - imo are overblown.

Kesler, Bonino, Sutter

Kesler, McCann, Gudbranson, Pearson.

Offshoots of retooling with a rapidly declining Kesler - and flipping a few of those principals for pieces that are still part of this franchise.

More directly - Bonino was good player - liked him a lot - helped Pitt win - walked - signed a 16 million deal.  Sutter, imo plays a very significant role in this team's present playoff success.

McCann - not really all that - in the scheme of things I think Pearson - the return on Gudbranson (viewed here as "cost" alone) is a greater need - provides someone that brings elements that help this team win.

 

Short of J.T. Miller, the Guddy for Pearson trade is probably JB’s best (well maybe Motte).
Now that statement really more reflects my low opinion of Guddy and how decent Pearson has been for us after playing terribly for Pits. 
McCann is a decent player as is Bonino but what Guddy was supposed to bring was a more pressing need at the time. 
One of my early criticisms of Benning was that every year he was too influenced by who won the cup last. When LA wins he suddenly wants bigger and tougher and trades for Guddy, when Pits or Chi wins he thinks we need to build a fast skilled team and looks at players like Gagner (Ugh). 
Finally he is doing what IMO should be done, he found his stars in Quinn and Elias and is building a team around their style.  This is a very different team than needed to be built around the Sedin’s where players like Sutter and Guddy made more sense (they just underperformed dramatically). 
Too cold for jump in lake. Damn this inconsistent weather. 

[cuporbust]

7 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yep the can trash talk the pilot and the stewardess all they like..... on the way home...  

If game one trash talk didnt effect them (which obviously didnt), game two trash talk is probably going to have the same effect. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by cuporbust

[FireGillis]

If Marchessault starts any yapping and the canucks don't tell him to suck on his mom's titties and to stop wasting their time, I'll be disappointed!  I imagine Roussel is going to have a field day! 

[spook007]

55 minutes ago, Blaze04 said:

A work day but got up to watch the game LIVE with the wife again, Canucks hockey is addictive. What a pushback by the TEAM. Everyone contributing and Roussel behaving lol. This teams strength is the dressing room and how together they are. What a team like that! I wonder what Drew thinks of our performance. 

 

We we have to use our speed and relentless chasing down to beat these and all the lines contributing. Don’t engage emotionally with them, keep them flat and frustrated. 

Cheers Blaze. 

Same here. Its tough to get up, but I can’t even sleep for excitement. 
And to get a positive result makes it even better. 
Loved the tenacity shown. When they up the speed like yesterday, most team will struggle to cope. When you’re on top you need to score and Canucks did that yesterday. 
Really look forward to tomorrow. We definitely turned into the wild card in this tournament. 

[DrJockitch]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

 

The interesting thing about Vegas is that it's an up-tempo vs up-tempo battle - the Canucks have no real choice but to play their puck pressure, puck support, relentless puck hound game - that' is what they need to do to be successful.  And yet, that's Vegas' game.  So it's a really interesting dynamic head to head - which I love to watch.  I think in the end there isn't really any team that is comfortable defending it - so you have no choice but to turn that game on it's head.  Who can get in, forecheck, force the opponent to struggle with exits - and who can support the puck better over 200ft.  It should be a roller coaster battle - but what really surprises me is the Canucks ability to turn it up - that next gear that they have, already.  I think the covid break helped the young guys - who normally would have to pull this off after an already gruelling 82 games = hard to expect.  Day to day I'm not surprised at this point - because  this team when comparably healthy (to their opponents) can compete with anyone - and their youth got to approach the playoffs almost as opening night of a regular season.

Their style is fun. High volume shooting so I don’t read too much into shot counts. 
they were exposed in the finals.  Their incredibly aggressive forecheck was shown to be very vulnerable to putting the puck deep and back pressure and to the lob pass. I think it is great that they got burned by the lob pass and then incorporated it into their game, that is good coaching. The Canuck’s used the Washington playbook last game and it worked. 

[-DLC-]

Travis Green up now on 650....

 

 

[-DLC-]

7 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

If Marchessault starts any yapping and the canucks don't tell him to suck on his mom's titties and to stop wasting their time, I'll be disappointed!  I imagine Roussel is going to have a field day! 

I'd honestly rather they don't get caught up in that.  Maybe some subtle "reminders"...but not the jawing at the bench stuff that pulls the focus away from where it needs to be.  Let it be his issue, not ours.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

Short of J.T. Miller, the Guddy for Pearson trade is probably JB’s best (well maybe Motte).
Now that statement really more reflects my low opinion of Guddy and how decent Pearson has been for us after playing terribly for Pits. 
McCann is a decent player as is Bonino but what Guddy was supposed to bring was a more pressing need at the time. 
One of my early criticisms of Benning was that every year he was too influenced by who won the cup last. When LA wins he suddenly wants bigger and tougher and trades for Guddy, when Pits or Chi wins he thinks we need to build a fast skilled team and looks at players like Gagner (Ugh). 
Finally he is doing what IMO should be done, he found his stars in Quinn and Elias and is building a team around their style.  This is a very different team than needed to be built around the Sedin’s where players like Sutter and Guddy made more sense (they just underperformed dramatically). 
Too cold for jump in lake. Damn this inconsistent weather. 

I don't see a difference - at all in how the team is built - in fact I see continuity in a lot of elements - the same 'Canucks' hockey.

The Sedin erar - had and needed it's Malhotra/Hansen/Higgins/Lappy shutdown bottom six - as 'foundation' beneath the Sedins - to provide them the opportunity/high% of ozone starts - situations in which to be consistently successful.  The Beagle and Sutter lines provide the same - for EP - who like the Sedins, enjoys tilted, highly opportune, high ozone start opportunities to succeed.  Sutter types are still needed, every bit as much, if not moreso. 

However, this version of the team has not only Sutter and Beagle, but Horvat and Miller - they are actually heavier and deeper down the middle than in the Sedin era - and while Burrows was a good complementary winger to those two - this team is loaded with options - Miller enabling EP not to be exposed at center ice - Toffoli and Pearson prototypical playoff wingers - Horvat a third capable matchup center who can also produce, particularly when he's freed up to do so - which is the case when both Beagle and Sutter are healthy and rolling.

I see this as a continuous build towards this team - not a case of players that made sense in the past but not for this incarnation.

They always needed a bit more heaviness in their forward group - not an easy task though - and not easy in the trade market to find the likes of Miller, Pearson, Toffoli - those are some very good, opportune additions.   So was signing Beagle -when most people saw little sense in it.  As good as Hughes and EP are - things could be a lot worse - for example if they'd stepped into a teardown and thrown out there into a Coiler-esque context - they might not be winning Calder trophies - or playoff series - certainly not this soon.   Those lottery franchises were reportedly so far ahead of this one - and yet - ironically - it's the 'foundation' here that truly makes the difference - and I think this franchise has had a good eye for 'foundation' - at least since the AV/Gillis years, and I'd argue it's continuous to the present, and a real strength of the organization.